Thanks for the read. I've always felt the anti-rudder bias was more of an aesthetic issue to begin with. I'm glad to see my rudder usage coincides with yours albeit on my certainly reduced paddling level. I like to put it down when I paddle through Big Arch Rock when the water is a little squirelly as it keeps my line better than having to react to every shift change in the current, but on milder days I'll leave it up and sit and deal with the churn the old fashioned way. With as little as I use it, I sometime wish it just wasn't there, mostly as it's been ingrained in me that it's only a useless mechanical crutch not worthy of my faith in its reliability. Of course the people who believe that would really be upset with my electric bilge pump which was supposed to corrode into useless ballast as soon as it touched salt water, but has been performing yeomanly for a year now. I've spent my short kayaking life in my straight tracking QCC, so I've appreciate the little turning influance my rudder provides when I use it. One piece of advice I've ignored is to never use my rudder in the surf. I can only assume that admonition was mostly for landing on the beach, but for riding waves it's the only way to avoid my boat's desire to broach in a wave and allow me to get some nice rides. I don't think my QCC 500 was ever intended as a surf boat, so I'll take any mechanical advatage I can find. I found the plastic footpegs on my Seal Line rails are starting to crack and I'm not sure about the availability of replacements, so I have some rudder issues to deal with. I was lucky that my plastic Seal Line rails broke about a year after I had the boat and after emailing the company, they sent me new aluminum rails for free. They explained that the broken plastic rails were a rare, but occassional occurrance with the racing crowd, which gave me a chuckle. Guess they didn't realize which model of QCC I paddled. Anyway, I may be looking for an alternative peddle assembly, but it will have to combine some form of the stationary system of the Seal Line system for me. Mark Sanders ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> > Having said all this, I'd still prefer not to have to use a rudder if it > was possible. I'm sure a good, chined kayak, probably with a well made > skeg used when demanding conditions extend for hours, combined with > well-healed, improved paddling skills would sufficiently meet my own > arbitrary requirements 90% of the time - even 95%. But that still isn't > 100%. > > Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A well reasoned point of view, Doug. Mark, all I could add would be to swap your rudder cables over, so that when you push with your left foot you go right, and vice versa. My reasoning is that if you have already, or are working on, developing your boat control skills using strokes and railing, then you will apply pressure on the outside foot peg to turn. It makes little sense, and is difficult to do, to then apply pressure on the over peg to activate a rudder. This means that the same technique is used regardless of wether or not the rudder is deployed. I have always suggested that here, where most sea paddlers use rudders, with little uptake. One paddler has just changed over, after taking a class by Nigel Foster, who got him thinking about railing and balance. I'm not sure that Nigel would see the irony in this! Also, when you replace the foot pegs, have a look into building "gas-pedal" style controls. This gives you solid bracing with good control and comfort. Cheers JKA -- John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Kirk-Anderson wrote: > One paddler has just changed over, after > taking a class by Nigel Foster, who got him thinking about railing > and balance. My boat does not have a railing. What are you referring to here? Steve -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
For Railing, read Edging. on 18/6/07 09:50, Steve Cramer at cramersec_at_charter.net wrote: > John Kirk-Anderson wrote: >> One paddler has just changed over, after >> taking a class by Nigel Foster, who got him thinking about railing >> and balance. > > My boat does not have a railing. What are you referring to here? > > Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John said (snip): > I have always suggested that here, where most sea paddlers use rudders, > with > little uptake. One paddler has just changed over, after taking a class by > Nigel Foster, who got him thinking about railing and balance. I'm not sure > that Nigel would see the irony in this! Kind of like the irony when Matt Broze suggests this same cross-over of rudder cables. Matt got me thinking about this a few years ago and I eventually made the switch, but found my "muscle memory" too well developed to make the change natural. I switched back. I'd certainly recommend someone new to rudders make the change immediately. The irony of course, is Mattt and Cam designed/made kayaks that excelled without rudders. Doug L *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It's certainly too late for me to change my rudder cables. Kayaks with "normal" rudder pedals react exactly the same as my 1946 taildraggers (1 Luscombe and 1 Taylorcraft) did. Not to mention my glider (with an almost steerable tailwheel). I'd be lost crossing the cables. I also find that I don't put any pressure on the rudder pedals (on the sea kayak) or the bulkhead (on the w/w kayaks) because my paddling position has my knees touching the underside of the cockpit. I just add pressure to the appropriate knee and, viola!, the kayak edges nicely. Craig Jungers Royal City, wa On 6/18/07, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > > John said (snip): > > I have always suggested that here, where most sea paddlers use rudders, > > with > > little uptake. One paddler has just changed over, after taking a class > by > > Nigel Foster, who got him thinking about railing and balance. I'm not > sure > > that Nigel would see the irony in this! > > Kind of like the irony when Matt Broze suggests this same cross-over of > rudder cables. Matt got me thinking about this a few years ago and I > eventually made the switch, but found my "muscle memory" too well > developed to make the change natural. I switched back. I'd certainly recommend > someone new to rudders make the change immediately. The irony of course, is Mattt > and Cam designed/made kayaks that excelled without rudders. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That pretty much sums up how I feel too (minus the fly-boy, sky-man stuff). I'd also recommend not using a rudder for the first year or so, or taking it off for the same amount of time when one first gets into kayaking. I'm appreciative of my initial tutelage without the rudder. It's certainly too late for me to change my rudder cables. Kayaks with "normal" rudder pedals react exactly the same as my 1946 taildraggers (1 Luscombe and 1 Taylorcraft) did. Not to mention my glider (with an almost steerable tailwheel). I'd be lost crossing the cables. I also find that I don't put any pressure on the rudder pedals (on the sea kayak) or the bulkhead (on the w/w kayaks) because my paddling position has my knees touching the underside of the cockpit. I just add pressure to the appropriate knee and, viola!, the kayak edges nicely. Craig Jungers Royal City, wa On 6/18/07, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: John said (snip): > I have always suggested that here, where most sea paddlers use rudders, > with > little uptake. One paddler has just changed over, after taking a class by > Nigel Foster, who got him thinking about railing and balance. I'm not sure > that Nigel would see the irony in this! Kind of like the irony when Matt Broze suggests this same cross-over of rudder cables. Matt got me thinking about this a few years ago and I eventually made the switch, but found my "muscle memory" too well developed to make the change natural. I switched back. I'd certainly recommend someone new to rudders make the change immediately. The irony of course, is Mattt and Cam designed/made kayaks that excelled without rudders. Doug L *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:44 PDT