In a message dated 8/10/2004 8:24:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au writes: > Copying earlier designs and building is the way a lot of > kayaks have come to be what they are now. The Nordkapp was modelled on a > Greenland boat in a museum. Frank Goodman makes the Nordkapp in the UK, > around 1977. The design is made under royalty in New Zealand by Sisson > kayaks. Noel Sisson designs the Arctic Raider, described as larger and > faster, but unmistakably derived from the Nordkapp. The AR arrives in > Australia, and Canoe Sports makes an Arctic Raider, which influences further > boats based on the same general hull shape, Southern Raider, Ocean Raider, > and Raider-X, this last being a longer boat, and is currently fairly > popular: one was used in the first non-stop crossing of Bass Strait by > Andrew Macauley. Do you think the Raider X is a copy of the original museum > boat which inspired the Nordkapp? Are royalties due to the Greenlander who > made the museum boat? Is this a chain based on a ripoff, with more along the > way? There are many lines of boat development: another one leads from the > Icefloe > to the Pittarak in Australia. See the story on > http://www.pittarak.com.au/news.html and go to "Pittarak, the Story". In > fact, would kayaks designed by engineers and naval architects be in a small > minority? > The more I think about the issues raised in this hull copying business, the > wider it gets. > The Ken Taylor kayak from Igldorssuit Greenland (1959) was the prototype for the substantially modified Anas Acuta. Mr Goodman bought the design. He altered that even for expedition purposes (Nordkapp Expedition) and the Nordkapp was born. The Pintail followed to improve on the playful aspects of the Anas Acuta. 3 kayaks from one SOF. Pretty darn good. Am quite glad Mr Taylor went to Greenland. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com> > > . Do you think the Raider X is a copy of the original museum > > boat which inspired the Nordkapp? Are royalties due to the Greenlander who > > made the museum boat? Is this a chain based on a ripoff, with more along the > > way? There are many lines of boat development: another one leads from the > > Icefloe Rob writes: > The Ken Taylor kayak from Igldorssuit Greenland (1959) was the prototype for > the substantially modified Anas Acuta. Mr Goodman bought the design. He > altered that even for expedition purposes (Nordkapp Expedition) and the Nordkapp was > born. The Pintail followed to improve on the playful aspects of the Anas > Acuta. 3 kayaks from one SOF. Pretty darn good. Am quite glad Mr Taylor went to > Greenland. > Rob G helo all. I am new to the list. This bit may be of interest in so far as it applies to the herritage of the Annas and most other commercialy produced kayaks. You may send your royalty checks to Emanuele Kornielsen. He built the original Ken Taylor kayak that Duncan Winning made the drawing from that begot the Anas, and I take it he is still alive. http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/GreenlandTechniqueForum_config.pl/read/18456 best regards: Michael Silvius Scarborough, Maine. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/10/2004 11:50:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, M.Silvius_at_worldnet.att.net writes: > I am new to the list. > This bit may be of interest in so far as it applies to the herritage of the > Annas and most other commercialy produced kayaks. You may send your royalty > checks to Emanuele Kornielsen. > He built the original Ken Taylor kayak that Duncan Winning made the drawing > from that begot the Anas, and I take it he is still alive. > http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/GreenlandTechniqueForum_config.pl/read/18456 > best regards: > Good to see you on PW Michael. With QajaqUSA's resources in Greenland I wonder if Mr Kornielsen knows how many kayak's his boat has spawned? I also wonder if he agrees with the royalties sentiments. Mr Taylor is still alive and well having discussed the issue with us on QajaqUSA. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paddlewisers, With all this legal talk about about copying, I'm wondering if we should start paying the Greenlanders and Aleutians royalties for all of our kayak designs :^)). Duane Strosaker Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"The Ken Taylor kayak from Igldorssuit Greenland (1959) was the prototype for the substantially modified Anas Acuta. Mr Goodman bought the design. He altered that even for expedition purposes (Nordkapp Expedition) and the Nordkapp was born. The Pintail followed to improve on the playful aspects of the Anas Acuta. 3 kayaks from one SOF. Pretty darn good. Am quite glad Mr Taylor went to Greenland." Thanks for this correction to the story, which still serves the point, there are chains of boat designs and at various points in the chain, unauthorised copies are made. How many other kayak development chains are there, and how many include some dubious copying? I wondered when looking at the cut down Seguin posted recently, whether the Seguin's designer received another royalty for his boat design when it was lowered by 3.5 inches. Should he? Is that a new boat shape for which the Seguin's designer and the new boat maker share any rights? BTW, I am not arguing against getting permission before copying. Anyone interested in a digital image of the Nadgee keel, I have one which can be sent on request. Cheers, PT *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Treby" <ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au> > How many other kayak development chains are there, and how many include some > dubious copying? I wondered when looking at the cut down Seguin posted > recently, whether the Seguin's designer received another royalty for his > boat design when it was lowered by 3.5 inches. Should he? Is that a new boat > shape for which the Seguin's designer and the new boat maker share any > rights? Peter: Well as the author of the "Chopped Seguin" I can vouch that Rob Briant was payed his 100 $ for the plans. I have only bult one "Seguin" I built the boat 5 yrs ago only 2 weeks ago I attacked it w/ the skillsaw. http://community.webshots.com/user/qajaliorqti the hull is a per-plans built Seguin only cut and lowered for a tighter more traditional fit. The yellow Chupacabras (see album) was built using a kit that I cut originally to the Seguin design, but after playing w/ the Carlson Design Hulls program I totally re-cut and really retains little of the original. michael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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