If any of you have recommendations for a handheld VHF radios suitable for kayaking in North America, I would be grateful. You know, the usual ideal machine: cheap, light, compact, sturdy, waterproof (within the usual limits), not a power hog, easy to use, etc., etc. Thanks. Tom *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joyce Family" <tfj4_at_comcast.net> asked: > If any of you have recommendations for a handheld VHF radios suitable for > kayaking in North America, I would be grateful. You know, the usual ideal > machine: cheap, light, compact, sturdy, waterproof (within the usual > limits), not a power hog, easy to use, etc., etc. Tom, the first question might be: How much can you spend? US$200? US$300? After that, go for a JIS-7-rated unit: waterproof for 30 minutes three feet under the surface. And, lithium battery. Then, they are all pretty good, and it gets down to which bell or whistle you like. I have an ICOM M88, which is way better than the first VHF I bought in 1996 (also an ICOM). -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I saw this unit on sale locally for $140.00: http://www.uniden.com/productpop/00_productpop.cfm?prd_code=MHS350 Small package, JIS7 rating, 1/5 watt power. Only thing missing that I think many people want is the ability to accept standard AA batteries in the battery tray. K *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 8 Apr 2005 at 21:09, Keith Wrage wrote: > Only thing missing that I > think many people want is the ability to accept standard AA batteries > in the battery tray. I've started shopping for a marine VHF unit again. This time I'll likely buy one. I've come to the conclusion that some of the newer models that use lithium batteries _almost_ make AA battery trays unnecessary. Since the lithium batteries have a very long shelf life compared to NiMH or NiCd (i.e. they don't self-discharge at a significant rate) they can be relied on to stay charged on a long trip. If you add the capability to recharge on trip (with the charger) using another power source (solar panel, spare AGM battery or other 12V source) keeping AA backups is less necessary. For example, I could recharge a lithium unit from my electric bilge pump battery. This means that I have to be proactive on keeping the charge up, since I haven't seen whether I can get a radio that works _while_ being charged (my cell phone, for example, can be used while charging). Lithium batteries don't solve the problem of running down the battery faster than you planned (like an accidental short circuit). My expected use pattern means that I no longer look for AA compatibility if I get a lithium. Unfortunately, the lithium batteries are only available in the pricier models of marine VHF handhelds. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I bought one of these last year and it's worked great so far. Look for VHF50 on: www.westmarine.com <http://www.westmarine.com/> What I like about it is: lithium battery and knobless. Power on and off with a button, change volume, squelch, channels, etc all with buttons. Knobs are harder to use if your hands are wet, cold or gloved, I think. WEST MARINE *VHF50 Compact Waterproof Handheld* The VHF50 combines exactly what we look for in a handheld radio: compact size, excellent battery technology and a bright clear display. using the latest circuitry, and a compact Li-Ion battery pack, we've managed to squeeze these features into a package that's not much bigger than an FRS radio or cell phone. The "knobless" design results in a clean profile that slips into pockets, or hangs front he cell-phone style swivel belt clip. Other features we like include the programmable scanner, Dual Watch, and a clear indicator for US or International channels so you don't transmit on the wrong band. And, since drop-in chargers are so convenient, we've made it standard equipment on the VHF50. - Controls: Eight button, keypad, up/down keys - Scanning Modes: Programmable, Dual Watch - Weather Alert: No - Antenna: Flexible rubber antenna, SMA connector - Transmit Power: 5/1 Watt - Battery Life Li-ion: 10 to 15 hours - Waterproof: Manufacturer rated submersible (JIS7) - Dimensions: 4.52"H x 2.48"W x 1.45"D - Weight: 8.5oz. - Included Equipment: 12 hour standard charger and AC Power supply, flexible rubber antenna, swivel belt clip with button and mounting screw - Warranty: three years including water damage *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 8 Apr 2005 at 23:18, Anne Burton wrote: > What I like about it is: lithium battery and knobless. Power on and > off > with a button, change volume, squelch, channels, etc all with buttons. > Knobs are harder to use if your hands are wet, cold or gloved, I > think. I like the idea of one-hand, knobless controls. The only other one I've seen is the Garmin 720/725. The Garmin's are a bit dated now, since they still come with NiCd only (though a AA tray - not waterproof apparently - is an option) Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day Michael, I'm suprised the Garmin unit AA battery tray is not waterproof - it looks very similar to the Nicad tray. Also Garmin do make an optional nickel metal hydride pack. After reading Tord's description of lithium fires I'm not sure I'ld want to go the path of Lithium. I wonder when fuels cells will become effective and commonplace! As you say the Garmin 725E is a bit dated by now. I've taken mine for the last 5 years through numerous surf trashings and other rolling events albeit in a fairly water proof plastic bag. Its suprisingly expensive for an old unit. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 10 Apr 2005 at 7:14, PeterO wrote: > I'm suprised the Garmin unit AA battery tray is not waterproof - it > looks very similar to the Nicad tray. Well, I should say that that info is hearsay. When I looked at the Garmin a few years ago, that was the info I got. Apparently they took the same attitude towards the VHF as they did towards the GPS batteries - electronics are waterproof, batteries are not. I understand that it has something to do with the fact that the standard batteries are sealed and the tray is loose. I could stand to be corrected. Regardless, the Garmin is not one I would recommend to anyone today, since so many other brands offer better products for the price. I'm personally narrowing my choice down to the Icom M1V - good lithium battery, decent features and reasonable price. Some of the other models that are comparably priced in the US are, for some reason, obscenely priced in Canada. There's no rhyme or reason for the differences - it certainly doesn't match the exchange rate. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 10 Apr 2005 at 7:14, PeterO wrote: > I wonder when fuels cells will become effective and commonplace! Toshiba announced earlier this year that it will start shipping methanol fuel cells by the end of 2005. This I heard on Discovery Channle's Daily Planet news show. Target products are laptop batteries and things like that. I can't find a reference to the announcement, but here's an earlier article. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3837585.stm> Too bad it isn't an ethanol fuel cell. Then, in an emergency you could fuel it with your booze supply. In a real emergency, you could drink your battery. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sunday 10 April 2005 14.04, you wrote: > On 10 Apr 2005 at 7:14, PeterO wrote: > > I wonder when fuels cells will become effective and commonplace! > > Toshiba announced earlier this year that it will start shipping > methanol fuel cells by the end of 2005. This I heard on Discovery > Channle's Daily Planet news show. Target products are laptop > batteries and things like that. I can't find a reference to the > announcement, but here's an earlier article. > > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3837585.stm> > > Too bad it isn't an ethanol fuel cell. Then, in an emergency you > could fuel it with your booze supply. In a real emergency, you could > drink your battery. "Sir, why didn't you use your VHF to contact the coastguard?" "I had drunk all the fuel!" Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 8 Apr 2005 at 17:39, Dave Kruger wrote: > After that, go for a JIS-7-rated unit: waterproof for 30 minutes > three feet under the surface. > > And, lithium battery. Strongly agree with both recommendations. But get a waterproof bag anyway. Seal Line makes some nice radio drybags - one model even allows an external speaker/mic to be used. > Then, they are all pretty good, and it gets down to which bell or > whistle you like. These days, almost all handhelds have the same basic feature set - All channels, including WX, dual or triple scan, 1 or 5 watt operation etc. You can get such bells and whistles as built-in GPS, built-in FRS, emergency SOS strobe, DSC emergency broadcast capability etc. The big problem is that the lithium batteries usually are only sold with units that have a lot of features. Hence, the lithium ($$$) and the (superfluous) features ($$$) add up. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Saturday 09 April 2005 08.30, Mike wrote: > The big problem is that the lithium batteries usually are only sold > with units that have a lot of features. Hence, the lithium ($$$) and > the (superfluous) features ($$$) add up. While rechargeable lithium-ion cells are a blessing in many ways it is worth to point out that an overcharged lithium cell, or just a faulty, shortened, or punctured one, is a big fire hazard. With Ni-Cads and NiMHs the problems are very rare, unless you charge them at very high rates, and they don't burn very well either (can explode, as all types of batteries can)! With Lithium-ions, and especially Lithium-polymers (LiPos) the fire hazard is very real, and if you drop a big lithium-polymer cell it might easily turn into a firebomb, immediately, or later, as the lithium inside the cell catches fire instantly when it comes into contact with oxygen! If a lithium cell-equipped piece of equipment goes haywire due wrong charging (say you are accidentally using a charger for something else - they all look the same, those wall-socket chargers, don't they?) , or due to a malfunctioning charger, it does so with gusto! The fire department here warns about any type of wall-socket charger left plugged into the socket when not in use, as they are the most common source of domestic fires, but that is a mere nothing to what happens when a lithium cell, due to some reason is punctured (mechanical problems, overcharging, et cetera). Flames a few meters high erupt just like that, and anything within reach is engulfed in flames! It could be you, your family, your house, your kayak! So jury-rigged chargers should be avoided (say a "12V" solarpanel connected directly to a 12V charger, without any means of voltage regulation); even multi-function chargers should be avoided, as it is so easy to set them wrongly (we have all done that, but Ni-Cads and NiMHs just die - they CAN explode, but very, very rarely). You might ask how I know all this? First, I've worked as a private fire fighter for many years, so fires don't scare me no more. Nasty, yes, often, for sure! And I know very well how it feels to catch fire! In 1990 I was run over, and sat in a wheel chair for quite a while and while in the wheel chair I managed to set myself on fire, while filling a cigarette lighter, an old Zippo. Didn't notice that I had spilled white spirits on my arm and then should just test it! Some hair, right arm, eyebrows. eyelashes, and a bit more lost, but I knew what to do so I rolled into the kitchen, put the arm under the tap till I could feel it no more, got all the ice I had and poured that into the sink and buried my arm in the water-ice mixture as long as I could stand it. It worked as they say it does, not even secondary burns, just some miscolouration. I tell you, if you don't do the right thing at once an accident like that happens you're in deep sh*t! Then I took up electric model airplane flying, a quiet and neighbour-friendly sport! But it has its dangers: One night I was going to charge my pack for the next morning's flying, and managed to fall asleep while charging a eight cell Ni-Cad power pack with a nice charger from a very famous company. I was awoken by odd popping sounds - the vents in the Ni-Cads opening, one by one. I found my entire flat filled with black, acrid, smoke, but thank god the door out to the balcony was wide open, so much of the smoke escaped out that way. The smoke ended about two feet from the floor, so I managed to flee out onto the balcony for some semi-fresh air and then dove back in, found the burning, melted heap that once had been my charger and holding on to its power cord - the fuses in the flat had long gone by then - lifted it out onto the balcony, where the fire died out quite instantly. Some water put the rest out. Close call! I had my entire flat cleaned, the kitchen repainted, part of the kitchen floor replaced, et cetera. Thank god I was insured! Anyway, then came these wonder cells, the re-chargable Lithium cells, the Lithium-polymers, to be more exact, that has revolutionized flying electric-powered models - the power to weight is now higher with electric power than with conventional engines, and you can either fly for an hour if you want to, or spend 20 minutes out-and-out flying vertical aerobatics, with little problems. Before LiPos electric flight times of any kind were normally 5-7 minutes, now the same plane can fly for at least 20 minutes, with the same aircraft weight! A three-fold increase in capacity, as easy as A-B-C! But the down side is the fire hazard - a crash and you might easily start a brush fire, overcharge your pack while connected to your car's battery and you're lucky if you just need a new car! To quote Isidor Buchmann is the founder and CEO of Cadex Electronics Inc., in Vancouver, BC: "Please follow the following guidelines when charging and discharging lithium-ion cells and battery packs. Failing to follow these rules could result in venting with flame, explosion, fire and personal injury. - Never connect cells in parallel and/or series that are not designed for such a purpose. A cell mismatch may cause overcharge and venting with flame. - Never charge or discharge the battery without a working protection circuit. Each cell must be monitored individually. Anomalies must be detected and the current flow interrupted. - Always attach a temperature sensor when charging and discharging the battery. Make certain that the temperature sensor will terminate the current before the temperature reaches a safe limit. - Only connect cells that are matched and have the identical state-of-charge. - Pay special caution when using an unknown brand. Lower cost cells do not offer the same safeguards as well-known and more expensive brand names. - On experiments, place the test battery into a fireproof container with a heavy lid on top. Never leave the battery unattended while under charge or discharge." Amen! Yours, Tord S Eriksson, ex-fire fighter :_)! PS As RC Hobbies puts it: ============================================= LiPos Do's and don'ts Do: Only use a charger that is specifically designed to charge LiPo batteries. Using other types of chargers can cause an extreme fire hazard! Do: LiPos don't develop memory or voltage depression characteristics like Ni-Cds. Do charge them without the worry of cycling or discharging them. Do: Store LiPos at least partially charged. LiPos will maintain their performance levels over time, even during non-use, much better than Ni-Cds and there's no need to cycle them. Don't: Use any type of charger that is not specifically designed to charge LiPo batteries. Using non-LiPo-specific chargers can cause an extreme fire hazard! Don't: Fully discharge your LiPo battery pack. Most speed controller have a voltage cut off that will prevent over-discharging the battery. Discharging a LiPo beyond it's critical minimum voltage will cause damage to the battery. Don't: If you have a crash and the battery is damaged, don't put the battery in your car or house immediately after a crash. It's possible that a chemical reaction can take place in the damaged battery that could cause a fire. Put the battery in a safe place for a least one hour. ===================================================== From: http://www.rchobbies.org/lithium_battery_breakthrough.htm *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
After drowning my last waterproof (!) Apelco VHF, insurance bought me an Icom IC-M2A, and I'm very happy with it. Better reception than the last model, very good battery life, and a tray for AA batteries. It is a little bigger than I wanted, but it has a very robust feel to it. I still carry it in a dry bag. -- John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Saturday 09 April 2005 09.57, John wrote: > After drowning my last waterproof (!) Apelco VHF, insurance bought me an > Icom IC-M2A, and I'm very happy with it. Better reception than the last > model, very good battery life, and a tray for AA batteries. It is a little > bigger than I wanted, but it has a very robust feel to it. Yep, that's the one we also got! > I still carry it in a dry bag. Indeed we do that, too! Inside a watertight zipbag, inside a dry bag :-)! Tord PS Worked when it was needed, excellent reception (have not tried transmission yet). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The other thing to consider is floatation. Most/all radios sink like a rock. If you are butterfingered like I am this is a consideration. I didn't want it tethered due to entanglement considerations. I found a neoprene case at West Marine. This didn't quite make it positive bouancy, but adding a small piece of floatation to the cord did the trip. I also have the Icom IC-M2A and love it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Here are a couple models others recommended on the Folbot Forum, where a similar discussion occurred over the last couple days: Standard HX460S and HX370S ; both can be powered off an AA tray; a URL for the latter (about US$180 at Boater's World): http://www.standardhorizon.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=85&encProdID=W4pBcnN%2B8L8%3D&DivisionID=3&isArchived=0 ICOM M1V Google each for prices and details. I'd ditto remarks about lithium batteries. Mine lasts a long time, and, yes, it was expensive. But, take the extra $80 and amortize it over the five years of use it will likely give you and the pain will seem less. One other datum: qualitatively, the receiver on my ICOM M-88 (comparable to the Standard HX460X, I think) seems much more sensitive than the one on my older ICOM: I can pick up TX from marginal sources in places where the old ICOM got nothing. And, finally: I disagree that a radio bag is needed with a JIS-7 rated radio. Mine has lived on my PFD for some 30 trips, and gone for one swim. Being in the PFD pocket, instead in a bag on the deck of my boat, means that the antenna is much better placed for receiving, and that if I go in the drink, the radio is with me, not the boat. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One of the best radios available over here is the ICOM MC-32. Good value and waterproof (though I stick it in a dry bag anyway) it is a good basic unit. Most importantly it is entirely push button (ie. no knobs) so can be easily used one handed which is very useful in rough conditions so other hand is on the paddle. Excellent too if used in a dry bag. Richard Sydney Australia Joyce Family wrote: >If any of you have recommendations for a handheld VHF radios suitable for >kayaking in North America, I would be grateful. You know, the usual ideal >machine: cheap, light, compact, sturdy, waterproof (within the usual >limits), not a power hog, easy to use, etc., etc. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 9 Apr 2005 at 11:57, Tord Eriksson wrote: > So jury-rigged chargers should be avoided (say a "12V" solarpanel > connected directly to a 12V charger, without any means of voltage > regulation); I would hope that any charger designed to plug into a car's cigarette lighter socket can handle a solar panel. Car voltages can vary from 13.5V to 16V - they are only nominally 12V. A close reading of the specs on the charger should tell you what it can handle. I don't understand why more handhelds can't simply be plugged directly into a 12V power source and used without battery. My GPS does that and (almost) every boat has 12V power on board. Anyway, your comments on Li battery fires are interesting - I've never heard about that before. Thanks for the advice. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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