For some time now I've been kicking around the idea of providing my own "mothership" for kayaking adventures. While I enjoy camping I'm not getting any younger and it would be nice to sleep in a nice comfy bunk with books and snacks close at hand. But the major reason is the incredible mobility a mothership gives a kayaker. With many areas of the eastern North Pacific (mostly Washington and British Columbia) inaccessible to automobiles and requiring hundreds of miles of paddling, a mothership - even a relatively modest mothership - could give me access to paddling grounds over a long weekend that would otherwise require a week or more. My wife's reaction to getting yet-another boat was predictable and need not be explored in this forum (or any forum with children or sensitive adults present). I'm confident that I can wear her down eventually. :) Meanwhile I've been platting... er, planning ahead. Speed is not necessarily an issue. I spent years cruising sailboats with 5kt cruising averages and can happily motor all night with no ill effects (with enough coffee). One can cover quite a lot of distance in a 7kt powerboat in 24 hours. But a planing hull would be nice provided the engine were econnomical and efficient. At first my thoughts were to get a trawler-style single-engine diesel with two staterooms. CHB 34-footers are pretty common in the $35k to $55k range but the major drawback (besides spending the money to buy one) is the expense of the moorage (dockspace). So one of my brighter ideas was to use "Dagmars" in Everett for dry storage. Dagmars is unique in the area in that they offer prodigious dry storage space for relatively large boats, but they include several round-trip launches per month in the fee. The launches are provided by enormous fork-lifts which can rapidly retrieve and launch numerous boats up to about 45-feet in length (depending upon weight, of course). They also have dock space for mooring while your boat is in the water and actually *require* you to stay aboard your boat while it's at these docks. Imagine that... they actually WANT you to use your boat!!! Unfortunately Dagmars thinks that trawler-style hulls are not well suited to their fork-lift launch and retrieval method. Nor are most sailboats. They much prefer flat-bottomed power boats. So back to the drawing board. I'd prefer a diesel engine because even though it's a little more expensive and tends to smell up the boat a bit, it's a lot safer from a fire standpoint and also more efficient in terms of BTUs available. However most diesels are either on very large (and very expensive) powerboats or in trawler-style hulls (or sailboats). There are remarkably few diesel-powered cabin cruisers in the 24 to 28 foot range. So how about a trailer-boat? Another can of worms. Bayliners and their ilk are cheap but offer little in the way of any accommodations for carrying kayaks. Sloped foredecks, tiny cockpits, no horizontal surfaces, poor handling and gas engines abound in the 22 to 28 foot range. I've also considered one of the older (and I can hardly bear to say this) wooden power boats. Many of these were wonderfully constructed and have been lovingly maintained. In addition, their prices can be ridiculously low. And perhaps, just perhaps, with judicious (ok, lavish) applications of epoxy resin and glass fiber they can be made to be relatively low maintenance. These older boats often offer long, flat cabin tops perfect for holding several kayaks. And their interiors, while not as roomy as the bigger trawler-style boats, are warm and cozy. Unfortunately they also were commonly gas powered and many remain that way. So those are my ideas. Anyone out there have experience in their own mothership and a few new ideas I may have overlooked? Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > So those are my ideas. Anyone out there have experience in their own > mothership and a few new ideas I may have overlooked? Craig, I think you know I am almost finished with a 20-ft Bartender, powered by a 2.2 L Mazda gasoline engine, which we will be our mothership, using folding kayaks. (Photos here: http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2099385480 ) This type of power boat, in a 26-ft version, might fill the bill for you. A high-performance diesel would push it efficiently, and allow it to plane, or, operate in displacement mode at low speed. This type of hull is pretty efficient, either way. This guy is most of the way done with a 26-footer, and he will use diesel power: http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2131384167&idx=0 He is in Hillsboro, I think; he is much farther along than the photos indicate; in fact, just beginning to lay out the power plant and running gear. The next time you are down, give me a call. There are a couple of these around here, albeit none diesel-powered, except a 22-ft aluminum one, which I would not recommend. If you are patient and a bit resourceful, you can find older hulls which are still sound, and a re-power with a modern diesel might do the trick for you. Here is the main Bartender site: http://bartenderboats.com/index.html -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Monday 05 November 2007 06:03, Craig wrote: > For some time now I've been kicking around the idea of providing my own > "mothership" for kayaking adventures. That's how we ended up with our Klepper XXL - big enough to carry a sizeable load with ease to base, and then fooling around from there! Only part missing is a trolling motor out on the starboard outrigger arm :-)! Alternatively a combined windmill/propeller/rotor, that can double as provider of power and propulsion, and be our very own cooling fan :-)! Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think the mothership is a fantastic idea as 60% of my kayaking is with the husband and kids. We're ready to branch out and began our search for a mothership about 4 months ago. Since we're in the Portland area we need something large enough to go from here up to the San Juan's and beyond. Minimum 50ft, twin screw, diesel and enough accomodations for two adults and two kids. Oh and did I mention cheap? And not a hunk of junk? We're still looking. Melinda > For some time now I've been kicking around the idea of providing my own > "mothership" for kayaking adventures. While I enjoy camping I'm not getting > any younger and it would be nice to sleep in a nice comfy bunk with books > and snacks close at hand. But the major reason is the incredible mobility a > mothership gives a kayaker. With many areas of the eastern North Pacific > (mostly Washington and British Columbia) inaccessible to automobiles and > requiring hundreds of miles of paddling, a mothership - even a relatively > modest mothership - could give me access to paddling grounds over a long > weekend that would otherwise require a week or more. > So those are my ideas. Anyone out there have experience in their own > mothership and a few new ideas I may have overlooked? > > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This is shaping up to be a good thread, I think. Regarding Dave's comments on the bartender: I had forgotten how nice these little boats are. The 26-foot model may be exactly what I'm looking for. I'm pretty sure I don't want a year project though. I built a 32-foot boat and swore "never again". LOL Mike Euritt's cautions regarding Asian trawlers are well taken. I looked at a Ponderosa with spongy decks just last week. The problem with cored decks is compounded by putting beautiful teak decks on them and all the accompanying fasteners. We once owned a wooden sailboat and it was an expensive educational experience. Especially the transom. But this was before being able to use epoxy to treat dry rotted areas. Back then all you could do is cut the rot completely out and sister up or replace whatever you have to. Salt water is very important to the reduction of dry rot. Most pIeople don't realize that dry rot spores are 7-times more likely to thrive in fresh water than in salt water. If you own a wooden boat don't wash it down with fresh water; wash it down with salt water so that any moisture that leaks into the boat is at least somewhat saline. Gasolline versus diesel is another matter. I've located a 25 foot Carver with a Volvo dual-prop engine. This looks like a great option to me but I'm unfamiliar with the duo-prop and its reliability. The owner wants an extra $10k over the same boat gasoline powered. One can do a LOT of mooching around for $10k worth of gasoline. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Nov 5, 2007, at 8:22 AM, Bernerts wrote: > Since we're in the Portland area we need something large enough to > go from > here > up to the San Juan's and beyond. > Minimum 50ft, twin screw, diesel and enough accomodations for two > adults and two kids. > Oh and did I mention cheap? And not a hunk of junk? > We're still looking. > > Melinda Even if that kind of boat were GIVEN to you, it would be far from cheap! It might be more economical to rent than buy. Paul Montgomery paul_at_paddleandoar.com http://paddleandoar.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11/5/07, Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com> wrote: > > On Nov 5, 2007, at 8:22 AM, Bernerts wrote: > > > Since we're in the Portland area we need something large enough to > > go from here up to the San Juan's and beyond. > > Minimum 50ft, twin screw, diesel and enough accomodations for two > > adults and two kids. > > Oh and did I mention cheap? And not a hunk of junk? > > We're still looking. > > > > Melinda > > Even if that kind of boat were GIVEN to you, it would be far from > cheap! It might be more economical to rent than buy. > > Paul Montgomery This is very true. Everything about a boat gets more expensive as the square of the extra length. A $100 anchor becomes a $1000 anchor and requires a $4000 windlass to hoist it; a bottom paint job you can do yourself for $400 becomes a $3000 (or more) ordeal; and so on. It is also true that two engines mean twice the number of problems. Double the oil changes, valve jobs, new starters, etc. And double the fuel consumption too. Moorage for a 50-foot boat (if you can find it) is at least $500 and more like $750 per month; even more for covered (and if it's a wooden boat you DO want covered moorage). What would be a quick trip to Anacortes by car becomes a two-week ordeal interrupted by adverse winds and unexpected breakdowns. And visiting moorage? Think in the range of $50 per day *if* you can find 50 feet of empty space at the visitor's dock. Take a week and charter a 40-foot boat out of Anacortes or Friday Harbor and see how that goes. Take the kayaks along. I suspect the two kids in the forepeak (with a blanket between them if they are boy/girl) and you and your husband in the after stateroom would seem like heaven compared to a cold sleeping bag on a rainy beach. When we were cruising down the west coast we were always surprised at the number of potential cruisers who were going home because they discovered that, for them, it wasn't fun. Not one of them had chartered a boat prior to investing their life savings in one. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Believe me I know. Boats are quite spendy. Although we bought a 1922 United States coast guard cutter on ebay a few years back for a song. The only problem is that it's a beast: 125 feet long. Big enough for all of our kayaks and some of yours as well!! Melinda > On Nov 5, 2007, at 8:22 AM, Bernerts wrote: > >> Since we're in the Portland area we need something large enough to >> go from >> here >> up to the San Juan's and beyond. >> Minimum 50ft, twin screw, diesel and enough accomodations for two >> adults and two kids. >> Oh and did I mention cheap? And not a hunk of junk? >> We're still looking. >> >> Melinda > > Even if that kind of boat were GIVEN to you, it would be far from > cheap! It might be more economical to rent than buy. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Moorage isn't an issue for us as we have several options. My dh is very handy as a mechanic and an all around fix it guy as he is from a boating family. Fuel - as always - is the biggest nightmare. Having an extra engine is more upkeep but is sure nice when you lose one. Plus we're planning on eventually meandering up to Alaska so two is a very good number. And as you pointed out, I'd rather be on an old rust bucket any day than on a cold wet beach with a leaky tent. We've spent many hours on boats and the kids are rather comfortable. Plus I like the idea that we can kayak and hubby can come get us when we get tired. Mothership ho!! Melinda > This is very true. Everything about a boat gets more expensive as the > square > of the extra length. A $100 anchor becomes a $1000 anchor and requires a > $4000 windlass to hoist it; a bottom paint job you can do yourself for > $400 > becomes a $3000 (or more) ordeal; and so on. It is also true that two > engines mean twice the number of problems. Double the oil changes, valve > jobs, new starters, etc. And double the fuel consumption too. > > Moorage for a 50-foot boat (if you can find it) is at least $500 and more > like $750 per month; even more for covered (and if it's a wooden boat you > DO > want covered moorage). What would be a quick trip to Anacortes by car > becomes a two-week ordeal interrupted by adverse winds and unexpected > breakdowns. And visiting moorage? Think in the range of $50 per day *if* > you > can find 50 feet of empty space at the visitor's dock. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 04:06, Craig wrote: > When we were cruising down the west coast we were always surprised at > the number of potential cruisers who were going home because they > discovered that, for them, it wasn't fun. Not one of them had chartered > a boat prior to investing their life savings in one. Sounds all too common, here and alsewhere! If not chartering, at least go on a multiday trip with friends (cheaper), to learn some of the good sides, and bad sides! I made some short sail cruises, even a few races, with a friend's boat in my twenties, till he moved elsewhere. Already then I became aware of the massive involvement that was needed, both money-wise and hour-wise - a big motor yatch adds horrendous running costs, slurping gasoline, or diesel, worse than a private aircraft! All the same: We've been thinking of just getting a seaworthy RIB to go places, carrying the Klepper along for local exploration, and while we might be able to finance a RIB, I am not so sure about the running costs, nor the indoor storage complexities, and the costs, during the very long off-season. You could definitely charter a sizeable sail boat for a three-week vacation for that kind of money! Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11/7/07, Tord Eriksson <tord_at_tord.nu> wrote: > > > You could definitely charter a sizeable sail boat for a three-week > vacation for that kind of money! You can charter a 34 foot Trawler-style power boat in the San Juans Islands of Washington State for about US$3000 per week (high season rate - typically June thru August); not including fuel. These boats are typically powered by a single 120HP diesel and burn about 1.5 gallons (US) per hour at a cruising speed of about 7kts. They typically have a vee-berth cabin and head forward, a double-berth cabin aft with head and shower and a salon midships which contains the galley, dinette, and inside steering station. Food is not included. Now, for some comparison. A 34-foot covered moorage in Oak Harbor, WA (about 15 miles inside Deception Pass and 3 or 4 hours from the San Juan Islands costs about US$300 per month. This, of course, doesn't include the cost of the boat or the fuel to run her. Covered moorage in Anacortes runs somewhat higher. If you trailer a boat it's unlikely you can tow anything larger than about 28-feet. Fuel for the towing vehicle varies but generally 10 miles per US gallon would be considered good. From my house in Moses Lake to Anacortes is about 200 miles or 20 US gallons in fuel at $3.70 (current) for US$74 each way. Launch is about US$10 (depends upon where you launch) and parking for a week would be about US$35. Fuel for the boat is available at roadside service stations rather than at more expensive marine fuel stops. Storage for the boat and trailer when you are not using it varies depending on location but you can depend upon at least US$30 per month. A 28-foot trailerable cabin cruiser typically has a vee-berth forward and a cabin which includes an inside steering station just aft and a cockpit at the stern plus a flying bridge. The dinette would convert to a (tight) berth for 2. There would be an enclosed head (possibly with shower); a cooking stove, a refrigerator (or ice box). You could cover the stern cockpit and that might provide a sheltered area for two to sleep depending upon how the engine compartment uses up space. For one week in the San Juan Islands I would be paying about $553 (based on yearly storage) for my own trailered boat; $3600 for my boat moored at a covered dock in Oak Harbor (not including fuel to get the 25 or so miles to the San Juans or travel costs to get to the boat); and about $3000 (not including travel costs including possible ferry fees) for a chartered boat. Of course, with my own boat either trailered or in Oak Harbor I could use it more and bring the costs per week down. I could also charter a boat in the off-season for much less money (about 1/3 less). None of these include operating or maintenance costs for the boat nor boat payments. A 34-foot trawler would carry 3 or 4 kayaks on deck relatively easily. A 28-foot trailer boat would need some permanent rack fabricated in order to keep 3 or 4 kayaks from being in the way or, at worst, dangerous. So, for my purposes, it sure looks like a trailerable boat. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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