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From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:15:31 -0700
Having broken another paddle at last weeks practice session, I decided I
ought to get my Greenland paddle up and working. Like most projects I start,
it had been sitting in my garage 3/4 finished since I last took it out. I
had hacked it up a bit since my first try, as it was just too beefy, so I
spent last night hewing away in earnest. Must of whittled off another 10
ounces, so now it's nice and light and ready to join my quiver of other
broken paddles.

I hit the water around 9 this morning. The start of school and a cool
morning made for small crowds on the Island. I'll be sorry when I finally
coat the GP, as watching the wood change color on its first dipping of a
paddle is a treat. It didn't take long to get used to paddling with it again
and I made good time out of the harbor.

My main concern with a GP is I have a rather considerable mass and when
playing around rocks and such, sometimes you like to have the ability to
really pour on some speed to avoid certain conditions. I don't feel too
limited with my GP, but sometimes every little bit helps. Today's conditions
were rather mild, so I didn't have too much concern.

I only spent a little time behind BAR, as I always get nervous when divers
show up with spear guns! I know I must be a sissy, but when they come up to
reload, I can just envision an errant shot ruining my day.

Thought I might run into some CKFs returning from earlier morning jaunts,
but was disappointed. It was just me and the Garibaldi sharing the crystal
clear water of Crystal Cove. Even the beach was mostly deserted. Just the
occasional jogger to ooh and aah at me as I took another wave in the face
playing by the shore. After playing in the waves for a while I went and hung
out in the swells rolling in to Baby Cave Cove and then decided to call it a
day. I had planned to try some GP rolling in the harbor, but the cold water
temps today dissuaded me. It's getting to that time when you need to put on
the rubber to play upside down anymore!

Mark
www.sandmarks.net
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From: <Goffma_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:45:30 EDT
Hi Mark,
 
Why not just leave your GP with no coating?  I have a bunch of western  red 
cedar GP's that I have made and I tend to leave them with no finish  (natural) 
unless there is a good reason to coat them with something.  Those  that I have 
coated have been primarily because of some splits and splinters that  started 
to annoy me on certain paddles.  An unfinished paddle doesn't get  slippery 
when wet, which can happen if you go and put some shiny finish on  it.  
 
As for the lack of pure power ability, that can be a  problem.  The only 
solution I have there is to work on your sliding stroke.  You can get a lot of 
power out of an extended paddle and if you can get your  slide to be smooth and 
fast, you can muscle your way through some gnarly  situations.  That being 
said, I personally don't do much surf paddling  where you might really benefit 
from a powerful stroke, but I do paddle a lot in  currents and eddies where some 
muscle is needed.
 
Happy Skinny Sticking!
 
P.S.  What is a CKF?  Chilly Kayak Friend?  Certified Kayak  Fiend?  
 
Mark Goff
Hampden, Maine



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From: mark <ckayakr_at_dotzen.org>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:58:27 -0600
Goffma_at_aol.com wrote:

[snip]
>  
> P.S.  What is a CKF?  Chilly Kayak Friend?  Certified Kayak  Fiend?  
>  
> Mark Goff
> Hampden, Maine
California Kayak Friends if I remember right.

mark

-- 
#
# mark zen -- fort lupton,  colorado,  usa
#-========----============--=========--===-
# ckayakr[at]dotzen[dot]org------------http://www.dotzen.org/paddler/
#      o,    o__              o_/|   o_.                o__/
#     </     [\/              [\_|   [\_\               [\/
#  (`-/-------/----')      (`----|-------\-')  `\--------/--------/'
#~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~/~~~~~~~~~~~~~
# Semi-Random Fortune ...
#    A bug in the hand is better than one as yet undetected.
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From: Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:48:48 -0600
Mark wrote -- Why not just leave your GP with no coating?

Agree and strongly support no finish on a Greenland paddle.  I have a
couple of cedar paddles that are over ten years old -- or older -- and
have never added a finish -- other than a little tung oil on occasion.
Also carry a fine grit sanding sponge with me and wipe down the paddle
-- wet sanding, basically -- when it gets a little fuzzy.  The grip on
an unfinished paddle is consistent and predictable, and the wood doesn't
lose any functionality.  On the other hand, small cracks in a finishing
sealant could trap traces of water at the wood surface and cause decay
in the long haul.

Re power, you'll never overcome the difference between a Europaddle and
a Greenland stick, but the indigenous people who developed them haven't
converted to Euros very much, and they can punch out through big water
pretty well with what they've got.  Lots of it is technique, and a lot
is culture.  If wide boards drifted up on the beaches of historic
Greenland, maybe we'd all be using Europaddles.

Joq
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From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:22:52 -0700
I'll keep that in mind. My paddle is a rather loose grained whitish cedar. I
know a few people who don't coat theirs, but it just doesn't seem right that
you can use it in the water all the time without coating it with something.
I am planning on coating it with epoxy, but I'll probably take it out a few
more times to see what I think about leaving it unfinished. I thought about
just covering the tips of the blades to give them a little protection, but
that sounds like a bad idea now.

Mark Sanders
California Kayaking Friend--only chilly on occasion
www.sandmarks.net

-----Original Message-----

 Why not just leave your GP with no coating?
Happy Skinny Sticking!

P.S.  What is a CKF?  Chilly Kayak Friend?  Certified Kayak  Fiend?

Mark Goff
Hampden, Maine
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:35:33 -0700
Mark Sanders wrote:
> I'll keep that in mind. My paddle is a rather loose grained whitish cedar.

That is an odd shade for western red cedar.  Is it Alaska yellow cedar 
(actually a cypress species)?  The former almost always has some red shades 
in it, smells like "cedar" and has a pleasant odor; the latter has kind of 
a funky, musty smell to it, and is not as rot-resistant as the former, 
although a bit heavier, tougher, and stronger.

Either will hold up well to salt water if allowed to dry between uses.  I 
would no put epoxy on either.  If you must dress it, use an oil that is 
absorbed by the wood without masking the grain.  The oil will protect the 
wood without destroying its exterior roughness.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:29:17 -0700
Well, this one is genuine Santa Ana Whitish Cedar. That's the best I could
find in my area. As it was my first try, I figured I'd go for what ever was
available and cheap. They had it marked "cedar", but this was in the
"fencing" section. Anyway, it looks pretty when wet and pushes water.

www.sandmarks.net/yearend/mygear.jpg

MS

-----Original Message-----


That is an odd shade for western red cedar.  Is it Alaska yellow cedar
(actually a cypress species)?  The former almost always has some red shades
in it, smells like "cedar" and has a pleasant odor; the latter has kind of
a funky, musty smell to it, and is not as rot-resistant as the former,
although a bit heavier, tougher, and stronger.


--
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:52:48 -0700
Mark Sanders wrote:
> Well, this one is genuine Santa Ana Whitish Cedar. That's the best I could
> find in my area. As it was my first try, I figured I'd go for what ever was
> available and cheap. They had it marked "cedar", but this was in the
> "fencing" section. Anyway, it looks pretty when wet and pushes water.

> www.sandmarks.net/yearend/mygear.jpg

Mark, that looks like WRC, which comes in some lighter variants, such as 
the photo shows.  AYC is a lot lighter-colored, with nary a hint of red in it.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
Paddlewisers,
   
  Epoxy has to applied in thin coats, usually two, to prevent drips. I have coated about ten wooden paddles with epoxy and never had any drips.
   
  If epoxy is so terrible, I can't understand why two of the most respected Greenland paddle makers use it on their paddles:
   
  Superior Kayaks: http://www.superiorkayaks.com/superiorkayaks011.htm
   
  Beale Paddles: http://bealepaddles.com/laminate.htm
   
  I've made Greenland paddles with a tung oil finish too. It works too and is a simple way to care for a paddle.
   
  What it all really comes down to is whether you like the more natural look and feel of wood or like using modern materials to protect the wood.
   
  Duane
  Southern California
  www.rollordrown.com
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From: <cholst_at_bitstream.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:15:09 -0500 (CDT)
Duane said:

>   Epoxy has to applied in thin coats, usually two, to prevent drips. I
> have coated about ten wooden paddles with epoxy and never had any drips.

Do you use a slow-cure epoxy? I find that especially as it starts to cure,
the normal-cure epoxy gets hard to brush out thin. Anyway, I found that
epoxy doesn't protect the paddle from dings appreciably better than tung
oil (unless you apply several layers -- and why go to all that effort?)
and is harder to repair, especially if the last coat is polyurethane
varnish.

Chuck Holst
Currently gluing together a new set of kayak saddles (with built-in
storage for Greenland paddles) using West System epoxy.
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From: Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:56:34 -0700 (PDT)
Chuck,
   
  I use slow cure epoxy, specifically West System. As soon as I mix it, I brush it on with a foam brush, just like I would a thin coat of paint or varnish. The brushing on is done immediately, well before the epoxy begins to cure, and then left alone until cured.
   
  I agree that repairing a ding in epoxy is more work than with just a tung oil finish. That's part of the reason I don't add paint or vanish to my epoxy coated wood paddles. I can just sand the ding a little, dab on a little epoxy, let it cure, and sand smooth.
   
  Again, epoxy or tung oil are both fine, and which is used is just a matter of personal preference. If I wanted to be more traditional and paddled a skinboat, I'd match it with a solid wood Greenland paddle coated with tung oil, which is exactly what I used for a while in the late 1990's.
   
  Duane
  

cholst_at_bitstream.net wrote:
  Duane said:

> Epoxy has to applied in thin coats, usually two, to prevent drips. I
> have coated about ten wooden paddles with epoxy and never had any drips.

Do you use a slow-cure epoxy? I find that especially as it starts to cure,
the normal-cure epoxy gets hard to brush out thin. Anyway, I found that
epoxy doesn't protect the paddle from dings appreciably better than tung
oil (unless you apply several layers -- and why go to all that effort?)
and is harder to repair, especially if the last coat is polyurethane
varnish.

Chuck Holst
Currently gluing together a new set of kayak saddles (with built-in
storage for Greenland paddles) using West System epoxy.
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From: Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:16:00 -0600
Mark wrote, "I am planning on coating it with epoxy, but I'll probably
take it out a few more times to see what I think about leaving it
unfinished. I thought about just covering the tips of the blades to give
them a little protection, but that sounds like a bad idea now."

Having done both -- coating a storm paddle with epoxy and covering the
tips of an early stick with a plastic compound to simulate the
indigenous peoples' use of bone tips and edges -- don't.  Cracks in the
epoxy trapped water inside the paddle and eventually led to material
failure; prior to that, it just made the paddle slippery -- not a good
thing in a storm paddle.  The tips also trapped moisture in the wood --
only faster.  

Keep it natural -- so much better feel and grip.  The wood doesn't care.

Joq
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From: Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:20:42 -0700 (PDT)
Kayakers,
   
  I make my wooden paddles, both Euro and Greenland, from Sitka Spruce. After raising the grain with water and sanding smooth again, I harden the wood with the edge of a screw driver. Then I use two coats of epoxy. I can adjust the grip with 400 grit sand paper and synthetic steel wool. The durability is good, and occasionally I make small repairs by adding a dab of epoxy. No finish used.
   
  Euro paddle building:
   
  http://www.rollordrown.com/kayak/paddle.html
   
  My Greenland paddle specs:
   
  http://www.rollordrown.com/kayak/woodgp.html
   
  Duane
  Southern California
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From: <cholst_at_bitstream.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:27:06 -0500 (CDT)
I'm joining the chorus against using epoxy. I tried it once. The epoxy
sagged and dripped, so I had to sand it down. But I accidentally sanded
down to the wood, so I had to reapply the epoxy, which sagged again, so
more sanding (more carefully this time). Then I applied a coat or two of
polyurethane for UV protection. In the end I had a wood paddle that felt
like plastic and had a too-smooth finish that grabbed when wet. I was so
disatisfied, I sanded it all off and applied tung oil instead. Never
again.

BTW, if you decide on an unfinished paddle, be sure to wet it to raise the
grain before you do the final sanding. I failed to do this with my first
paddle, and the grain raised enough during my first trip with it (in the
Broken Group) to cause blisters.

Chuck Holst
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From: Steve Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:55:54 +0000
Mark,

Most of us "Stick People" from CKF use an oil finish on our sticks. Tung oil mixed with linseed oil works well. 

Steve Holtzman
Southern Calif 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stick paddle
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:12:37 EDT
In a message dated 9/11/2007 8:34:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,  
strosaker_at_yahoo.com writes:

Epoxy  has to applied in thin coats, usually two, to prevent drips. I have 
coated  about ten wooden paddles with epoxy and never had any drips.

If epoxy is so terrible, I can't understand why two of the most  respected 
Greenland paddle makers use it on their paddles:

Superior Kayaks:  http://www.superiorkayaks.com/superiorkayaks011.htm

Beale Paddles: http://bealepaddles.com/laminate.htm

I've made Greenland paddles with a tung oil finish too. It works too and is a 
 simple way to care for a paddle.

What it all really  comes down to is whether you like the more natural look 
and feel of wood or  like using modern materials to protect the wood.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
I completely agree with Duane. I'll add that Mitchell paddles also uses  
epoxy. It is just a matter of whether or not you like epoxy. I do.
 
Cheers,
 
Rob G



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