G'Day, Craig wondered if Andrew was suffering the effects of dehydration. It was a speculation that surfaced soon after the accident was reported but the evidence simply doesn't support it. Peter Treby suggests two points 1) that there was plenty of fresh desalinated water 2) It would have taken a reasonable level of organisation and discipline to ensure that supply. Additional points are: 3. the distances he was paddling. It is highly unlikely that even a somewhat dehydrated medium weight paddler would have been able to cover those distances. If he was dehydrated to the point of confusion this would have surely been impossible. 4) The records of Andrews messages and conversations show no sign of confusion. This includes his last messages. Regarding Andrew's distress message. There used to be an anachronism in the distress protocol in Australia that said you only use the call "Mayday Mayday Mayday" if your boat is sinking or the engine is totally disabled. For all other emergencies the correct protocol is "Pan Pan Pan". This may have changed recently but I'm not aware of it. Such a protocol is not well suited for kayaks. So It's puzzling that the distress call didn't include the words "Mayday Mayday Mayday". He may have called Mayday earlier in a part of the transmission that did not get through, it was a very weak signal. This plus the fact that his rear cockpit was flooding would make the message "my kayak is sinking" quite reasonable. Matt suggested that Andrew had already been separated from the boat before making his distress call and that is certainly possible. The points that seem to suggest he may have been with the boat are, the change in signal strength before the last words in his distress call "its gone". This would be consistent with an aerial losing height as Andrew fell back into the sea. There's also the question over why Andrew would have the VHF but not the EPIRB. Questions Matt's description of how easy it is to separate from the boat rings in my ears. Bearing in mind that one doesn't impose requirements on anybody but in terms of trying to maximise safety when paddling alone at sea what do paddlewisers think of the following: - Distress Call question Doug's point to keep repeating the distress call is well made and I would advocate that kayakers break the Mayday vs Pan rule and call Mayday from the start of a distress call for a life threatening situation. This could be a point of debate. My navy friends have said call Pan first then Mayday. Whatever the distress call I'd repeat it at the start of every response to the coastguard if possible. What do others think? Tether when alone at sea question What do people think about alway wearing a tether when paddling alone at sea and what kind of tether. I take Doug's point and two of the most experienced paddlers in our club also say that it should be optional. But after Andrew's accident I'm not so sure that its wise for it to be taken off? And how to set up a permanent tether that isn't also a hazard? EPIRB when alone at sea question If trying to optimise safety would you always wear an EPIRB tethered to the PFD? All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Regarding Andrew's distress message. There used to > be an anachronism in the > distress protocol in Australia that said you only > use the call "Mayday Mayday > Mayday" if your boat is sinking or the engine is > totally disabled. For all > other emergencies the correct protocol is "Pan Pan > Pan". This may have changed > recently but I'm not aware of it. Such a protocol is > not well suited for > kayaks. So It's puzzling that the distress call > didn't include the words > "Mayday Mayday Mayday". He may have called Mayday My understanding is that "Mayday" is used when there is immediate and present danger. "Pan Pan" is used when the situation high risk, but not immediately life threatening. A "Pan Pan" could deteriorate into a "Mayday." In Kayaking terms, this explanation of these terms is much more meaningful. Perhaps the "Pan Pan" should be used more regularly by Kayakers. It would allow Kayakers to advise of the situation before it potentially deteriorates and everything goes horribly wrong. Derek ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:50:33 -0700 (PDT), "Derek" > My understanding is that "Mayday" is used when there > is immediate and present danger. "Pan Pan" is used > when the situation high risk, but not immediately life > threatening. A "Pan Pan" could deteriorate into a > "Mayday." I went last month to the Long Island Paddlesport symposium and listened to the USGC commander for all of the Northeast US give a presentation on emergency communications. This exact topic came up, and he said that Pan Pan was really only for use by trained commercial mariners. He said if you are in any sort of emergency in a kayak, that needs outside help, to call "Mayday Mayday Mayday". Their radio operators will come on the channel immediately if they hear this. One person at the symposium described paddling up to an injured jet skiier who was off his jet ski in the water with a dislocated shoulder, and he called Pan Pan, since the kayaker himself was not in distress. The USGC commander said next time absolutely call Mayday in that situation--it was an emergency that needed outside help, and the way to get outside help is to call Mayday on the emergency channel. And, of course, you shouldn't even be talking on that channel unless there is an emergency. John -- John Huntington jhuntington_at_fastmail.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It's been more than a decade since I took my VHF operator's exam (and I'm in Canada, where the protocol might be different), but I recall that if you're putting out a distress call for for someone other than yourself, the hail is "Mayday relay, mayday relay, mayday relay" followed by an explanation of the circumstances. A notional example: "Mayday relay, mayday relay, mayday relay, this is [call sign]. I am a one person kayak at position [lat and lon from GPS followed by position in relation to local landmarks for boats listening that don't use GPS.] one nautical mile south of Shipwreck Reef. I am NOT in distress myself, but have just observed two jetskis collide with one another approximately one half nautical mile from my position, bearing six five degrees magnetic. Any vessel able to assist please respond when you've finished laughing..." Philip -----Original Message----- From: jhuntington_at_fastmail.net On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:50:33 -0700 (PDT), "Derek" > My understanding is that "Mayday" is used when there > is immediate and present danger. "Pan Pan" is used > when the situation high risk, but not immediately life > threatening. A "Pan Pan" could deteriorate into a > "Mayday." I went last month to the Long Island Paddlesport symposium and listened to the USGC commander for all of the Northeast US give a presentation on emergency communications. This exact topic came up, and he said that Pan Pan was really only for use by trained commercial mariners. He said if you are in any sort of emergency in a kayak, that needs outside help, to call "Mayday Mayday Mayday". Their radio operators will come on the channel immediately if they hear this. One person at the symposium described paddling up to an injured jet skiier who was off his jet ski in the water with a dislocated shoulder, and he called Pan Pan, since the kayaker himself was not in distress. The USGC commander said next time absolutely call Mayday in that situation--it was an emergency that needed outside help, and the way to get outside help is to call Mayday on the emergency channel. And, of course, you shouldn't even be talking on that channel unless there is an emergency. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
kayakwriter_at_aim.com wrote: > It's been more than a decade since I took my VHF operator's exam (and I'm in Canada, where the protocol might be different), but I recall that if you're putting out a distress call for for someone other than yourself, the hail is > "Mayday relay, mayday relay, mayday relay" followed by an explanation of the circumstances. Mayday relay is to relay a message between two parties (usually the mayday issuer and CG) where they don't have direct contact. For example, if you hear the mayday clearly and the CG can't due to distance/horizon etc, you can act as the middleman in the communication. If you're with the person/vessel that is in trouble, do a regular Mayday. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
on 27/3/07 10:26, rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au at rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au wrote: > G'Day, > > > EPIRB when alone at sea question > > If trying to optimise safety would you always wear an EPIRB tethered to the > PFD? > My question is, why would you not? A 406 EPIRB, as Andrew had, if activated when he was in trouble, would have had a helicopter homing in on him within an hour, even if he had lost contact with the kayak. This would also have avoided the delay in the search, when his radio message was relayed to his family by phone, for confirmation (or is this case, not) that it was genuine. A friend of mine who was there at the time was amazed that the most unlikely scenario, that the call was a hoax, was the one seized upon almost immediately by Andrew's family and support crew. Thanks Peter for posting the report on Andrew, and my comments are made with the knowledge that, for whatever reasons, Andrew was not able to activate his EPIRB, which I understand was a vital part of his safety plan. Cheers, JKA -- John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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