Is there a shared repository of paddling waypoints that I have missed? I have seen several attempts at creating such a thing but they never seem to have gotten off the ground. There are commercial collections but they are not of much use. I am referring to wilderness waypoints of the sort that would be of great use to paddlers but not to the general boating community and that therefore are not commercially available. When I am planning a trip, I often search the web for them but the results are usually spotty at best. Paddler trip reports only occasionally include them. As an example: I am currently planning on a trip to Lake Jocassee in South Carolina. I know by word of mouth that there is a legal primitive campsite over the border, (in North Carolina), on the Toxaway river but I can't seem to get any information that would assure me that I will be able to actually find it - - no landmarks other than a vague statement that implies that it is associated with a "Foothills Trail" access point. If there would be interest in trying to establish such a paddling specific collection, (and a place to hang it), I would be willing to try to maintain it. Cheers, Michael in Tallahassee *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Michael Lampman" <mlampman_at_solitaireboats.com> asked: > Is there a shared repository of paddling waypoints that I have missed? I suspect many folks who paddle wild areas are loathe to broadcast the exact location of their "special spots," instead leaving the discovery of those spots to others who also enjoy the taste of the process of discovery. I have now and then shared the location of special campsites with friends and acquaintances, but would never supply a waypoint for such a spot to a widely circulated repository -- for all to home in on. Likewise, I would rather not know, in advance, of someone else's special spot. I'd rather discover it myself ... and bask in the illusion that it was an unknown treasure. For me, the process of discovery is a part of the joy of wild places. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I would agree with Dave but I think this would be overcome by people not posting those special sites. I think the type of items that would be great to have in a public database would be public-use sites - official campsites, boat landings, lighthouses, islands for crossings, bridges, great shoreline restaurants :o), etc. Useful places that don't really include the joy of discovery but rather just make it easier or safer to plan a trip - e.g., not having to spend 3 hrs trying to find that landing that you KNOW is there. When planning a trip to Voyageurs National Park, I couldn't find info on the location of the existing campsites that are operated by the NPS. Finally found someone in the NPS remote sensing lab that could provide this info - but a comprehensive list is not public info - partially due to liability issues I think (!). I know of nothing like this for all of the campsites and portages in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. In the Apostle Islands, the NPS campsite reservation website even has photos of the campsites so you can see what you are getting. Not sure this is great, removing some of the mystery - although I think I would use it if planning a trip to avoid ending up on some windswept site for 3 days. For some trip planning, I've used a couple of different on-line airphoto systems that provide GPS coordinates - click on a feature or location on the photo (after zooming all the way in) and the system provides the coordinates. But you must first know where that feature is on the photo. These 'shots' have been fairly accurate - good enough anyway. K *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I made a decision years ago to avoid publishing complete GPS tracks on KayakGuide.com. Instead, I ask contributing paddlers to select just the coordinates for key points of navigation (e.g. put ins, takeout, camping), logistics and safety (e.g. resupply points or emergency access) or public interest. That sensible compromise to sharing GPS information has worked very well to date. A good example of GPS coordinates NOT to publicize are the Indian mounds we have here in Florida. Some are already well publicized in parks, so those I'd be happy to share on KayakGuide. But there are a far greater number of these archaeological treasures that are better protected by not disclosing their locations. And we also do not publish locations of sensitive bird rookeries or protected species habitat. - Al Vazquez KayakGuide.com - Places to Paddle - On Friday, January 28, 2005, at 08:50 AM, Keith Wrage wrote: > I would agree with Dave but I think this would be overcome by people > not posting those special sites. I think the type of items that would > be great to have in a public database would be public-use sites - > official campsites, boat landings, lighthouses, islands for crossings, > bridges, great shoreline restaurants :o), etc. Useful places that > don't really include the joy of discovery but rather just make it > easier or safer to plan a trip - e.g., not having to spend 3 hrs > trying to find that landing that you KNOW is there. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wow! I am having a tough time figuring out what I said that implied that I wanted to help the bad guys trash our secret grottos, loot ancient tombs and capture or kill exotic threatened birds. I just wanted to simplify the research required to plan a trip to a remote location. Puzzled, Michael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If you have the National Geographic TOPO! program, you can download from the TOPO! site a waypoint file of BWCAW campsites. Supposedly this was created with the assistance of the BWCAW administration. Unfortunately, this file is in a proprietory format, so it is useless without the TOPO! program. You can also download a portage routes file for the same program. I suggested a couple of years ago that the Apostle Islands National Lakeshore administration publish the waypoints for the campsites on their Web site, but as far as I know, they have not done so yet. I was unable to find one campsite because of an inaccurately printed map. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>I suggested a couple of years ago that the Apostle Islands National >Lakeshore administration publish the waypoints for the campsites on >their Web site, but as far as I know, they have not done so yet. I was >unable to >find one campsite because of an inaccurately printed map. > Chuck Holst Planning a trip on Lake Fontana in North Carolina, which I still haven't done, I hoped to visit most of the cemteries on the north shore. The Park Service folks at the Smoky Mountains National Park sent me GPS waypoints for all the graveyards in the park. Very nice folks to deal with. (If anyone cares, my master's thesis was on gravestones. Historical archaeology is good hobby for me as a paddler.) Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I just wanted to simplify the research required to plan a trip to a > remote location. Like Dave and others said, - this is part of the fun :-). Any nice spots that you can reach by a kayak, except for national parks, will be eventually developed and inhabited (and mostly they are). You may use cruising guides for those places where there is no other info available (on seas). There are no put-in locations there, except for ports and marinas, but protected anchorages are almost always accompanied by accessible (to kayaker) shores. It is also a fun to read such guides, as they have a lot of photos. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"alex" <al.m_at_3web.net> wrote (in response to Michael Lampman): >> I just wanted to simplify the research required to plan a trip to a >> remote location. > Like Dave and others said, - this is part of the fun :-). Any nice spots > that you can reach by a kayak, except for national parks, will be > eventually > developed and inhabited (and mostly they are). You may use cruising > guides > for those places where there is no other info available (on seas). There > are no put-in locations there, except for ports and marinas, but protected > anchorages are almost always accompanied by accessible (to kayaker) shores. > It is also a fun to read such guides, as they have a lot of photos. Michael emailed me back channel to explain that where he paddles (east coast of the US), it is often a very long drive just to reach a paddleplace, and then a hassle to find a decent place to camp that is not already occupied. This is in contrast to what we west coasters have: manifold places to paddle where the crush to find an available campsite is not so severe. Alas, the vagaries of population pressure! I bet if I lived where Michael does, I'd be more of his persuasion ... -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael wrote; >Wow! I am having a tough time figuring out what I said that implied >that I wanted to help the bad guys trash our secret grottos, loot >ancient tombs and capture or kill exotic threatened birds. >I just wanted to simplify the research required to plan a trip to a >remote location. You just hit a sensitive nerve. Not all that many years ago part of the challenge in a wilderness trip included the research as well as finding campsites rapids etc. that you did not know about.. I can remember topo maps with huge white areas that had not been mapped accurately. Not only did you not know where a campsite was you did not know if there was one. Many took pride in the ability to make camp where no one had camped before and then leaving it to look as if no one had camped there before. We have changed. Not that many years ago a good navigator was considered a valuable person to have on a trip. Today just about any damned fool can use a GPS. I can remember when using LORAN (a land based navigational beacon system) was illegal in ocean racing. You actually had to use a sextant!!!! What we once considered esssential parts of the art have become artifacts. The end result is that the waterways have become clogged with responsible and irresponsible people because getting there does not require much effort or as many skills. Every technological change (I refuse to call them advances) alters the face of wilderness, the skills of wilderness travelers and the attitudes of wilderness travelers. Some do not consider this an improvement. Even if you can't stop change you don't have to like it. Cheers John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Michael emailed me back channel to explain that where he paddles (east > coast > of the US), it is often a very long drive just to reach a paddleplace, and > then a hassle to find a decent place to camp that is not already occupied. > > This is in contrast to what we west coasters have: manifold places to > paddle > where the crush to find an available campsite is not so severe. > > Alas, the vagaries of population pressure! I bet if I lived where Michael > does, I'd be more of his persuasion ... I'm an east coaster (Virginia), and I know exactly what he's talking about. In my neck of the woods, you don't just pull ashore and pick a spot, even if camping is allowed "anywhere". It's easy for the government to say "camp anywhere" when there isn't anyplace to camp! For example, the undergrowth is so thick, you usually can't see anything along the shores past the first outer layer of leaves, from the top of the soil all the way to the top of the trees, and trying to hack your way into it to even walk around can be next to impossible (not to mention undesirable for the sake of the "hacking"). Finding a foot print big enough to pitch a tent would be a real challenge.... voice of experience. I NEVER go out anymore unless I know EXACTLY where I'll find a camp spot.... and hope it's not already occupied, and heaven help me if it is. I too have been in situations where I just wanted to know the coordinates for put-ins, take-outs, established camp sites that may be difficult to find due to not being able to see more than a 1 foot wide path leading into the dense woods, and so forth. Not secret spots... just a place to sleep for the night. So, I don't think he's looking for "secret spots"..... just "directions" to well known but sometimes hard to spot "stuff". Could be as mundane as "take out here, walk 1/4 mile to a convenience store for snacks and a bathroom." I feel for you Michael. BTW - if you take that trip, send me your trip report (with GPS coordinates, of course! :-)). I've seen a tad of info on that Lake and it sounds a little intriguing... maybe I'll have to go one day. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com> wrote: > In my neck of the woods, you don't just pull ashore and pick a > spot, even if camping is allowed "anywhere". It's easy for the > government to say "camp anywhere" when there isn't anyplace to camp! > For example, the undergrowth is so thick, you usually can't see anything > along the shores past the first outer layer of leaves, from the top of > the soil all the way to the top of the trees, and trying to hack your > way into it to even walk around can be next to impossible (not to > mention undesirable for the sake of the "hacking"). Finding a foot > print big enough to pitch a tent would be a real challenge.... voice of > experience. We have that problem out here, also, with steep-to shorelines and thick salal/blackberries/devils club brush clogging the wter's edge. I suspect a hammock might be the ticket to defeat the thicket. [groan ... sorry] -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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