Been out testing the junkrig for our Klepper XXL: http://foldingkayaks.org/gallery/A-lot-of-Junk%21?page=2 http://foldingkayaks.org/gallery/A-lot-of-Junk%21/P5192189 Best sail yet, but, as some of you might know, fairly complex to rig, super simple to use! Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Tord: Nice rig. But, is kayak sailing really kayaking? :-) Doug Lloyd > Been out testing the junkrig for our Klepper XXL: > > http://foldingkayaks.org/gallery/A-lot-of-Junk%21?page=2 > > http://foldingkayaks.org/gallery/A-lot-of-Junk%21/P5192189 > > Best sail yet, but, as some of you might know, fairly complex to rig, > super simple to use! > > Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 07:37, you wrote: > Yeah, they have a lot of hot wind down there! :-) Then Victoria must be a desert! Hot wind, indeed :-) ! Seriously, folks: A slightly narrower (higher AR, Aspect Ratio) sail would have been better, I guess. But going down-wind it is ideal as it is, and when sailing solo - just remember that you should add some 200 kgs of ballast, before putting to sea :-)!) Amazing how length affects drag in a positive way, while beam affects drag in a negative way, not least in wavey conditions. Derek van Loan, who used to build and sail very big junk-rigged boats, has lately, after retirement, scaled down a lot, so he's now sailing a junk-rigged canoe, and loves it! The reason we got into sailing our Kleppers in the first place was my bad right shoulder, and now the wife got a bad left hand (which might be OK after operation). Many sailing canoes are designed as sailing vessels, but some are called 50/50s, supposedly equally good as sailboats as canoes/kayaks, but speedy sailing canoes that also are good to paddle tends to be outriggers, or trimarans. Tord This would not be a good sailing vessel (as far as I know it doesn't come with sails - maybe next year?): http://www.alpackaraft.no/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&language=no&gclid=CJWJk9qHpIwCFRAFEgodnUKu6Q *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This is a compromise, Tord ;-). I like more serious approach, taken by this gentleman: http://alexm221100.googlepages.com/MADDOGSUE02.JPG I think this is BSD 32 sq.ft *2 .Upwind rig, a lot of sails, can tack upwind under the most of conditions, not to mention downwind or crosswind. I don't know why he is carrying a double-bladed kayaking paddle - on this kind of craft only one person would be able to paddle, which would result in speeds somewhwere up to 1.5 knots (with 2 people and outrigger). Makes more sense carrying 2 canoe paddles instead (this is what other people are doing on schooner-rigged trimaran doubles). With so much gear, heavy boat and no feasible paddling options one would inevitably realize the need to carry an outboard motor - and he carries it too. > Been out testing the junkrig for our Klepper XXL: > > http://foldingkayaks.org/gallery/A-lot-of-Junk%21?page=2 > > http://foldingkayaks.org/gallery/A-lot-of-Junk%21/P5192189 > > Best sail yet, but, as some of you might know, fairly complex to rig, > super simple to use! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Friday 25 May 2007 03:33, alex wrote: > This is a compromise, Tord ;-). I like more serious approach, taken by > this gentleman: > http://alexm221100.googlepages.com/MADDOGSUE02.JPG Serious? Costly, I would say! Some US$3000 (for basic versions, without wishbone, reefing, et cetera), if we include the outboard! My sails cost me about about US$350, Mark's nice designs a BIG bit more! I love Mark's gear and will this summer use a pair of his BOSSes ($105 each!), on new, folding akas, outrigger arms, of my very own design (The material for the new akas, cost me $50) ! Similar to the one we've used a number of years, but more rigid and folding! The aka holder will be upgraded, using scrap material I've got, and the mast bottom section reinforced with a massive aluminium rod. Oh, I forgot the cam cleats: about $25 apiece here (no local manufacturer, all imported from overseas), and we need eight, or more! Yikes! (the mizzen sheet, halyard and rudder lifter, that's three, the main sail's four downhauls, halyard, lazy jacks, luff parrel, that's seven more! Rats! By colour-coding the downhauls it shall be easy to see which is which, I hope (others have done it on their boats and liked it!). Haven't got that many cam cleats, so the mizzen halyard, the lazy jacks and the standing luff parrel will have to do without. My junk sail, plus mast (not including the mast foot, as that is used even when we aren't using the main sail) weighs about 9 lbs, the mast foot, plus the aka holder, the new akas and the amas about 16 lbs ( the latter figure a clever guess as I haven't built the new akas just yet - the old weighed 5 lbs, and the rigid ama 8 lbs (with water ballast 30 lbs). > I think this is BSD 32 sq.ft *2 . Looks like it! Up to $1700 apiece (including BOSSes)! > Upwind rig, a lot of sails, can tack > upwind under the most of conditions, > not to mention downwind or crosswind. Hope to attain the same, but having less sail area it will take a little longer :-)! But I have a spinnaker, jib, and a 4.2 D-Quad - that's another 50-60 sq.ft. The D-Quad will be carried much like Mark Balogh's TWINs, so it is foremost a downwind sail. But only the spinnaker makes sense together with the junk rig - used as a ghoster, of course :-)! The junk and mizzen are somewhere around 44 + 6 sq.ft, and both reefs instantly - do Mark's beauties do that? > I don't know why he is carrying a double-bladed kayaking > paddle - on this kind of craft only one person would be able to paddle, > which would result in speeds somewhwere up to 1.5 knots (with 2 people > and outrigger). Happy to say that our rig works perfectly with two double paddles, tested and proved! Rearseat paddler has absolutely no problems ever, the front seat might have some when paddling against the wind, with the sail raised! Down the junk rig is of no worry, in stark contrast to Klepper's S4 rig! Klepper also have a complex rig galled Freewind, which is a bit like Mark's TWINs, but the Klepper offering is suspended of a paddle, using that as the mast - so if you drop your paddle you can't sail, or you might break your paddle during sailing - neither my cup of tea! > Makes more > sense carrying 2 canoe paddles instead (this is what other people are > doing on schooner-rigged trimaran doubles). With so much gear, heavy > boat and no feasible paddling options one would inevitably realize the > need to carry an outboard motor - and he carries it too. We did that for a while, but it was hardly worth the effort! We, the wife and I, have decided that when we get older and more infirm we'll get a trolling motor to get us in and out of ports! And a 22' trailer for the assembled boat! Setting up a junk sail takes a wee while - and while at it I had omitted five of the lines, but only the yard hauling parrel on purpose (the other were the three batten downhauls and the standing luff parrel. The yard hauling parrel function I've automated - without such a line most junk sails, especially those with varying length yards, battens and boom, doesn't fold up nicely - not as bad as Klepper's, though). I had hoped the weight of the battens and the sail would make the batten downhauls superfluous, but definitely not! The standing luff parrel is essential if your mast is tapering - mine isn't! Anyway, junk sails are of the raise-and-forget ilk, like an Optimist's, but with excellent reefing characteristics. The best to you all, Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Okay Tord, you got me in the sailing mood - and my kayak's miniscule Spirit Sail wasn't enough, so I "crewed" on the Pacific Swift today out off the Victoria waterfront. It was a perfect day, sunny in the afternoon and over 30 knots, with the Swiftsure race going on in the background. I was aloft as the port side scuppers submerged. Awesome! The Pacific Swift schooner has over 4000 square feet of sail and is part of the very worthwhile fleet from the S.A.L.T. Society (Sailing and Life Training Society), who do challenging sailining adventures for young people around the island and Pacific Ocean. I climbed to the top of the mast, wanting to gain a different perspective after 30 years at sea level in a kayak. http://www.schoonerman.com/pacswi.htm The ropes we had to haul on were a little thicker than on your Klepper rig. Throat ready? Peak ready? Heave... Doug Lloyd (muscle-sore in Victoria) Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sunday 27 May 2007 05:16, you wrote: > Okay Tord, you got me in the sailing mood - and my kayak's miniscule > Spirit Sail wasn't enough, so I "crewed" on the Pacific Swift today out > off the Victoria waterfront. It was a perfect day, sunny in the > afternoon and over 30 knots, with the Swiftsure race going on in the > background. I was aloft as the port side scuppers submerged. Awesome! > > The Pacific Swift schooner has over 4000 square feet of sail and is part > of the very worthwhile fleet from the S.A.L.T. Society (Sailing and Life > Training Society), who do challenging sailining adventures for young > people around the island and Pacific Ocean. I climbed to the top of the > mast, wanting to gain a different perspective after 30 years at sea > level in a kayak. > > http://www.schoonerman.com/pacswi.htm > > The ropes we had to haul on were a little thicker than on your Klepper > rig. > > Throat ready? Peak ready? Heave... > Impressive little boat - our 'own' little one looks like this: http://www.gotheborg.com/canton/index.shtml Just on her sail to China and back, to the happy tune of half a billion Swedish kronor, somewhat less in Can$ (for building, crewing (the deck crews are volunteers - the officers pros), and maintaining ship, and crew - food, medicare, et cetera). The plan was that her building would be ready, and the test cruises over and done with, so that she could arrive 'back' at the night Hong Kong got out of British control (New Year 2000), but arrived some years later - always a lack of funds, and mishaps! Her origin was a ship that wrecked when arriving home to Gotheburg, after having sailed all the way to China to buy tea, porcellain & spices. It was then within swimming distance of her home town, when she sank! Today everyone believes it was an insurance scam, especially as lot of the cargo later was saved by deepwater divers - yes they were around even then! Persent version is updated, of course, with what the laws demand today, including a hefty diesel! As she's a PR operation her shedule is faily strict, so she has a time table of sorts, not waiting for wind in the doldrums, for instance! Lots of people have crewed her on her way, both Swedes and foreigners, and nobody knows what will happen when she's back along her own dock - will she sit there till Kingdom come, or? New EU laws demand that officers onboard any commercial ship need to be full-time professionals (if you get paid in any way it's commercial, according to the newly enforced laws), thus a lot of big training vessels here will be forced to stop training people in the art of seaman-ship! And that will include Gvtheborg, of course! Sigh! Tord PS Lucky Norwegians, being outside the EU! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sunday 27 May 2007 05:16, Doug wrote: > Okay Tord, you got me in the sailing mood - and my kayak's miniscule > Spirit Sail wasn't enough, so I "crewed" on the Pacific Swift today out > off the Victoria waterfront. Oh, I dunno. I'd love to have an afternoon aboard the Pacific Swift. But I also enjoyed myself yesterday sailing in from the Strait of Georgia back to Vancouver with my Pacfic Action sail (I also have a Spirit Sail and use them both together in light winds.) Short clip at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6M0l6iABw I especially enjoyed watching a motor yacht change course to check me out - unable to believe the little yellow object pounding through the waves was a kayak out there by choice, not a wreck or jetsam. Cheers, Philip ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Oh, I dunno. I'd love to have an afternoon aboard the Pacific Swift. But I also enjoyed myself yesterday > sailing in from the Strait of Georgia back to Vancouver with my Pacfic Action sail (I also have a Spirit Sail > and use them both together in light winds.) Short clip at: There is no clip, - but I know more or less how it looks. Downwind anything goes, you know... Do you find having 2 small downwind sails, 11 sq.ft and 8 sq.ft, spaced far apart, one fore and another - aft of the cockpit (if I recall it correct), helpful in sailing closer to the headwind? (not considering drift, which can't be helped without a leeboard of course). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; kayakwriter_at_aim.com Sent: Mon, 28 May 2007 7:07 pm Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Junkrigged Klepper >There is no clip, - Sorry about that. The link was there in my original email, but weirdly formatted so it was several blank lines down. It's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6M0l6iABw ?>but I know more or less how it looks. Downwind anything goes, you know... Do you find having 2 small downwind sails, 11 sq.ft and 8 sq.ft, spaced far apart, one fore and another - aft of the cockpit (if I recall it correct), helpful in sailing closer to the headwind? (not considering drift, which can't be helped without a leeboard of course). I actually use a tossed leeboard http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayakwriter/338674185/ which seems to give me about 10-15 degrees further off the wind. The two sails are both forward of the cockpit. They work best together on a broad reach (wind coming from over one shoulder or the other) so they don't block one another. Even with the leeboard, sailing across the wind usually isn't worth it speed-wise compared to paddling. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:44 PDT
