Having broken another paddle at last weeks practice session, I decided I ought to get my Greenland paddle up and working. Like most projects I start, it had been sitting in my garage 3/4 finished since I last took it out. I had hacked it up a bit since my first try, as it was just too beefy, so I spent last night hewing away in earnest. Must of whittled off another 10 ounces, so now it's nice and light and ready to join my quiver of other broken paddles. I hit the water around 9 this morning. The start of school and a cool morning made for small crowds on the Island. I'll be sorry when I finally coat the GP, as watching the wood change color on its first dipping of a paddle is a treat. It didn't take long to get used to paddling with it again and I made good time out of the harbor. My main concern with a GP is I have a rather considerable mass and when playing around rocks and such, sometimes you like to have the ability to really pour on some speed to avoid certain conditions. I don't feel too limited with my GP, but sometimes every little bit helps. Today's conditions were rather mild, so I didn't have too much concern. I only spent a little time behind BAR, as I always get nervous when divers show up with spear guns! I know I must be a sissy, but when they come up to reload, I can just envision an errant shot ruining my day. Thought I might run into some CKFs returning from earlier morning jaunts, but was disappointed. It was just me and the Garibaldi sharing the crystal clear water of Crystal Cove. Even the beach was mostly deserted. Just the occasional jogger to ooh and aah at me as I took another wave in the face playing by the shore. After playing in the waves for a while I went and hung out in the swells rolling in to Baby Cave Cove and then decided to call it a day. I had planned to try some GP rolling in the harbor, but the cold water temps today dissuaded me. It's getting to that time when you need to put on the rubber to play upside down anymore! Mark www.sandmarks.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Mark, Why not just leave your GP with no coating? I have a bunch of western red cedar GP's that I have made and I tend to leave them with no finish (natural) unless there is a good reason to coat them with something. Those that I have coated have been primarily because of some splits and splinters that started to annoy me on certain paddles. An unfinished paddle doesn't get slippery when wet, which can happen if you go and put some shiny finish on it. As for the lack of pure power ability, that can be a problem. The only solution I have there is to work on your sliding stroke. You can get a lot of power out of an extended paddle and if you can get your slide to be smooth and fast, you can muscle your way through some gnarly situations. That being said, I personally don't do much surf paddling where you might really benefit from a powerful stroke, but I do paddle a lot in currents and eddies where some muscle is needed. Happy Skinny Sticking! P.S. What is a CKF? Chilly Kayak Friend? Certified Kayak Fiend? Mark Goff Hampden, Maine ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Goffma_at_aol.com wrote: [snip] > > P.S. What is a CKF? Chilly Kayak Friend? Certified Kayak Fiend? > > Mark Goff > Hampden, Maine California Kayak Friends if I remember right. mark -- # # mark zen -- fort lupton, colorado, usa #-========----============--=========--===- # ckayakr[at]dotzen[dot]org------------http://www.dotzen.org/paddler/ # o, o__ o_/| o_. o__/ # </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ [\/ # (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') `\--------/--------/' #~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~/~~~~~~~~~~~~~ # Semi-Random Fortune ... # A bug in the hand is better than one as yet undetected. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark wrote -- Why not just leave your GP with no coating? Agree and strongly support no finish on a Greenland paddle. I have a couple of cedar paddles that are over ten years old -- or older -- and have never added a finish -- other than a little tung oil on occasion. Also carry a fine grit sanding sponge with me and wipe down the paddle -- wet sanding, basically -- when it gets a little fuzzy. The grip on an unfinished paddle is consistent and predictable, and the wood doesn't lose any functionality. On the other hand, small cracks in a finishing sealant could trap traces of water at the wood surface and cause decay in the long haul. Re power, you'll never overcome the difference between a Europaddle and a Greenland stick, but the indigenous people who developed them haven't converted to Euros very much, and they can punch out through big water pretty well with what they've got. Lots of it is technique, and a lot is culture. If wide boards drifted up on the beaches of historic Greenland, maybe we'd all be using Europaddles. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'll keep that in mind. My paddle is a rather loose grained whitish cedar. I know a few people who don't coat theirs, but it just doesn't seem right that you can use it in the water all the time without coating it with something. I am planning on coating it with epoxy, but I'll probably take it out a few more times to see what I think about leaving it unfinished. I thought about just covering the tips of the blades to give them a little protection, but that sounds like a bad idea now. Mark Sanders California Kayaking Friend--only chilly on occasion www.sandmarks.net -----Original Message----- Why not just leave your GP with no coating? Happy Skinny Sticking! P.S. What is a CKF? Chilly Kayak Friend? Certified Kayak Fiend? Mark Goff Hampden, Maine *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Sanders wrote: > I'll keep that in mind. My paddle is a rather loose grained whitish cedar. That is an odd shade for western red cedar. Is it Alaska yellow cedar (actually a cypress species)? The former almost always has some red shades in it, smells like "cedar" and has a pleasant odor; the latter has kind of a funky, musty smell to it, and is not as rot-resistant as the former, although a bit heavier, tougher, and stronger. Either will hold up well to salt water if allowed to dry between uses. I would no put epoxy on either. If you must dress it, use an oil that is absorbed by the wood without masking the grain. The oil will protect the wood without destroying its exterior roughness. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well, this one is genuine Santa Ana Whitish Cedar. That's the best I could find in my area. As it was my first try, I figured I'd go for what ever was available and cheap. They had it marked "cedar", but this was in the "fencing" section. Anyway, it looks pretty when wet and pushes water. www.sandmarks.net/yearend/mygear.jpg MS -----Original Message----- That is an odd shade for western red cedar. Is it Alaska yellow cedar (actually a cypress species)? The former almost always has some red shades in it, smells like "cedar" and has a pleasant odor; the latter has kind of a funky, musty smell to it, and is not as rot-resistant as the former, although a bit heavier, tougher, and stronger. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Sanders wrote: > Well, this one is genuine Santa Ana Whitish Cedar. That's the best I could > find in my area. As it was my first try, I figured I'd go for what ever was > available and cheap. They had it marked "cedar", but this was in the > "fencing" section. Anyway, it looks pretty when wet and pushes water. > www.sandmarks.net/yearend/mygear.jpg Mark, that looks like WRC, which comes in some lighter variants, such as the photo shows. AYC is a lot lighter-colored, with nary a hint of red in it. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paddlewisers, Epoxy has to applied in thin coats, usually two, to prevent drips. I have coated about ten wooden paddles with epoxy and never had any drips. If epoxy is so terrible, I can't understand why two of the most respected Greenland paddle makers use it on their paddles: Superior Kayaks: http://www.superiorkayaks.com/superiorkayaks011.htm Beale Paddles: http://bealepaddles.com/laminate.htm I've made Greenland paddles with a tung oil finish too. It works too and is a simple way to care for a paddle. What it all really comes down to is whether you like the more natural look and feel of wood or like using modern materials to protect the wood. Duane Southern California www.rollordrown.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Duane said: > Epoxy has to applied in thin coats, usually two, to prevent drips. I > have coated about ten wooden paddles with epoxy and never had any drips. Do you use a slow-cure epoxy? I find that especially as it starts to cure, the normal-cure epoxy gets hard to brush out thin. Anyway, I found that epoxy doesn't protect the paddle from dings appreciably better than tung oil (unless you apply several layers -- and why go to all that effort?) and is harder to repair, especially if the last coat is polyurethane varnish. Chuck Holst Currently gluing together a new set of kayak saddles (with built-in storage for Greenland paddles) using West System epoxy. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck, I use slow cure epoxy, specifically West System. As soon as I mix it, I brush it on with a foam brush, just like I would a thin coat of paint or varnish. The brushing on is done immediately, well before the epoxy begins to cure, and then left alone until cured. I agree that repairing a ding in epoxy is more work than with just a tung oil finish. That's part of the reason I don't add paint or vanish to my epoxy coated wood paddles. I can just sand the ding a little, dab on a little epoxy, let it cure, and sand smooth. Again, epoxy or tung oil are both fine, and which is used is just a matter of personal preference. If I wanted to be more traditional and paddled a skinboat, I'd match it with a solid wood Greenland paddle coated with tung oil, which is exactly what I used for a while in the late 1990's. Duane cholst_at_bitstream.net wrote: Duane said: > Epoxy has to applied in thin coats, usually two, to prevent drips. I > have coated about ten wooden paddles with epoxy and never had any drips. Do you use a slow-cure epoxy? I find that especially as it starts to cure, the normal-cure epoxy gets hard to brush out thin. Anyway, I found that epoxy doesn't protect the paddle from dings appreciably better than tung oil (unless you apply several layers -- and why go to all that effort?) and is harder to repair, especially if the last coat is polyurethane varnish. Chuck Holst Currently gluing together a new set of kayak saddles (with built-in storage for Greenland paddles) using West System epoxy. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark wrote, "I am planning on coating it with epoxy, but I'll probably take it out a few more times to see what I think about leaving it unfinished. I thought about just covering the tips of the blades to give them a little protection, but that sounds like a bad idea now." Having done both -- coating a storm paddle with epoxy and covering the tips of an early stick with a plastic compound to simulate the indigenous peoples' use of bone tips and edges -- don't. Cracks in the epoxy trapped water inside the paddle and eventually led to material failure; prior to that, it just made the paddle slippery -- not a good thing in a storm paddle. The tips also trapped moisture in the wood -- only faster. Keep it natural -- so much better feel and grip. The wood doesn't care. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kayakers, I make my wooden paddles, both Euro and Greenland, from Sitka Spruce. After raising the grain with water and sanding smooth again, I harden the wood with the edge of a screw driver. Then I use two coats of epoxy. I can adjust the grip with 400 grit sand paper and synthetic steel wool. The durability is good, and occasionally I make small repairs by adding a dab of epoxy. No finish used. Euro paddle building: http://www.rollordrown.com/kayak/paddle.html My Greenland paddle specs: http://www.rollordrown.com/kayak/woodgp.html Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm joining the chorus against using epoxy. I tried it once. The epoxy sagged and dripped, so I had to sand it down. But I accidentally sanded down to the wood, so I had to reapply the epoxy, which sagged again, so more sanding (more carefully this time). Then I applied a coat or two of polyurethane for UV protection. In the end I had a wood paddle that felt like plastic and had a too-smooth finish that grabbed when wet. I was so disatisfied, I sanded it all off and applied tung oil instead. Never again. BTW, if you decide on an unfinished paddle, be sure to wet it to raise the grain before you do the final sanding. I failed to do this with my first paddle, and the grain raised enough during my first trip with it (in the Broken Group) to cause blisters. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark, Most of us "Stick People" from CKF use an oil finish on our sticks. Tung oil mixed with linseed oil works well. Steve Holtzman Southern Calif Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/11/2007 8:34:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, strosaker_at_yahoo.com writes: Epoxy has to applied in thin coats, usually two, to prevent drips. I have coated about ten wooden paddles with epoxy and never had any drips. If epoxy is so terrible, I can't understand why two of the most respected Greenland paddle makers use it on their paddles: Superior Kayaks: http://www.superiorkayaks.com/superiorkayaks011.htm Beale Paddles: http://bealepaddles.com/laminate.htm I've made Greenland paddles with a tung oil finish too. It works too and is a simple way to care for a paddle. What it all really comes down to is whether you like the more natural look and feel of wood or like using modern materials to protect the wood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I completely agree with Duane. I'll add that Mitchell paddles also uses epoxy. It is just a matter of whether or not you like epoxy. I do. Cheers, Rob G ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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