Hi All- > Group Crossing Procedures > > Maintaining a group effort on a crossing is difficult... I am involved with guiding The Great Hudson River Paddle, where we have up to 36 boats making the trip from Albany to NYC. In our orientation paddle, we always practice crossings to keep a tight group going across. We tend to take the chorus line approach. Once we were eating lunch on a beach just north of Athens when a group of about 100 geese were parading down to the water. They lined up abreast of each other, the first waiting for the last to get set in the formation then they did a perfect chorus line across the channel! We learned something that day...if geese can do it, why do humans have such a tough time? Jack Gilman ===== * Check out the Yonkers Paddling & Rowing Club online at www.yprc.org. ---------------------------------------------- See you on the river! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (including headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] Duane, Thanks for the post. I find the psychology of group paddling fascinating; perhaps this is because of the inherent conflict in adapting a highly individualistic pastime, seakayaking, to the group necessity of individuals' co-operating in the interests of safety of the group as a whole. I guess we could say that the Inuit perfected 'group crossing' principles a long time ago on their hunting expeditions; [ but I am not an Inuit, nor a psychologist!]. In our modern context I guess my comment on your procedures would be fulsome agreement on your very first point; maintaining group disciplines is difficult; and this can be as much a problem with a group of experienced kayakers as with novices. Over the years I have found that even in club paddles where the OBJECT of a paddle was to practise group skills, the whole thing basically falls apart on the water. Why? My opinion for what its worth, is that 'group think' is alien to the thought processes of individuals who are attracted to seakayaking in the first place. Western societies reward individualism, and this is reflected in on-water behaviour, with people 'doing their own thing'. It takes a hard, conscious, fulltime effort on the part of all participants to adapt to a group strategy, especially in a civilian environment. As a reflection of my status and background as 'grumpy ol' man' my solution is naturally to adopt the proven old saw that there is no such thing as democracy at sea. The captain is the captain is the captain. Again, and this especially occurs with kayakers of similar experience, this can require individuals to submerge their egos, [excuse the pun!] in the interests of a single group leader. My other comment would be on your last point: Is a 'group' worth the effort? Do you launch off a beach as a 'group' and decide later to 'relax' into a buddy system? What is a group? Do we launch as a bunch of buddies, with the proviso discussed beforehand on the beach, that if things get interesting at sea we can fall back on an already agreed upon group hierarchy? That can be hard to achieve with kayaks scattered out to the horizon... You won't get many in my club to admit it, but the last scenario is the one that happens most times; and with varying adventurous results over the years. But we haven't lost anyone yet...yet..... Regards, Peter Rattenbury, Wollongong, Australia -- original message From: Duane Strosaker Paddlewisers, In the paddling tips section of my website, I added group crossing procedures at http://www.rollordrown.com/tips/cross.html These group crossing procedures are also provided below. Feedback is welcome. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/21/2004 2:30:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, strosaker_at_yahoo.com writes: > Group Crossing Procedures > > Maintaining a group effort on a crossing is difficult. Over the years I have > developed these group crossing procedures in an attempt to make things > easier on the trips I have organized. > > Taking and Following Point > > To maximize everyone's contribution on a crossing, each paddler takes > rotating one-hour shifts to steer by compass and set the pace. This position is > called point. It is important for the other paddlers who are not on point to > follow in the area behind the point's stern, so the point is free to steer the > course and set the pace. Is there still an overall leader or is the point become the leader? The next subject seems to indicate there is a point position and a leader. > > Setting the Pace > > With the point setting the pace, it is important for him or her to look back > every couple of minutes to check on each paddler. Generally, if a paddler is > farther back than 100 yards, the point's pace is too fast, and if all of the > paddlers are right behind the point's stern, his or her pace is too slow. > > Concerns > > If anyone is concerned about the point's navigation or pace, they should > inform me rather than the point, and if necessary, I will address the problem. > The reason for this procedure is that having several different people > correcting the point can cause him or her to become aggravated. GPS or not, if someone makes tick marks with a grease pencil over the course of travel on the chart you will have an approximate last known position. If there are significant currents than planning the crossing with vectors in mind is suggested. I like the fact that it is expected of people to have a compass on deck. > > Watching for Traffic > > With the point busy steering by compass and monitoring the group pace, it is > the responsibility of the other paddlers in the group to watch for ship and > boat traffic. Sometimes it is not the best course to follow given your destination, but crossing a shipping lane at 90 degrees minimizes the exposure. Is there a VHF aboard to hail an incoming freighter? > > Breaks > > At the top of each hour is a five-minute break to drink, eat and pee, and at > the bottom of each hour is a one-minute break to drink. However, anyone can > call for an additional break when necessary. It is important to take breaks > this frequently to stay well hydrated and fueled. These breaks may seem > regimented, but on a long paddle it is good for everyone to know when the next > break is going to be. > > Coastal Paddles > > Similar procedures can be used for group efforts on coastal paddles. > However, instead of steering by compass, the point usually follows a general path, > such as hugging the coast or paddling point to point. I think someone ticking off the last known major coastal feature is worthwhile. Do all have charts or topos? Is there an established course? Was there a discussion beforehand of go and no go areas? > > Is the Group Worth the Effort? > > One of the most important things to know is whether maintaining a group is > worth the effort. If conditions are remaining calm and everyone is doing well, > the effort to maintain the group may only cause aggravation. In that case, > everyone will be a lot happier on their own or paired up with a buddy. The > effort to maintain a group is only worthwhile when everyone perceives a mutual > benefit from it. > I think it's worthwhile if the risks go up. Lots of people run through rock gardens or caves where the risks inherently increase, even in otherwise calm conditions. Solo or duo paddlers have fewer resources than groups. I think I violate this one more than anything. Nice work on your website! Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rob and All, --- Rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote: > Is there still an overall leader or is the > point become the leader? The next > subject seems to indicate there is a point > position and a leader. On trips I organize, I am the leader, but I try to let the group lead itself as much as possible, which is a goal I have with the crossing procedures. > I like the fact that it is > expected of people to have a compass > on deck. Not everyone has to take a point. Some paddlers can't see a compass well or are not comfortable steering by compass. But it sure helps when everyone can help with a shift. That one-hour shift is a lot of work, and it is nice to just relax and paddle while someone else is taking point. Crossings in So Cal are usually around 20 NM, and as short as 11 and as long as 40. > Sometimes it is not the best course to follow > given your destination, but > crossing a shipping lane at 90 degrees > minimizes the exposure. Is there a VHF > aboard to hail an incoming freighter? To tell the truth, I ignore shipping lanes in So Cal. A large ship couldn't hit me if it tried (I'll probably get raked for this one). A boat could, though. I'm not going to waste time and mileage crossing shipping lanes perpendicular. But I'm always on the lookout for ships and boats. The boats scare a lot more than the large ships. I also think it is better to avoid being hit by ships by paddling rather than using VHF. > I think someone ticking off the last known > major coastal feature is > worthwhile. Do all have charts or topos? Is > there an established course? Was there a > discussion beforehand of go and no go areas? My crossing procedures don't include everything, because I don't have time to write a whole book. They are just a brief list a ways for a group to try to stay organized on a crossing. When people are new to going on trips with me, I can refer them to the guidelines so they know what to expect and what to do. > I think it's worthwhile if the risks go up. > Lots of people run through rock > gardens or caves where the risks inherently > increase, even in otherwise calm > conditions. Solo or duo paddlers have fewer > resources than groups. I think I > violate this one more than anything. If a group is willing to stay together, that is great, but when it falls apart, that is fine. I am perfectly fine with everyone taking their own risks. My nickname isn't "Darwin" for nothing. Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/22/2004 1:42:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sh_at_actglobal.net writes: > Marking your position on a chart by ded reckoning > is an impossibility. After you are about 2 miles off shore, you won't see > enough detail for ranges behind you and you probably can't even see your > destination. > Ded reckoning is not just visual determination of position, it also may include time as an element, "by which a boats approximate location is determined at any time by its movements since the last accurate determination of position." (Chapman Piloting) If one has a reasonable understanding of group speed (say 3 knots), and marks off a 3 mile section at a break at the top of the hour, one will have an approximate position. No, not exact, but approximate. In vector navigation, where significant current requires an approximate ferry angle to help offset current strength and direction, will result in paddling a course line with hourly changes in bearing throughout the crossing. The reason this method is preferred by some, over other methods, is it enables an approximate position to be known. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/22/2004 2:42:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, strosaker_at_yahoo.com writes: > To tell the truth, I ignore shipping lanes in So > Cal. A large ship couldn't hit me if it tried > (I'll probably get raked for this one). A boat > could, though. I'm not going to waste time and > mileage crossing shipping lanes perpendicular. > But I'm always on the lookout for ships and > boats. The boats scare a lot more than the large > ships. I also think it is better to avoid being > hit by ships by paddling rather than using VHF. Not by me, that's why I put the "sometimes" caveat in there. I would usually opted for closest point between A and B, myself. In our race across the bow of a cruise ship this summer I laughed at calling the Captain up: "Uh, cap'n, that flock of ducks at the base of your 30 story window are actually kayakers...uh, us...mind hittin' the brakes?" When is the Roll Or Drown Guide To Kayaking The Islands Of Southern California coming out? Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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