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From: Ally Pike <ally_at_thepikes.org>
subject: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:39:07 -0400
I will be going on a week long kayaking trip along the Maine Cost in a few
weeks and have been spending the 2 months researching GPS Units and see that
there are many mixed reviews on almost all of the handheld units.

I would love to hear about the GPS units that some of you use and what you
love and hate about it.

Thanks,
*Ally

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From: Bob Denton <bdenton_at_soytek.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:19:22 -0400
For me the features of downloadable topo maps, and being "water proof"
are essential features. I have a Garmin 12MAP for kayaking and will
probably replace it with the successor to the 76 MAP.

Cya

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From: <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:54:00 -0400
Would recommend avoiding the eTrex by Garmin.  It's relatively inexpensive, and it is claimed to be waterproof, but Garmin is talking only of the receiver and not of the battery compartment --- which will flood and short out in a heavy fog!  And they know and acknowledge that!  But they still claim it's waterproof.

Garmin has good products, but the eTrex is one to avoid.

Jack Martin
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From: <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:18:47 -0400
> Would recommend avoiding the eTrex by Garmin.  It's relatively
> inexpensive, and it is claimed to be waterproof, but Garmin is talking
> only of the receiver and not of the battery compartment --- which will
> flood and short out in a heavy fog!  And they know and acknowledge
that!
> But they still claim it's waterproof.
> 
> Garmin has good products, but the eTrex is one to avoid.

Jack makes some valid points, and I won't attempt to dispute them, but
there's always other things to consider.

With that said, here's the opposite side of the coin.  First, bear in
mind that while it may or may not be a consensus on this forum, it's at
minimum highly suggested by quite a number of people that all so called
"waterproof" or "water resistant" electronics be contained within a
waterproof pouch... REGARDLESS.  So, you can spend significant bucks on
a truly waterproof item, or $30 on a waterproof pouch (just make sure
the pouch is truly waterproof).

Second, I bought a used Etrex, from a fellow P'Wiser a couple years ago.
It's been wet and still works fine.  Higher end models with mapping
capabilities are "neat" and many find them very useful, but the etrex,
as a back up to manual navigation, does everything I want it to do.
And, when not navigating (generally the case) I use it to measure speed,
miles traveled, time on the water, etc., and it does a very good job of
it.

Point being, the Etrex is clearly on the low end of the GPS scale.....
so what.  If it does the things that you need it to do - no more, no
less - then it's a "quality" item because it satisfies your specific
needs.  Just be sure that you have clearly defined your needs.

Rick - Poquoson, VA
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From: Al Vazquez <alvazquez_at_kayakguide.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:53:40 -0400
Ally,

I've had my Garmin 12 XL since it first came out several years ago and 
I still love it. It's reasonably compact and had a reasonably large 
screen with adjustable contrast. Make sure the one you buy has 
adjustable contrast as this is especially important if you use it over 
a wide range of temperatures.

The waterproofing is very good, though I still normally use it in 
transparent-front, padded floating miniature dry bag just in case. When 
it was NOT in the case once, I dropped in in the Raritan Canal and had 
to forage for it on the very muddy bottom about arm length depth for a 
good 5 minutes (great fun). It just had a tiny drop of water in the 
battery compartment when I got it out. It still worked fine.

It's very intuitive and easy to use. It lacks the optional map modules 
that the newer models have. And when I use it under a heavy canopy tree 
canopy, it sometimes understates the logged distance traveled. 
Generally though, I've been very happy with it.

I love it and never paddle without it and I consider it a critical item 
  for navigation and safety.

Al Vazquez
KayakGuide.com
- Places to Paddle -

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 10:39 AM, Ally Pike wrote:

> I would love to hear about the GPS units that some of you use and what 
> you
> love and hate about it.
>
> Thanks,
> *Ally
>
KayakGuide.com
- Places to Paddle -

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From: Joseph Pylka <jpylka_at_earthlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:23:01 -0400
> [Original Message]
> From: Al Vazquez <alvazquez_at_kayakguide.com>
> -- I dropped in in the Raritan Canal and had 
> to forage for it on the very muddy bottom about arm length depth for a 
> good 5 minutes (great fun). 
> It's very intuitive and easy to use. It lacks the optional map modules 
> that the newer models have. And when I use it under a heavy canopy tree 
> canopy, it sometimes understates the logged distance traveled. 
> Generally though, I've been very happy with it.
>
	I'll second the recommendation for the Garmin 12.  I still use mine a
lot...  I now also use a Garmin 72, which is a thinned-down version of the
76. No map capability (partly why it's cheaper) but other useful features. 
The 76 (and the 72) is presumably waterproof. They went to some effort to
gasket off the battery compartment.  I haven't dropped it in the D&R Canal
yet, but it could happen....
	WRT to that, the 72 uses 2 instead of 4 batteries and they seem to last
longer than in the 12 (which is pretty good in that department). As
mentioned above, it is considered waterproof, AND it floats!  
	Also, I haven't tried uploading Mapsource stuff to it so I don't know how
well that works, but it does have the USA tide tables included in it, and
at least for places in NJ it's pretty accurate...
	Joe P.


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From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:59:32 -0400
I'll second the idea of the waterproof pouch but throw in one caveat.  A 
friend of received the wonderful gift of one of the Garmin mapping units. 
The problem is that it has a little joystick as its primary interface. Put one 
of these into a pouch and you run into problems. On the Garmin unit the 
joystick can also be depressed as the "enter" button so that in addition 
to moving constantly it was always selecting things. 

You could solve this by getting one of those small dry boxes but then 
you'd have to open it to control the unit. You could also put some foam 
(like a foot corn pad) or something around the joystick so that the bag is 
lifted away from the joystick. 

-Patick (still using the old Garmin 48 with the marine database)
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From: Kees van der Meij <keesvdm_at_xs4all.nl>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:01:34 +0200
"Patrick Maun" wrote:

> I'll second the idea of the waterproof pouch but throw in one caveat.
> A friend of received the wonderful gift of one of the Garmin mapping
> units.
> The problem is that it has a little joystick as its primary
> interface. Put one of these into a pouch and you run into problems.
> On the Garmin unit the joystick can also be depressed as the "enter"
> button so that in addition
> to moving constantly it was always selecting things.

That's one of the strong points of the 76S, it can be operated without
problems while in a waterproof bag. I've used both the eTrex Vista and the
76S, and now only use the 76S while paddling. The Vista is used on dry land
(cycling and walking).
(I also have a GPS-V for in my car, b.t.w., and still own a 12XL and a
GPS-III. yes, I admit I'm a GPS freak)

regards and don't get lost,

    Kees

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From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:17:24 -0700
Handhelds are not intended for map viewing, even though many have built-in
map and uploading capabilities.  Display is too small, and you need to
scroll up/down/left/right to see anything except for tiny fraction of the
map. Text labels of cities, ports, roads etc also could be too small for
many people especially in poor light conditions.  Absolutely necessary is to
carry a normal paper map and compass in addition to handheld GPS (even
though some models have electronic compass).  I have Garmin Legend -
built-in map, map uploading capability, no compass. It failed me once in an
open area with 100% sky visibility 5 km off shore, - said it could not see
any satellites (out of regular 10), but it happened just once.  2 hours
later on campsite it showed my location all right.  Battery life is a
serious problem for many hadnheld units.  Manufacturer's time is either
overstated or quoted for long-life batteries AND with compass and other
fancy options "off".  Rechargeable batteries will last about 30-50%
shorter.  Water-resistance of my Legend is OK,  - it was immersed once.
Alex.


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ally Pike" <ally_at_thepikes.org>
> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>
> Sent: July 23, 2003 7:39 AM
> Subject: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
>
>
> > I will be going on a week long kayaking trip along the Maine Cost in a
few
> > weeks and have been spending the 2 months researching GPS Units and see
> that
> > there are many mixed reviews on almost all of the handheld units.
> >
> > I would love to hear about the GPS units that some of you use and what
you
> > love and hate about it.
>
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From: Mary Zuschlag <mzuschlag_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] GPS unit
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:24:46 -0700
I just had to replace my GPS unit and I opted for a Magellan Meridian.  I
like the map feature and the reason I chose it over Garmin was the SD
storage card capability.  I purchased a card reader for it which allows me
to download maps at USB speeds.  I have the Mapsend topo software which is
extremely accurate in my area, but I have heard that is not true everywhere.
Their trail information is limited, but I like it for my whitewater boating
because it has some rapids and even campsites.   Garmin has a better
interface, but they don't have a unit with storage card memory accept for
the PDA combo, which makes me nervous from a battery life perspective. The
Garmin Emap GPS has storage card memory but the storage is really expensive,
non standard, and it is not very water proof (IPX2).  The Meridian is
"waterproof" to IPX 7 and it floats but I still use a soft case.
Downloading maps are a breeze and only take a couple minutes. The Bluewater
software maps Magellan sells is really bad.  Bluewater software allows you
can to upload one small chart at a time and you can only have 1 map on a
storage card.  If your heart is set on Bluewater maps Garmin is a better way
to go. Hopefully Magellan will clean up their Bluewater issues.  I bought
the Marine version and the Marine database is pretty good.  I really like my
Meridian and I really like the map feature.  If you want to read about it
from a user's perspective take a look at this group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Magellan_Meridian/
They have some great hacks in their FAQ section, including one that will
change the splash screen to your name and address.  Good luck with your
choice.  -- MZ

visit my website:
http://www.mzuschlag.com
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