Doug wrote; >I've never found that to be entirely true, though some repetition is >evident >and probably necessary for economic viability. I know any time the >editorial >staff reviews an article that is similar to a previous one, it must offer >new information or reword things to sufficiently shed new light. Since I wrote the comment that inspired Doug to respond I should point out in fairness that most magazines focussing on a specific activity do the same thing. As Chuck pointed out the magazine has to appeal to beginners. You can't expect new subscribers to buy old issues to get caught up. I don't consider the repetition a crime at all, I just don't feel it serves my interests. Opinions will differ on whether each article variant offers enough new content to make it worth reading. Nick brought the subject up because he felt the tone (correct me if I have this wrong, Nick) did not present a suitably sophisticated image of the sport. I don't think he expected it to have the same content as say, Marine Technology. I have no idea if a magazine with a different focus would survive nor do I have any opinion on whether Sea Kayaker properly fulfills a need. It has survived and I suspect that provides a good measure of its value and success - to enough people to makemit pay for its owners. One has to balance cost versus return. I did not feel Sea Kayaker provided that for me. It may serve other people well. I get what I need elsewhere (here for example and at no cost). I would, however, subscribe to a sea kayaking magazine along the format of the Tell Tale Compass that took no advertsing and could call a spade a dirty shovel if necessary. Nuf said from me about that. Hurricane force winds, blowing snow, and huge waves. I think I will have another cup of coffee an watch thankful that I don't have to go out there. Cheers John Winters
On Dec 27, 2004, at 9:31 AM, John Winters wrote: > Doug wrote; > >> I've never found that to be entirely true, though some repetition is >> evident >> and probably necessary for economic viability. I know any time the >> editorial >> staff reviews an article that is similar to a previous one, it must >> offer >> new information or reword things to sufficiently shed new light. > > Since I wrote the comment that inspired Doug to respond I should point > out in fairness that most magazines focussing on a specific activity > do the same thing. As Chuck pointed out the magazine has to appeal to > beginners. You can't expect new subscribers to buy old issues to get > caught up. I don't consider the repetition a crime at all, I just > don't feel it serves my interests. Opinions will differ on whether > each article variant offers enough new content to make it worth > reading. > > Nick brought the subject up because he felt the tone (correct me if I > have this wrong, Nick) did not present a suitably sophisticated image > of the sport. I don't think he expected it to have the same content as > say, Marine Technology. I have no idea if a magazine with a different > focus would survive nor do I have any opinion on whether Sea Kayaker > properly fulfills a need. It has survived and I suspect that provides > a good measure of its value and success - to enough people to makemit > pay for its owners. I don't see the enjoyment of going out for a day on the water regularly depicted in the magazines. I see skills tutorials, trips to exotic locations, and short trips gone bad, but not the kind of kayaking that I suspect the majority of skilled and dedicated sea kayakers actually seek out on a weekly basis. I would like to see more attention given to paddling where all those skills that we try to learn are actually being used successfully to have a fun day on the water. What I see in the magazines is good, useful and interesting, but I think there is an aspect of sea kayaking that has been left out and that would be good for the sport for people to see. I go kayaking because I like being out on the water feeling the ocean move. I don't see it as a collection of skills to be mastered before moving on. It is not merely a way to travel around an exotic location inexpensively. It is not just an exercise in avoiding dying. I seek out places where I can experience the ocean in a way that it can only be experienced in a small kayak. I use the skills I've learned to enhance that experience. The magazines seem to depict sea kayaking as a means to some other goal not as the goal itself. I think it is a disservice to the sport to depict it as means to another end. I would like to see sea kayaking depicted as reason enough in itself to participate in the sport. So, yes, I would like to see a more sophisticated depiction of the sport. I am not critical of repeating tutorial information for beginners. I am not critical of what is depicted, but the lack of what could be depicted. I will acknowledge that what I would like to see is hard to translate to ink on paper. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/
On Dec 28, 2004, at 10:04 AM, Nick Schade wrote: > I don't see the enjoyment of going out for a day on the water > regularly depicted in the magazines. . . . . . . . . The magazines > seem to depict sea kayaking as a means to some other goal not as the > goal itself. I think it is a disservice to the sport to depict it as > means to another end. I would like to see sea kayaking depicted as > reason enough in itself to participate in the sport. AMEN! That is indeed the missing material. Were it present, this would in fact be a 'literary' component. There are also few books published from this perspective. I know of only a couple and these have little of what I would call serious literary merit. I row in addition to paddling and there are lots of good books, (no magazines), devoted to that experience, (for its own sake). Why not paddling? I have submitted some articles of this sort to the paddling magazines. They have been rejected while my specific "destination" ones have been published. The publishers evidently don't see a market, (or maybe they just think my writing sucks). I long for that kind of reading about paddling but it is much more often found on this list than in published books and magazines. Too bad. Cheers, Michael After a great day paddling in sunny Tallahassee *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm very new to the sport ... I have only rented a couple of kayaks in Seattle and San Juan areas of Washington State, but have been around small boats (canoe, sail, etc.) a little bit growing up. That said ... I'm interested in magazines or books that can help me in my learning about kayaking. Any suggestions? Also, I've been looking at the Greenland II (a friend's suggestion who owns one and loves it). When searching in the wilderness a few months ago (I belong to a Search and Rescue team), we had lots of time to discuss boating between assignments. I need a boat that I can take my dog in ... sorry, but he's a Search Dog and I don't go anywhere without him *Please - no discussion about leaving him behind... :) won't happen, more likely that a meteorite will hit our planet and end all life as we know it ;-) He's a Labrador and weighs approx. 95 lbs. I also will sometimes have a friend (for short, calm trips) who can't paddle due to a physical impairment ... but on calm lakes I'd like to be able to take her out to bird watch, etc. I want the boat for relaxing animal/bird watching and possible 3-7 days trips (eventually). I've backpacked and hiked ... so am use to packing light. Is this too much to ask for the Greenland II or would another boat be better? Joy & Sammy ********************************************************* *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The G II wll suit you fine. We have taken ours on several extended trips, some of them two weeks in duration. It will also be a good platform for taking the pooch. It is a durable boat, and fast enough for wilderness tripping. Stable as all get out, so god for bird watching, etc. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy Barba" <tenmlstars_at_dc.rr.com> > Also, I've been looking at the Greenland II (a friend's suggestion who > owns one and loves it). . I need a boat that I can take my dog in ... > I also will sometimes have a friend (for short, calm trips) who can't > paddle due to a physical impairment ... but on calm lakes I'd like to be > able to take her out to bird watch, etc. I want the boat for relaxing > animal/bird watching and possible 3-7 days trips (eventually). I've > backpacked and hiked ... so am use to packing light. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>From my observations of surfing and surfers up here it does not appear to suit the mass market unless ones idea of the mass market includes sitting out in the ocean on a board in sub-zero weather searching for the ideal wave. Of course, maybe things differ in the sunny warm south. As for a comparison between surfing kayaks and surfing on a board it seems to me that for sheer excitement the board surfers appear to get more bang for their buck and time. I think here in sunny Southern California surfing does indeed appeal to what one might define as a "mass market." People here tend to be overly image conscious. I have known non-surfers to fit board racks on their cars, and even carry surfboards on top just to look the part. Not to mention that surf styles in clothing are a very big industry here. These days' corporate types will even arrange business meeting to take place on the water between waves. Most of the board surfers I know are also very much into the surfing magazines. I too will occasionally read them and except for the great surfing photos I fail to get the appeal. But then the board surfers would no doubt say the very same thing about the kayaing mags. Which brings me to the sport of surfing itself - I consider myself to be a very avid surfer. These days I surf paddle craft. Surfing is surfing, despite the tools involved. The big difference between the different styles of surfing is performance. A sea kayak will surf. A whitewater kayak is to a sea kayak what a high performance surfing kayak is to a whitewater boat. A surfboard is just the next step up. While some of the high performance surf kayaks and waveskis can be pretty fast and nimble on a wave, they still cannot, and probably never will be able to outperform a surfboard. Scott So.Cal. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John replied (snip): > Really? I haven't noticed the Brits attending the smaller symposia much. > :-)< Yeah, those Brits do seem to have a lot of fun, especially as paddlers, don't they. I'd love to be in a position to afford a trip to Wales or somewhere like that, do a course/assessment, and down a pint or two with the lads. Though, I hear via the grapevine that certain American paddlers are a real hoot to be around too, for after-paddle activities, like Duane and Steve, et al, and their singing/harmonica playing. > The skills symposia that I have attended *do* typically seem to be smaller > though. I believe registration was limited to 70 or so people for the AKT > symposiums and the Sweetwater symposium I attended was of similar size. > Any larger than that and the class sizes would get too large or the > coaches would have to teach more classes.< I don't imagine symposium size has any real bearing on the discussion at hand (my fault for classifying it that way). Each symposium has its own flavour with respect to how intense the perceivable level of commercialism/adventure-promotion/superficiality can be. I've attended small paddlefests where there was a nice, buoyant but not overbearing, seeker-friendly attitude to potential newbies, with a good emphasis on preliminary skills, wilderness-appreciation/conservation ethic, and something I'd categorize as "just plain fun." The symposium at Ladysmith here on the island in the Spring comes to mind. Yeah, there's a fair bit of gear and commercialism, but talking with guys like , for example, Kirby Stevens of Coastal Recreation Maps (he goes to most of the paddlefests here on the west coast), one senses a balanced state of grace and winsomeness in their promotion of the sport of paddling. Promotion of paddling as a way of life, with it's concomitant pureness of sustainable paddling activity by the individual, is a subjective element I'm not sure can be fully fleshed out here in a discussion group with any relevance, nor perhaps one's individual opinion about a paddling magazine's alleged mandate. While I certainly do not agree with all the convictions of John W. and Nick S. here on Paddlewise, I do admire their ability not to be intimidated by the tyranny of their peers and the insightfulness exhibited in their postings. Both these individuals are highly intelligent men, but intelligence without courage is certain bankruptcy, so fortunately they lend a real richness to the list, as do others like yourself. I certainly offer to all of you, a Happy New Year! Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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