This does get a bit old. In all the years that paddlewise has debated over whether a person should always wear a PFD not one person has ever given an answer to this question. A person is paddling his kayak and not wearing a PFD. A person is swimming beside him and not wearing a PFD. The one is considered unsafe the other not. Is it the kayak that is unsafe or the not wearing of the PFD? Cheers John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Both are unsafe for not wearing helmets. Richard Culpeper http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/ On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:19:33 -0300 John Winters <jdwinters_at_eastlink.ca> wrote: > A person is paddling his kayak and not wearing a PFD. A person is swimming beside him and not wearing a PFD. The one is >considered unsafe the other not. Is it the kayak that is unsafe or the not wearing of the PFD? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What, no helicopter? <grin> On 3/22/07, RICHARD CULPEPER <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> wrote: > > Both are unsafe for not wearing helmets. > > Richard Culpeper > http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/ > > On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:19:33 -0300 > John Winters <jdwinters_at_eastlink.ca> wrote: > > A person is paddling his kayak and not wearing a PFD. A person is > swimming beside him and not wearing a PFD. The one is > >considered unsafe the other not. Is it the kayak that is unsafe or the > not wearing of the PFD? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well John, I just don't no the answer to that one. Guess you will have to figure that one out yourself. :-) But I did get the biggest, genuine chuckle from Chuck's post today where he said: (snip) _"PFD strapped to the back deck (why the boat needs a PFD is not clear)" _ (snip) The sarcasm dripped like a fine wine spilling down the bottle's neck, but well worth the pouring over. Another absolute gem for paddlewise. Loved it. Doug > This does get a bit old. In all the years that paddlewise has debated over > whether a person should always wear a PFD not one person has ever given > an answer to this question. > > A person is paddling his kayak and not wearing a PFD. A person is swimming > beside him and not wearing a PFD. The one is considered unsafe the other > not. Is it the kayak that is unsafe or the not wearing of the PFD? > > Cheers > > John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Winters wrote: > A person is paddling his kayak and not wearing a PFD. A person is > swimming beside him and not wearing a PFD. The one is considered > unsafe the other not. Is it the kayak that is unsafe or the not > wearing of the PFD? Is this in "shark infested waters"? Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Its patently obvious which one is in more danger: The swimmer is because he might get hit in the head with the kayaker's paddle. The swimmer should be wearing a helmet. Its true that the kayaker is also unsafe by not wearing a PFD, but as soon as the kayaker falls out of the kayak in a storm they become a swimmer and aren't legally required to wear one anyways. To pass on good advice recently given to me: "Always wear a life jacket-- folks'll give you a wide berth in the grocery line." Best, Harvey --- John Winters <jdwinters_at_eastlink.ca> wrote: > This does get a bit old. In all the years that > paddlewise has debated over > whether a person should always wear a PFD not one > person has ever given an > answer to this question. > > A person is paddling his kayak and not wearing a > PFD. A person is swimming > beside him and not wearing a PFD. The one is > considered unsafe the other > not. Is it the kayak that is unsafe or the not > wearing of the PFD? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
We will never know for sure but the evidence we have points to the fact that Len had at least initiated a paddle float rescue. The PFD could nave tipped the balance in favor of death in two ways that I can see as possibilities. One, if Len let go of his boat and or paddle tethered to the boat the boat and paddle would blow away from him in the wind. if it blew away faster than he could swim with a PFD on but not faster than he could swim without (and there is a substantial drag from most PFDs) then the PFD may have contributed to his demise. Two, the bulk of a PFD makes it a little harder to slide oneself up on the deck of ones kayak while doing a paddle float rescue this conceivably make the difference between succeeding with the rescue or not so it is again possible the PFD could have contributed to his demise. I'd be interested to know if Len practiced the paddle float rescue by fixing the kayak to his kayak or by just holding the paddle in place (ala the ACA teaching of it). It is possible Len made it back in the cockpit several times but capsized again and again in trying to pump out his kayak. I forgot, was there a pump still with the kayak when it was found? If not maybe he lost it during one of the capsizes. The fact that his paddle was tethered to the boat but not under deck bungies is a slight bit of evidence that he may have been attempting the paddle float rescue using what I consider the inferior (for most situations) non-fixed outrigger, or maybe an paddle float aided re-enter and roll, both of which leave one more vulnerable to capsize during the pumping out part of the rescues. Pumping out is the part of rescues that rarely gets enough practice because of the work involved in pumping. I realize that this is pure speculation and that we are unlikely to ever know what actually happened since there were no witnesses. My point is that there are advantages and disadvantages to just about anything. One disadvantage of having a paddling partner not wearing a PFD is that if you get a great picture of them you would likely have a hard time selling it to a paddling publication or paddling advertiser. I've even used this as an argument (unsuccessfully) to try to get a paddler to wear his PFD. Even though I didn't feel I had the right to do so since he had paddled on far more exposed trips than I ever had (completely around Vancouver Island and the outside passage up to Glacier Bay, AK from Vancouver Island among them) and had better self rescue skills than I (he could jump back in a kayak in rough water with no floats necessary). I was willing to let him make his own choice in the matter and still paddle with him. That certainly wouldn't have been the case if he had been a novice. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Pumping out is the part of rescues that rarely gets enough practice because of the work involved in pumping." That is why it is so much better to have a foot pump or an electric pump. You use your paddle, for bracing as needed, while you pump out. Why struggle with a hand pump? Keep it as a backup. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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