John Fereira's and Kirk Olsen's notes and links on the Greenland paddle are right on target, IMO. The link to Chuck Holst's site provides an excellent reference on building one's own Greenland "stick", a very enjoyable activity which is well within the capabilities of even a rank amateur non-carpenter like me, who uses almost only hand tools. I'm very far from being an expert in either style of paddling, but I have paddled Euro for a few decades now. About three years ago I switched to a Greenland paddle partly for the same reason others have mentioned - shoulder arthritis and decaying wrist joints. My experience is that the Greenland stick *is* easier on my joints and muscles - it has less "bite" on initial catch, as others have said. There's a big difference in the way my joints feel during and (especially) after a paddling session. The Greenland is *much* easier on my shoulder and wrists. But the surface area of the blade is not significantly different from that of many Euro paddles. The difference is in the "aspect ratio" of the blade - longer and thinner on the Greenland blade, which provides for a more gradual entry and "catch". But once the blade is in the water - all the blade - the surface areas of the Greenland and the Euro are essentially identical and you can generate as much power as you want, every time. The dihedral shape of the Greenland is another joint-sparing property, and it's also an aid when bracing, rolling, or sculling. At least that seems to have been my experience. At age 70 and using a Greenland, I can still keep up with my younger paddling buddies. Of course they can blow my doors in if they want to sprint, but that's because they're younger and much stronger.They can blow my doors in with either their Euros or their Greenlands. The difference is not the paddle, but their younger bodies and their superior conditioning. A Greenland wouldn't be the paddle of choice for Wildwater racing and similar sprint racing events. Also, I would probably not use it as my paddle of choice for surfing, though it would work adequately. Aside from those activities, the Greenland will get you there every bit as fast as a Euro. As for deep high bracing, deep sculling, and so forth - the Greenland works just as well. When in doubt, extend the on-water side of the paddle a couple of inches (surprisingly little!) and you will probably find that the Greenland gives you at least as much support as the Euro. Every stroke which can be done with a Euro can be done with a Greenland - and for those who have the time and athleticism to learn them, there are quite a few rolling techniques which are done with the Greenland but not with a Euro. More than one person who was a little doubtful about rolling with a Greenland has been a bit amazed at how powerful the standard C-to-C, screw, and layback rolls are with a Greenland, even without extending the grip on the paddle. Bill Hansen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I paddled with a Greenland paddle for a while and experienced all the benefits to joints, tendons, etc, that you and all the others have described. My cruising speeds did not seem at all diminished. All my ailments went away and when I returned to the Euro paddle they returned. I always paddle un-feathered so none of this was due to dealing with feather angles. Nevertheless, I do not agree with your assessment that once buried, the Greenland has the bite of a Euro. Paddles operate similarly to wings. High aspect ratio wings have high lift-to-drag ratios, which is why they are seen on high performance aircraft. Low aspect ratio wings have more lift in when stalled so the transition from flying to stalled is less abrupt. This is why they are seen on trainer aircraft and aircraft that must operate off short fields. Effective Greenland strokes all seem to revolve around "flying" the blade, even the forward stroke. When it comes to "stalled" strokes such as braces (non-sculled) and raw standing start acceleration, the Euro (lower aspect ratio) has the advantage. It's not just about surface area. That makes sense from a theoretical standpoint (everything I know about wings is in this email, so please don't probe any deeper!), but is also my personal observation. Accelerating out through the surf or out from behind a reef was much more trying with a Greenland paddle. Still, I'm thinking of returning to a Greenland paddle for sea kayak cruising to preserve all my body parts so they are ready for abuse when surfing and rock gardening - with a euro paddle. One recent revelation for me (though I'm sure I was the last to figure it out) is the dramatic difference between different "euro" paddles when it comes to inflicting pain on the body. I have been paddling exclusively with 203CM WW paddles for all my paddling for the past couple of years. They have short fat blades and stiff large diameter shafts. The pain factor has definitely increased, but I thought it was just due to getting older. In the past few weeks I decided to try a longer (220CM) touring paddle with longer narrower (relatively) blades for touring. I wanted to see if I could increase my speed for covering distance. The difference was dramatic. I could feel the shaft flexing like it was made from rubber. I got used to this very quickly, I think my speed did increase a little, but most important benefit was that pain was dramatically reduced both while paddling and the next day. By the way, why are they called "euro" paddles? Some of the pictures of native North Pacific paddles look a lot like "euro" paddles to me. Seems like they come from the American continent and should therefore be called "American" paddles. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- ............. The difference is in the "aspect ratio" of the blade - longer and thinner on the Greenland blade, which provides for a more gradual entry and "catch". But once the blade is in the water - all the blade - the surface areas of the Greenland and the Euro are essentially identical and you can generate as much power as you want, every time. .... Every stroke which can be done with a Euro can be done with a Greenland .......... Bill Hansen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:39 AM 9/4/2004, Steve Brown wrote: >One recent revelation for me (though I'm sure I was the last to figure it >out) is the dramatic difference between different "euro" paddles when it >comes to inflicting pain on the body. >Steve's observation makes a lot of sense to me. One reason I've stayed >with an AT Xception is that it is much easier on the body than the Lendal >crankshaft paddle or even the Werner Kalliste and, God forbit, something >like the Tooksok. I also tend to use a lot of extended paddle >strokes/braces with the AT and find that in this regard some similiarities >with my friends who paddle GP. On the other hand, it does seem like the >GPers have more trouble with catching waves when surfing and perhaps with >some elements of bracing. Do wish I could do all those fancy rolls though ><grin>. ********************************************************* John S. March, MD, MPH Professor and Chief, Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Program for Child Affective & Anxiety Disorders Duke University Child and Family Study Center 718 Rutherford Street, Room 132 DUMC 3527 Durham, NC 27710 919/416-2404 (P); 919/416-2420 (F) Email: jsmarch_at_acpub.duke.edu Website: http://www2.mc.duke.edu/pcaad CAPTN: www.captn.org TADS: https://trialweb.dcri.duke.edu/tads/index.html ********************************************************* *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 4 Sep 2004 at 6:39, Steve Brown wrote: > By the way, why are they called "euro" paddles? Some of the pictures > of native North Pacific paddles look a lot like "euro" paddles to me. > Seems like they come from the American continent and should therefore > be called "American" paddles. "Euro" is obviously an arbitrary coinage that has nothing to do with origins or development. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sep 4, 2004, at 9:39 AM, Steve Brown wrote: > Nevertheless, I do not agree with your assessment that once buried, the > Greenland has the bite of a Euro. Paddles operate similarly to wings. > High > aspect ratio wings have high lift-to-drag ratios, which is why they > are seen > on high performance aircraft. Low aspect ratio wings have more lift in > when > stalled so the transition from flying to stalled is less abrupt. This > is why > they are seen on trainer aircraft and aircraft that must operate off > short > fields. I frequently here people talk about paddles working like wings and am prepared to accept that it is possible. Yet whenever I ask people to describe how the paddle is working like a wing, their explanations fall flat. People like to talk about how Greenland paddles are similar to glider wings etc. But, they never seem to be able to explain how the motion of a forward-stroking Greenland paddle is similar to that of a glider wing through the air. There is a very specific way a wing generates lift. If it does not move this way, it is not producing propulsion with lift. If you want forward propulsive thrust the paddle must move perpendicular to the direction of desired thrust and perpendicular to the axis of the "wing". So a paddle held more-or-less vertically must move more-or-less sideways, either away from or towards the boat. If it is not doesn't do this, it doesn't produce propulsion with lift and comparing it to a wing doesn't make sense. The clearest descriptions I have read for the Greenland stroke do not indicate they move through the water in a manner that would produce lift. I have tried hard to make sure I am understanding the descriptions and I've asked detailed questions. The more I asked the less convinced I was that Greenland paddles use lift to produce propulsion in a forward stroke. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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