I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For those of you who do multi day, boat loaded down, kayak trips what type paddle do you use and why? Happy thanksgiving Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob asked: "I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For those of you who do multi day, boat loaded down, kayak trips what type paddle do you use and why?" Bob: For years I've been making my own Greenland paddles. In addition to their other advantages, I think they perform better on long trips with a boat full of gear. I like them so much that when I paddle in your waters, I pack them inside long PVC tubes and bring them with me on the plane. My perception that they are less work than big Euro paddles was reinforced when, a couple of years ago, I led a 10-day group trip for my son's boy scout troop in Glacier Bay East Arm and one of the dads who accompanied us, an experienced canoeist who had never sea kayaked, started out using a spare GP I had brought at his request. In the middle of the trip, a little frustrated because he was not learning how to paddle with the canted angle, he switched back to Euro paddles, which he regretted because, he would tell me for at least a year afterward, he realized he had exacerbated an old shoulder injury through the Euros. His anecdote just reinforces my impression that a GP can impose less wear and tear on a long haul. Plus, in a real pinch, you can always burn your paddles for kindling. Tom *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rev, I've pretty much given up with specific advice on paddlechoice, because it is so individual. However, if, as Tom Joyce alludes, you might have current or incipient shoulder problems (or elbow, or wrist, or ...), I'd suggest you back off a step in blade size or shaft length. I've been using a 220 cm medium-area Euro paddle for the last 14 seasons after I encountered serious tendinitis my second season from "stepping up" 10 cm when I was using a high-area blade on a 240 cm paddle (Werner San Juan). Being young(er) and definitely dumber, I figured if the 240 was good when I was just building up my muscles, the 250 would make it possible to keep up with my stronger buddy. Needless to say, the 250 broke down my wrists, partly due to poor wrist posture during the power phase, and partly because there is a limit to what those tissues can take in the way of repetitive stress. When I began using the 220, most experts I consulted at that time felt it was too small for my frame size and boat width (24 inches). I notice that nowadays folks are recommending shorter paddles, even some in the 210 range, for guys like me, and boats as wide as my cargo barge. You might also want to check out some of the crank paddles, which do ease some of the issues with wrist posture. However, if you are not experiencing any trouble there, could be a crank would just be an expensive luxury. That's sort of how my fiancee regards me, anyway! Good luck with the search. BTW, you know Craig Warren? He is a contemporary of my son's, and did Scouts, etc., with him. Craig went to Sheldon Jackson, and I believe he has remained in Sitka. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I took the unsophisticated approach. Drove to a kayak factory in Seattle, bought a kayak. They also sell spray skirts, paddles, etc. so bought the entire package. The paddle is by Kober, made in Germany, and is a racing paddle. At least that's what is printed on the blade. I don't race or even want to, but with it I can paddle all day and not get too tired, barring headwinds. No feathering, no wing stuff, just a good honest sturdy paddle. Not sure if they are still made. Weighs twice as much as a carbon fibre model, but I've grown used to it and would not trade it for the more modern types. Call me intransigent, call me a cab, but don't call me late for supper. Brad Quoting Bob Carter <revkayak_at_aptalaska.net>: > I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For those of you who do > multi day, boat loaded down, kayak trips what type paddle do you use and why? > Happy thanksgiving > Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Nov 23, 2007 11:24 PM, Bob Carter <revkayak_at_aptalaska.net> wrote: > I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For those of you who do > multi day, boat loaded down, kayak trips what type paddle do you use and > why? > Happy thanksgiving > Before you make a decision on a new paddle, at least *try* a wing paddle. Your specific location might make it difficult to do it right though, because I think that one would need at least a few miles to get used to it. No one in my group - and we're all 4 to 5 kt paddlers - can keep up with whoever has my wing. And when I'm with someone not quite so fast I can keep up easily with a few strokes and then glide. A 3.5 kt average with my wing is easy but I've only made one heavily-loaded trip with it. However, Dave Kruger tried my wing and said that he thought it would make his shoulder problems worse. I don't have any shoulder problems and I can paddle all day with this older, heavy, and never-actually-in-production Werner wing. But perhaps something lighter and not quite so stiff wouldn't do that; like one of the Epics. I dunno cuz all I had was the ax-handle Werner when he tried it. It's worth noting that we all had to work our butts off to keep up with him while he had it, though. Otherwise, at least in my opinion, lighter is definitely better; my other favorite paddle is a very light "Lightning" sold by Matt Broze and marked "Mariner". That paddle was made in Oregon and may no longer be in production. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob and All, I did the short wide blade thing for a while, and then I found I liked the narrower blades in either Euro or Greenland styles better for distance and camping loads. It's surprising how little blade surface you really need. I build my own paddles nowadays, so I can't really recommend a specific factory paddle. Duane Southern California Build Your Own Paddle: http://www.rollordrown.com/kayak/paddle.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks gang for all the advise. For those suggesting a GP. I have only had a chance to test out one GP and then for only 5 minutes. So I think I will make my winter project carving out one and giving it a test run. Thanks Duane for the "how to" web site. One problem I have is that I rarely get an opportunity to test out paddles. I am hoping to have a layover day in Seattle this February and may get a chance to do some water tests at NWOC. Even then I will be limited to the paddle brands they offer. Keep the advice coming, a lot of good information here. Thanks Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rev Bob, I started using a GP after starting to feel some shoulder pain with a Euro about 3 years ago. Even bought a 2 piece GP to travel with. If you donlt want to make your own, I really like Don Beale's or Superior's one piece wood paddles. Steve Holtzman Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I tend to agree with Tom. I have been using a Greenland paddle for the past few years and have found it very gentle on my body, especially on trips. I still remember realising after the first multi day trip I did with a GP, that, for the first time, neither my wrists nor my shoulders had become at all sore during the trip. Over the past two years, I have done 2, 250+ km trips down the west coast of Vancouver Island, and the three of us used GPs exclusively - again, despite repeated 35 km days with boats loaded for over a week of travel, none of us suffered soreness. I think it may be partly to do with how a GP forces you to torso rotate more. I have also found that I can keep up with my big bladed paddling partners, though I may have more trouble accelerating. I also find bracing, turning and rolling to be easier with a GP. Cheers Mike (clearly a GP evangelist!) At 11:24 PM 23/11/2007, you wrote: >I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For those of you who do >multi day, boat loaded down, kayak trips what type paddle do you use and why? >Happy thanksgiving >Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob wrote: > I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For those of you who do > multi day, boat loaded down, kayak trips what type paddle do you use and why? As a once very happy Euro paddle padder, and for the past six years an avid Greenland Paddle (GP) convert, I'm going to have to go with the GP crowd on this one. After making the switch several years ago, I've only found advantages with the GP over the Euro; and I really loved paddling with the Euro paddle! (haven't used it even once since the first time I tried a GP). Most of my paddling is local day tripping, but I have paddled with boats fully loaded as well, and I still wouldn't want to use anything but my GPs. -- Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Carter wrote: >I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For >those of you who do multi day, boat loaded down, kayak >trips what type paddle do you use and why? G'day Bob and Paddlewise, I use two paddles 1) a Euro with asymmetrical medium area blade, one piece, strong, light weight, carbon fibre, ~40 degree feather, 210cm length ii) slightly heavier similar paddle but two piece as spare cut to same length and feather angle My reasons were: - - One piece is to get best strength for weight - feather angle, length and weight allow cruising with a high angle stroke without wrist rotation for my skinny body type which is susceptible to wrist and shoulder injury - Euro allows options of high speed or cruising - I avoided a wing paddle as I don't sprint long cruises and the last thing I want is an injured shoulder between islands with a fully loaded boat. I carry a sail for such occasions in case of injury but it hasn't happened between islands yet. Also concerned that a wing paddle is not as adaptable to handling bigger choppy sea as a Euro. Note the length and feather angle quoted are suitable for me but not necessarily for others. Also I avoid winds greater than 20 knots. Wind direction where I paddle is fairly predictable, so I haven't yet experienced the problems that such feather angles are supposed to cause in high winds. I've heard good reports on some of the crank paddles for people with wrist problems. After a shoulder problem that totally incapacitated me on an overnight 112km river run, I went to the best paddle stroke tutor I could find and asked him for tuition and to help me set up a feather angle, paddle length and stroke training that would allow me to paddle with a high quality paddle stroke. After I knew the angle and length I wanted I bought a paddle tailored to those dimensions. We did the paddle set up over two sessions with a combination of video and personal monitoring and a smart paddle shaft. the good paddle stroke took a little longer:~). I've a fast enduring stroke now, with no shoulder or wrist problems. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Carter wrote: >I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For >those of you who do multi day, boat loaded down, kayak >trips what type paddle do you use and why? G'day Bob and Paddlewise, I use two paddles 1) a Euro with asymmetrical medium area blade, one piece, strong, light weight, carbon fibre, ~40 degree feather, 210cm length ii) slightly heavier similar paddle but two piece as spare cut to same length and feather angle My reasons were: - - One piece is to get best strength for weight - feather angle, length and weight allow cruising with a high angle stroke without wrist rotation for my skinny body type which is susceptible to wrist and shoulder injury - Euro allows options of high speed or cruising - I avoided a wing paddle as I don't sprint long cruises and the last thing I want is an injured shoulder between islands with a fully loaded boat. I carry a sail for such occasions in case of injury but it hasn't happened between islands yet. Also concerned that a wing paddle is not as adaptable to handling bigger choppy sea as a Euro. Note the length and feather angle quoted are suitable for me but not necessarily for others. Also I avoid winds greater than 20 knots. Wind direction where I paddle is fairly predictable, so I haven't yet experienced the problems that such feather angles are supposed to cause in high winds. I've heard good reports on some of the crank paddles for people with wrist problems. After a shoulder problem that totally incapacitated me on an overnight 112km river run, I went to the best paddle stroke tutor I could find and asked him for tuition and to help me set up a feather angle, paddle length and stroke training that would allow me to paddle with a high quality paddle stroke. After I knew the angle and length I wanted I bought a paddle tailored to those dimensions. We did the paddle set up over two sessions with a combination of video and personal monitoring and a smart paddle shaft. the good paddle stroke took a little longer:~). I've a fast enduring stroke now, with no shoulder or wrist problems. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/23/2007 11:26:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, revkayak_at_aptalaska.net writes: I am seriously thinking about buying a new paddle. For those of you who do multi day, boat loaded down, kayak trips what type paddle do you use and why? Happy thanksgiving Bob >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I primarily use the Lendal paddles with the Paddlokk system. Lendal has some great blade designs, though the key for me is that I can vary the shaft length or the blade composition with the day's planned paddle. The paddles break down for travelling, be it a hatch for a ferry ride, or an airplane ride very, very nicely. The Paddlokk system keeps the sections from moving at all. The system is dependent on the Allen key, so now I have that key in both PFDs pockets. Some do not like it for that reason, but the versatility is something I've grown to appreciate. The only other paddle that has a seductive hold on my imagination are the beautiful wood paddles I see in ads or in pix from paddlers. Cheers, Rob G **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob, I'll throw in my thoughts only because they are a bit different from some of what has already been written. I started racing kayaks in 1966, quit racing in 1994 and have paddled mostly in sea kayaks since '94 except for the occasional whitewater trip. Since 1966 I have always paddled a minimum of 150 days a year and often quite a bit more. My normal at-home paddles are in my slalom boat (easy to carry to the river and fun to play in). Every paddle is a workout as if I were still racing. For daily paddles, one day will be with my Euro paddle, the next will be with my Greenland paddle and the third day will be with a canoe paddle. This rotation allows me to use different muscles at different angles for each workout. All this to say that, after 6000 paddling days, I have no wrist, shoulder or elbow problems and I don't find that my traditional paddle is easier on my joints or causes me to use more torso rotation than my Euro paddle. I hold my paddles very loose. If I hit an obstruction while paddling the paddle slides through my hands. So, I think (and I might be wrong) that good technique with whatever blade one uses will help reduce the chance of repetitive-use injuries. Or maybe I have unusual joints. (I've been told I have an unusual brain, so maybe the rest follows.) I use a heavy Nimbus Capilano (wood) or a lighter Mitchell slalom paddle (also wood) for my daily paddles. In my sea kayak I use a Mitchell Sea Blade (wood, a bit heavy), and I carry Aqua Bound carbon paddles as spares. I know that most people don't have the time that I do to work on perfecting their technique, and I know that not everyone wants to be a perfectionist in any case, but I do believe that a lot of what passes for fact about paddles is based more on the person using the paddle and their technique and not instrinsic to the paddles themselves. For what it's worth . . . Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James wrote: > [snip] I do believe that a lot of what passes for fact about paddles is > based more on the person using the paddle and their technique and not > intrinsic to the paddles themselves. I agree. Certainly corresponds to what I have learned by using poor technique. Now at mediocre technique, heading for "above-average." -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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