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From: <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il>
subject: [Paddlewise] Serious Paddle Length Advice?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:52:52 +0300
Howdy Fellow Paddlers:

I'm aware that there are only general guidelines for paddle length. By now 
I've been paddling for four years with a paddle that is 218 centimeters long 
(Lendal Archipelago, modified crank shaft, 45 degree feather; I paddle an NDK 
Explorer, and think I tend to have a rather high stroke, with top arm pushing 
at about eye-level; I am generally considered a slow paddler, although my club 
is one of the fastest in the world, believe me...).  This paddle was with a 
variable joint, so I was able to experiment with lengths that were longer as 
well.

I became very comfortable with the length of 218 and 1/2 (although I have not 
tried shorter ones).  Now, as we all know, the fashion has been towards 
shorter paddles, with a lot of paddlers using 212-216.  My teachers here have 
been encouraging me to go down to this length range, but I have my doubts.  
First, I have a very short torso, and I think the longer paddle is better for 
me.  At 218, with my arm over my head, my middle finger extends to about 2 
inches past the paddle.  I am 5' 7.5" tall.

On the other hand, maybe a shorter paddle would increase my speed...

I feel like I'm asking for a diagnosis from a group of top-flight physicians!  
Are there any instructors or experienced paddlers out there who would like to 
offer me some advice on the correct paddle length?

See you on the water!

Josh
(In Israel, where the Med. is still 29 degrees [centigrade, that is])



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From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Serious Paddle Length Advice?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:48:09 -0400
On 22 Sep 2003 at 7:52, teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il wrote:

> My teachers here have been encouraging me to go down to this length
> range, but I have my doubts.  First, I have a very short torso, and I
> think the longer paddle is better for me.  At 218, with my arm over my
> head, my middle finger extends to about 2 inches past the paddle.  I
> am 5' 7.5" tall.
> 
> On the other hand, maybe a shorter paddle would increase my speed...

First thing - I doubt that changing the paddle length will have any 
serious effect on your speed.  

The 218 sounds a tad long compared to what I use (220) and I'm a bit 
taller than you (5'11").  I'd been considering going down to 215 but 
I mostly use a Greenland-style paddle, so that's not an issue now.

I could see you using a 215 or even a bit shorter. Rather than try to 
convince you of any advantages (I'm not sure they are significant, 
but rather slight comfort and fatigue issues), I'd say borrow paddles 
in that are shorter and see what you think.  Your personal 
experiences would beat any opinions I hold.

Mike

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From: Carey Parks <cparks_at_fuse.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Serious Paddle Length Advice?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:39:47 -0400
Hi Josh,

I too am wondering about paddle length. I'm finding that I am quite happy
paddling real vertical when I want to make speed. I like the feel of the
paddle tight against the hull (not rubbing but really close.) When I get
vertical, either my bottom hand drags along the deck or dips in the water or
my off-side hand is at eye level or higher, which feels too high.  One
solution is to hold the paddle closer to the middle, but then the paddle
spends a lot of time in the catch and release phases. When I move my hands
closer the "feel" of the stroke is better, but I don't think it's as
efficient because the paddle is too deep and there's too much leverage
(higher gearing.)  And the drip rings are submerged, which introduces water
to the cockpit.

There might be other issues when paddling in shallow creeks with a short
paddle and I can't reach the water with a flat stroke. Also, sweep strokes
and rolls might have less purchase with a shorter paddle, but this effect
would likely be marginal.

Perhaps I will carry paddles of two different lengths, since I believe in
carrying a spare anyway. Then, if I'm paddling into the wind and chop and
want to really dig in, I'll choose the shorter paddle, and when appropriate
the longer one.

Here's something else I've noticed. I have a Werner with dihedral and a
Pacific Designs with a one-dimension curve "spoon" shape. When I paddle at
less than "full power" they feel roughly the same, the release on the Werner
being a little bit better. But when I want to put some oomph into the power
phase, the dihedral of the Werner seems to dump the water and allow the
paddle to pass thru the water while the Pacific Designs feels like it grabs
the water and lets me pull against it more solidly.

>>" 45 degree feather;'  Regarding 45 degrees, I read somewhere that
anything less than 60 degrees tends to fly around when you paddle into much
wind. Perhaps others can comment.

I'm just beginning to paddle, so I could be way off on all this, and welcome
any input from the sages on the list. No point learning bad habits!

Cheers,

Carey



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From: Ed DeBee <edebee_at_ev1.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Serious Paddle Length Advice?
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:59:09 -0500
In recent tests I've made paddling my Carbon/Kevlar QCC 700, I observed 
the following:

Conditions:

1. Flatwater lake
2. Light Winds

Paddles Tested:

1. Mitchell 200 cm Sea Blade, one piece, 60 deg. feather.
2. Mitchell 215 cm Black Magic, one piece, 60 deg. feather

Measuring Equipment:

SpeedMate II

Results:

1: Padding speed held between 4.8 and 5.0 mph.
2: Mitchell Sea Blade required 640 strokes per mile
3. Mitchell Black Magic required 600 strokes per mile.

Notes:

1. When I began paddling (about 4 years ago) I used about 1,000 strokes 
per mile in boats having a little more drag obviously.

2. After buying the QCC 700 and the Brent Reitz "Forward Stroke Clinic" 
video and spending lots of time working on my forward stroke, I decreased 
the strokes per mile to 750.

3. After buying my Futura Inferno Surfski and working even harder on the 
forward stroke, I've achieved the results above.

4. My paddling habits include paddling between 100 and 120 miles per 
month with the average workout being 8 to 12 miles.

5. Estimate of honest, long distance, cruise speeds for the three hulls I 
paddle:

VCP Avocet - 4 mph
QCC 700 - 5 mph
Futura Inferno - 6 mph

Pushing beyond these speeds with no tailwind decreases the number of 
miles I enjoy the work.  For instance, in no wind I do a 16 mile, non-
stop, workout on the surfski averaging 6 mph.  On that same course 
holding a speed of 6.5 to 7.0 mph would put me on the borderline of an 
aerobic condition (something I reserve for racing.)

6. The shorter length and larger blade surface of the Black Magic has 
forced me into a more vertical stroke and I've noticed I tend to use more 
upper arm push with the Black Magic than with the Sea Blade.

7. I have not tested my Epic mid sized all carbon wing paddle against the 
two paddles mentioned above.  I use the wing for racing and since I love 
to roll a lot, the Euro blades are more fun.  I guess I'll have to break 
out the wing and measure the strokes per mile.

8.  I've also noticed that when paddling against a head wind I seem to 
get a little better speed by submerging the paddle blade an inch or two 
deeper and use a slower stroke.  Maybe the surface water is moving 
downwind and by "digging in deeper" I get down to more non-moving water. 
This is just a theory.

9. Also, not having tight thigh pads in the QCC 700 and actually sliding 
my hips forward and back with the torso rotation has added to the 
efficiency of the forward stroke and gives me higher speed by about 0.2 
mph than by using only torso rotation.

I don't know if any of this helps and if it is only in my mind, I enjoy 
being able to clip off a mile with about 300 to 400 less strokes than 
when I picked up my first kayak paddle.

Ed DeBee
Austin, TX
http://users3.ev1.net/~edebee/

> Howdy Fellow Paddlers:
> 
> I'm aware that there are only general guidelines for paddle length. By now
> I've been paddling for four years with a paddle that is 218 centimeters
> long (Lendal Archipelago, modified crank shaft, 45 degree feather; I
> paddle an NDK Explorer, and think I tend to have a rather high stroke,
> with top arm pushing at about eye-level; I am generally considered a slow
> paddler, although my club is one of the fastest in the world, believe
> me...).  This paddle was with a variable joint, so I was able to
> experiment with lengths that were longer as well.
> 
> I became very comfortable with the length of 218 and 1/2 (although I have
> not tried shorter ones).  Now, as we all know, the fashion has been
> towards shorter paddles, with a lot of paddlers using 212-216.  My
> teachers here have been encouraging me to go down to this length range,
> but I have my doubts.  First, I have a very short torso, and I think the
> longer paddle is better for me.  At 218, with my arm over my head, my
> middle finger extends to about 2 inches past the paddle.  I am 5' 7.5"
> tall.
> 
> On the other hand, maybe a shorter paddle would increase my speed...
> 
> I feel like I'm asking for a diagnosis from a group of top-flight
> physicians!  Are there any instructors or experienced paddlers out there
> who would like to offer me some advice on the correct paddle length?
> 
> See you on the water!
> 
> Josh
> (In Israel, where the Med. is still 29 degrees [centigrade, that is])
> 
> 
> 
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> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
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> * PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
> here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
> responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
> Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions:  
> PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website:        
> http://www.paddlewise.net/
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> *
> 
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