I just read Craig Junger's "Rules of the Road" in this month's Sea Kayaker. A good and useful read Craig. Now I not only don't have to slog through the entire COLREGs, but I also have good reasons not to build a 12 meter kayak! ;) Paul Montgomery paul_at_paddleandoar.com http://paddleandoar.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul Montgomery wrote: > I just read Craig Junger's "Rules of the Road" in this month's Sea > Kayaker. A good and useful read Craig. Now I not only don't have to > slog through the entire COLREGs, but I also have good reasons not to > build a 12 meter kayak! ;) I thought it was well-done, also. So much of it is stuff I have assimilated over the years, I wondered who would benefit from it ... until I realized that by frequently paddling in and across shipping channels, I had been conditioned to become aware of the rules, and than many paddlers might not be aware. That said, almost every single accident or near-accident involving kayaks and power boaters I know of has involved blatant disregard (or ignorance -- the difference can be noted on your grave stone, I suppose) of the rules by the power boater. So, what "good" does it do you to know the rules if the prime cause of a threat to you is somebody else's ignorance or incompetence? I now own and use a power boat, and took the required Oregon safe boating course, which illuminated the nature of the liability and hazards of using such a craft. And here is the caveat: stuff can happen so fast in a power boat you have to pay attention ... to a much greater degree than we do. Transitioning from one mode to the other was a real eye-opener for me. We won't discuss my docking skills. [grin] -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Talking to power boaters, I have often been admonished that what I do is dangerous as kayaks are hard to see and we may be run down by someone sometime. I have always felt that if a powerboater can not see a kayaker in time to avoid them, the powerboater is operating unsafely. There are many things floating around that are much more dangerous to a powerboater than a kayak that are also much harder to see - such as large partially submerged logs. If they can't see a kayak, they are in significant danger of hitting a log which would likely sink them. I go by the "tonnage rule" - if it out weighs me, I try to avoid getting in its way and am particularly careful in low visibility conditions, but a boat bombing around at 30 knots in the fog is the one operating dangerously, not me going 3 or 4. As you say, lot of good this fact would do me as a lobster boat cruises over me without ever noticing the speed bump. On Jan 27, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Dave Kruger wrote: > > That said, almost every single accident or near-accident involving > kayaks and power boaters I know of has involved blatant disregard > (or ignorance -- the difference can be noted on your grave stone, I > suppose) of the rules by the power boater. So, what "good" does it > do you to know the rules if the prime cause of a threat to you is > somebody else's ignorance or incompetence? Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 54 South Rd Groton, CT 06340 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote: > > That said, almost every single accident or near-accident involving kayaks > and power boaters I know of has involved blatant disregard (or ignorance -- > the difference can be noted on your grave stone, I suppose) of the rules by > the power boater. So, what "good" does it do you to know the rules if the > prime cause of a threat to you is somebody else's ignorance or incompetence? There is not much kayakers can do about the ignorance of the Rules by other boaters except, as several have noted, to follow the "tonnage rule" (e.g.: stay out of the way of anything bigger). This is often difficult to do when we (inevitably) cross channels. Mike Euritt's notes regarding the visibility of colors is important to remember. We should start thinking of our paddles as our primary attention-getting device and use some of that new retro-reflective tape on them so that, as we wave them around, the light reflected off them rises above the ambient noise of the water. Werner Paddles should take note... my new paddles from them are jet black and it's going to take a heck of a lot of tape. Pam just paints hers with green luminescent paint. There are a lot more kayakers out there now and that means that boaters *should* be aware of the potential hazards. I still think the best defense is to stay in waters that power boats are afraid of (near shore and shallow), cross channels as quickly as possible, and be especially cautious around marinas and public beaches. > I now own and use a power boat, and took the required Oregon safe boating > course, which illuminated the nature of the liability and hazards of using > such a craft. And here is the caveat: stuff can happen so fast in a power > boat you have to pay attention ... to a much greater degree than we do. > Transitioning from one mode to the other was a real eye-opener for me. We > won't discuss my docking skills. [grin] > > The speed at which *stuff* happens on a powerboat at 25 or 30 kts is simply breathtaking. On a kayak you can get lost in your thoughts for a few minutes while you're paddling along and maybe cover a hundred yards. But if you lose focus at the wheel of a powerboat moving at 30kts for 60 seconds you've covered half a mile! A lot of things can happen in half a mile. I know I'm preaching to the choir in this as we are all scared spitless by power boats (and if you're not, you should be), but if a power boat driver shifts attention to finding a chart (oh... wait... ok then, more ice for his drink) from driving then you have a missile running around and it's just us and the rocks that are the speed bumps. As for docking, believe it or not that is actually easier in a larger and heavier boat than it is in a lightweight and maneuverable bartender. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There are some misconceptions about retro-reflective tape; I've worked with it a good deal, and strongly endorse its use on kayaks and paddles. As a former CSAR pilot, I have rescued people based only on their use of reflective tape on helmet surfaces. However, a retro-reflective surface is highly visible only when illuminated by a light source radiating from or close to the observer's position and only when that light source is much brighter than the ambient light. In other words, if a kayak paddle is held up a quarter mile away at night, and an observer hits that paddle with a good searchlight beam, he/she will definitely pull the paddle out from the visual "ambient noise". Another observer standing 100 meters to the side of the searchlight-equipped observer probably will see little. (I recall that there is an ambiguity cone of about ten or 15 degrees -- beyond which, the light doesn't reflect back much at all.) The other issue is contrast: under normal daylight conditions, waving a retro-reflective tape equipped paddle at someone will have the same effect as waving a sheet of aluminum foil at the observer. Essentially, it has no value whatsoever during daylight -- although flourescent paint on a target surface (read: paddle) does have significant value, based on some Coast Guard work I did a while back. Again, based on research conducted with the Navy and with the USCG -- and coupled with years of practical experience -- retro-reflective tape on a kayak or paddle is terrific (1) at night (2) if there is someone actually looking for you, and (3) that observer has a bright light source aimed at you. All three conditions are needed, or you're part of the visual clutter. Flourescent stuff really works! Joq Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us>wrote: > There are some misconceptions about retro-reflective tape..... > > However, a retro-reflective surface is highly visible only when > illuminated by a light source radiating from or close to the observer's > position and only when that light source is much brighter than the > ambient light. Good point!!! So maybe retro-reflective tape AND in addition some highly polished tape (silver or chrome) in alternate stripes might be the answer here. That way the reflections from the mirror-polish tape would be seen easily. Of course, then people would report distress situations. You just can't please everyone. Any ideas about what polished tape would hold up on a paddle (or kayak... or PFD) in a marine environment? Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Have serious doubts that a polished tape would do any good at all. Would be just another element of glint in the ambient light. Don't confuse mirrored or bright surfaces with a signaling mirror: a mirror is a very good device if you have a bright, clear sun and a known or potential observer. It invovles reflecting a bright beam of sunlight at an observer, but it's very, very directional -- as well as incredibly bright as far as the observer is concerned. It's a visual element that you will not see under any other circumstances, especially if you're airborne. Personally, for passive visibility, I'd go with flourescent surfaces on a paddle and a cap, and retro on the chine of the kayak. Even a pencil thin line of retro-reflective tape will "bloom" into a light show if you're illuminated by a light source in the vicinity of an observer. Joq ________________________________ From: Craig Jungers [mailto:crjungers _at_gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:55 PM To: Martin, Jack Cc: Dave Kruger; Paddlewise net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Kayaker - Feb On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us> wrote: There are some misconceptions about retro-reflective tape..... However, a retro-reflective surface is highly visible only when illuminated by a light source radiating from or close to the observer's position and only when that light source is much brighter than the ambient light. Good point!!! So maybe retro-reflective tape AND in addition some highly polished tape (silver or chrome) in alternate stripes might be the answer here. That way the reflections from the mirror-polish tape would be seen easily. Of course, then people would report distress situations. You just can't please everyone. Any ideas about what polished tape would hold up on a paddle (or kayak... or PFD) in a marine environment? Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.14/1920 - Release Date: 1/28/2009 6:37 AM *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Its funny. A colorful paddle blade lit from the front is typically > very visible. If backlit it appears dark or black. > Our eyes seem to be tuned into motion. The rhythmic motion of the > paddle is what I look for when the paddler is just a speck on the > horizon. That works better for me rather than color. Color seems > more important to me up close. Flash works both up close and far > away. It might be wise to provide all three. > Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Craig Jungers wrote: > Any ideas about what polished tape would hold up on a paddle (or > kayak... or > PFD) in a marine environment? This would fit the bill in oh so many ways... http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ Paul Montgomery paul_at_paddleandoar.com http://paddleandoar.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
So, would it be better to wrap your kayak in aluminum foil, or yourself? Or both? (I disavow having ever said this.) Quoting Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com>: > On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Craig Jungers wrote: > >> Any ideas about what polished tape would hold up on a paddle (or >> kayak... or >> PFD) in a marine environment? > > > This would fit the bill in oh so many ways... > > http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ > > Paul Montgomery > paul_at_paddleandoar.com > http://paddleandoar.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Talking to power boaters, I have often been admonished that what I do is dangerous as kayaks are hard to see and we may be run down by someone sometime. I have always felt that if a powerboater can not see a kayaker in time to avoid them, the powerboater is operating unsafely. There are many things floating around that are much more dangerous to a powerboater than a kayak that are also much harder to see - such as large partially submerged logs. If they can't see a kayak, they are in significant danger of hitting a log which would likely sink them. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// You are correct in your observation, but even in a slow moving sailboat we kayakers are all but invisible. I won't even start the discussioin of how much more there is to be aware of while captain of a 30'+ boat, but a kayak needs to rise above a lot of distraction to be noticed, even at a sailing speed of 5 knots. 25 years ago when I was sailing, I never saw a kayak. Now, I see them when paddling, fairly easy being on the same level, and while in my mothership, a much harder proposition. Two weeks ago, anchored off China Camp's south end, we watched two kayakers near Rat Rock apparently doing rescue drills.(even with the 8x50 binoculars, there seemed to be no distress) We noticed them because of one yellow pfd. The rest of the kit, boats and paddles included, were invisible against the chop when we first noticed them, and improved only slightly with the tide change and calm water. We were about half mile away. Going down to Richardson Bay, where I store my own kayaks and is home to Sea-Trek, kayak outfitters, I expect to see kayaks and pay special attention from Angel Island to Schoonmaker Point. What is easiest to see is paddles with reflector stripes. Big, bold stripes. Next is yellow. Nothing else really cuts through the clutter of reflections on calm water, or can be seen at all above the local sea conditions on the greater SF Bay. Having just bought a waterproof camera for my kayking sojourns, I have ambitions of taking photographs of how kayakers look from my bridge, and making a photo essay so we paddlers have a better understanding of just how invisible we are. Even if we just happen to have right of way according to COLREGS its of little use. Even small craft, 30' and less, occasionally get run over by the commercial ships w/o being seen, or even felt at time of impact. One other thing working against us is colorblindness, As a road cyclist, I was surprised to find that the bright, expensive colors are not visible to the color blind, and the one color that is, blue, is not so good for us who have decent color vision when in the forest. www.dartmouth.edu/~sullivan/bike/colorbv.html Remove frame So, yellow aside, to improve my own visibility, it will be reflective tape on paddles and PFD for my own safety. Mike San Rafael, CA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Personally, I am not all that worried about being run down by sailboats going 5 knots. While they are quiet and may sneak up behind you, their closing rate is gradual if you are paddling 3 or 4 knots yourself. A 1 or 2 knot approach give plenty of time for everyone involved to notice a possible collision and take the necessary evasive action. Remember that kayaks are quiet and hear most boats coming from some distance and it doesn't take a whole lot of paddling to get out of the way. While the fact that a kayak is not visible through powerful binoculars is worrisome from the Search and Rescue perspective, I am not worried by it from a collision perspective. Half a mile is quite a distance for a kayak to get out of the way. And again, if a captain can not see a low lying object that may endanger his vessel in time to avoid it, he is traveling at an unsafe speed. I don't accept the proposition that the operator of a 30' may have too much to keep track of. If the task of keeping track of what is in their path becomes too burdensome they should slow down they are already beyond their ability to operate safely. If a sailor can not see what is in his path, that is not the fault of whoever is in the way, it is purely the responsibility of the sailor to make more of an effort to see better. There is no color bright enough for a kayaker to be seen through a spinnaker, the sailor must maintain sufficient watch to overcome their own blind spots. The fact that sails are large and opaque doesn't not give the sailor a pass to avoid basic responsibility. If a sailer can not do this, it is the sailor who is doing something dangerous, not the kayaker. I don't mean to imply that a large commercial vessel should be able to see and avoid a kayak. Large ships are restricted in their ability to maneuver and have a reasonable expectation that their course will be kept clear. It is completely incumbent on kayakers to keep out of their way. But if anyone operating a recreational vessel or small fishing boat operating in open water, who can not steer clear of any 17' long floating object, is in no position to accuse kayakers of operating dangerously. Even if there were no kayaks on any body of water, the ability to steer around hard-to-see floating obstacles is a basic safety requirement. Hard-to-see objects are common on the water with other small boats, logs, buoys, and rocks being just a few. If the larger boats are operated in a safe manner kayaks will have absolutely no problem keeping well out of their way. BTW, how often do collisions with kayaks occur? I have never heard of a vessel actually hitting and killing a sea kayaker. I'm sure it does/ will happen, but it is a rare occurrence. Nick On Jan 28, 2009, at 8:09 AM, Mike Euritt wrote: > > You are correct in > your observation, but even in a slow moving sailboat we kayakers are > all but > invisible. I won't even start the discussioin of how much more there > is to be > aware of while captain of a 30'+ boat, but a kayak needs to rise > above a lot > of distraction to be noticed, even at a sailing speed of 5 knots. > > Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 54 South Rd Groton, CT 06340 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Nick Schade <nick_at_guillemot-kayaks.com>wrote: > If a sailor can not see what is in his path, that is not the fault of > whoever is in the way, it is purely the responsibility of the sailor to make > more of an effort to see better. There is no color bright enough for a > kayaker to be seen through a spinnaker, the sailor must maintain sufficient > watch to overcome their own blind spots. The fact that sails are large and > opaque doesn't not give the sailor a pass to avoid basic responsibility. If > a sailer can not do this, it is the sailor who is doing something dangerous, > not the kayaker. This is all absolutely right both from a legal standpoint and from a logical standpoint. But it's not just sails in the way of visibility for a sailboater. The bows of a large sailboat can be quite high and reduce the ability of a helmsman to see anything relatively close to the boat. And on a tack the helmsman sits on the high side of the boat so objects on the leeward side might be hidden by a jib sheeted close-in. Most sailors know all this and move around often in order to see all quadrants. And, all in all, sailors seem much more amenable to knowing (and following) the Rules. The scariest boats of all - at least to me - are the 17 to 21 foot open runabouts. But if anyone operating a recreational vessel or small fishing boat > operating in open water, who can not steer clear of any 17' long floating > object, is in no position to accuse kayakers of operating dangerously. Amen to that! The entire idea that what we're doing is dangerous because it makes them work harder to see (and avoid) us is ludicrous on the face of it. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This is an interesting discussion. Having stepped partially over to the dark side, I think I'm understanding the head set of power boaters better ... and that understanding is making me very much more cautious when around power boats under way. I agree with Nick's assessment: anybody piloting a power or sailing vessel _in_open_waters_ who complains "kayaks just are not visible" is not maintaining a proper lookout. In the waters where I paddle (Columbia River and coast of BC, basically), logs (full-floating and deadheads alike), sawmill debris, and flotsam of the plastic persuasion are abundant. Boaters who do not maintain the needed lookout visit the yard frequently ... and the remainder seem more attuned to the need to look out for stuff. Other waters, not so much, with some cultural slants certainly applicable, typically of the jet ski mentality. [Piloting in narrow channels or marinas is another story ... read on for a personal anecdote, very embarrassing to me, but worth detailing.] The crux of it, however, is that most power boaters focus on detecting and avoiding vessels that are likely to cause injury _to_them_, and not on vessels they are likely to injure: in other words, they are attuned to the notion that tonnage rules. "Canoe, kayak, rowboat? Wish they would go away and quit clogging up the marina lanes!" might sum up the prevalent attitude. Boating xenophobia at its zenith, I suspect, although our ability to suddenly change direction, seemingly (to the power boater) without reason or rhyme, makes them very nervous near us. Read on ... That said, I have been the "victim" of a near-collision, within a marina, after fueling my power boat, in which a couple for-hire doubles rounded a blind corner behind me as I was inexpertly trying to back away from the float, and within seconds were less than 10 meters from my stern. Fortunately, I saw the paddlers and slammed the boat into forward gear, which forced me into the fuel dock: one ding on my boat, but no blood in the water. The "guide" overseeing his covey of paddlers was at the tail end of this entourage and only saw its resolution, giving me a cold, dirty look as he passed. I was shaking, not in rage, but in fear of what I might have done. Later, I realized that if the roles were reversed, I would _never_ have attempted to pass any power vessel, powered up, that closely, whether paddling or steaming ... the paddlers were rank novices, and had no understanding of the hazard of their behavior. It is incidents such as this one which generate an attitude toward paddlers on the part of the power boat crowd. As to collisions in which sea kayakers have been injured or killed, I do not have data, only anecdotal information, and no incidents come immediately to mind. I did a little ineffectual Googling and could only come up with this incident from Wavelength (down a ways; Sproat Lake incident after dark; kayaks wee unlit): http://www.wavelengthmagazine.com/1998/on98sar.html Someone must have data, somewhere. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
To meet the Canadian regs, our 40' outrigger canoe is supposed to carry a boarding ladder and a life ring. -----Original Message----- Junger's "Rules of the Road" in this month's Sea Kayaker. A good and useful read Craig. Now I not only don't have to slog through the entire COLREGs, but I also have good reasons not to build a 12 meter kayak! ;) Paul Montgomery *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Craig Jungers "Moses Lake, WA wrote: "This is all absolutely right both from a legal standpoint and from a logical standpoint. But it's not just sails in the way of visibility for a sailboater. The bows of a large sailboat can be quite high and reduce the ability of a helmsman to see anything relatively close to the boat. And on a tack the helmsman sits on the high side of the boat so objects on the leeward side might be hidden by a jib sheeted close-in. Now, what about a sailor-mum? This summer I entered our local small harbour with a rookie kayaker just in front of me. Ahead of us was the yacht harbour and to our backboard side was access to the fishers' harbour. A 30' motoryacht came from behind on our starboard side and passed us with a small difference in speed. No sails, just the engine running slowly. The captain of the boat was at the helm, from where he could not see much (I could see his head) but up front was his wife standing with the hand on the stay glaring right ahead as she took care of the watch. Now suddenly the skipper turned the wheel to make a 90 degrees turn and enter the fishers' harbour. Our rookie was in the way but not for long before the yacht hit him. I was at most 5 meters away from the yacht and the "watchman" and I was blowing my whistle as much as at all possible. But she just kept staring into the horizon. More or less paralyzed. Even after they hit the kayak. Well: calm weather, low speed, close to shore, no real problem. I got the victim up and he had suffered no personal damage. He was only a little confused. Afterwards I "spoke" to the skipper. He had of course had no intentions of any kind. I could only advise him to get some proper training for his wife. And to reflect a little bit about the kind of support he could expect if he got into trouble and suddenly depended on her abilities. Jens Viggo Moesmand Denmark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks Dave, for the excellent example. the paddlers were rank novices, and had no understanding of the hazard of their behavior. It is incidents such as this one which generate an attitude toward paddlers on the part of the power boat crowd. This may well go back to the point made, was it in the article or the first go around on this topic, that many kayakers, not knowing the COLREGs, assume they have right of way by virtue of their being paddle craft. I bet of they were on foot, they wouldn't walk behind a backing UPS truck. Mike San Rafael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike Euritt wrote: > Thanks Dave, for the excellent example. > > the paddlers were rank novices, and had no understanding of the hazard > of their behavior. It is incidents such as this one which generate an > attitude toward paddlers on the part of the power boat crowd. > > This may well go back to the point made, was it in the article or the > first go around on this topic, that many kayakers, not knowing the > COLREGs, assume they have right of way by virtue of their being paddle > craft. I bet of they were on foot, they wouldn't walk behind a backing > UPS truck. Thanks, Mike. I am still enormously embarrassed about this, and definitely feel I failed to maintain an adequate watch, despite their inattentiveness. Side note: in Oregon, pretty much everybody below the age of 80 who operates a powered vessel (even sailboats, if they have an engine over 10 hp) now must earn a Boater Education Card. Typically this is done by passing an exam at the tail end of a Power Squadron course. That's what I did, with the assistance of the local PS crowd. Because of the many years I have paddled, I know a lot of the stuff needed to pass the exam, but not all, for sure. And, despite some resentment at having to take the class, I learned quite a bit of useful stuff. It was a worthwhile experience. I am NOT advocating a similar requirement for paddlers; in fact, because we have the potential to harm mainly just ourselves, I see no need for such a requirement, as a way of "ensuring public safety." But, I am a strong advocate for training for paddlers ... as a means of self-protection. Believe it or not a woman contemplating a long coast-wise paddle down in South America took the PS course a year ago as preparation! Definitely, I see the requirement on powered vessel operators as more or less the equivalent of testing and certification for driving a motor vehicle. But, we are more like bicyclists, who are hard pressed to hurt others, but easily able to hurt ourselves. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote: > > I am NOT advocating a similar requirement for paddlers; in fact, because we > have the potential to harm mainly just ourselves, I see no need for such a > requirement, as a way of "ensuring public safety." But, I am a strong > advocate for training for paddlers ... as a means of self-protection. This goes back to the certification thread: who determines whether the trainer is qualified? The *star* system certainly has some merit with its separate tracks for paddlers and coaches. The first three paddler-level stars are no worse than what I'd expect any open-water kayaker to be able to do anyway. There is a significant jump to 4 and 5, however. It's hard to defend a stance advocating no training at all for kayakers and especially for group leaders but I suspect training for most leaders is on an ad hoc basis; if that. Some of my opposition to the BCU system is that it requires certified coaches to maintain membership in order to keep their credentials. Then there is the plethora of income potential from the various strata. Still, what else is there? Perhaps we need something more like the Power Squadrons. No "membership" required (and, yes, I understand that BCU doesn't require membership for the lower stars) and all done by volunteers. Most kayakers aren't big joiners, anyway. >From your description of the "leader" of your novices and his glaring at you, I suspect Mike is right; he thought they all had the legal "right of way". But they did not. In fact, given the circumstances, you probably had more of a claim to the right of way by virtue of you inability to maneuver easily in a restricted channel. (I wouldn't want to rely on that defense in a small powerboat, however.) That was someone who is clearly in need of some enlightenment. Very interesting discussion. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com > I am NOT advocating a similar requirement for paddlers; in fact, > because we have the potential to harm mainly just ourselves, I see > no need for such a requirement, as a way of "ensuring public > safety." But, I am a strong advocate for training for paddlers ... > as a means of self-protection. > This goes back to the certification thread: who determines whether the > trainer is qualified? [snip] > > It's hard to defend a stance advocating no training at all for kayakers > and especially for group leaders but I suspect training for most leaders > is on an ad hoc basis; [snip] Just for the record, I'm not an advocate of "no training at all for kayakers." I don't think Craig meant to suggest I was, but the juxtaposition of his statements and mine may make it appear so. Also for the record, I wonder if Craig is edging toward mandatory training for kayakers before they get wet? Is that where you are going, Craig, or are you mainly an advocate for training for those who lead groups for hire? What about leaders in clubs? Most clubs I know of do require training for their leaders, but some do not. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote: > > Just for the record, I'm not an advocate of "no training at all for > kayakers." I don't think Craig meant to suggest I was, but the > juxtaposition of his statements and mine may make it appear so. I wasn't trying to suggest that at all. Just thinking out loud. Also for the record, I wonder if Craig is edging toward mandatory training > for kayakers before they get wet? Is that where you are going, Craig, or > are you mainly an advocate for training for those who lead groups for hire? > What about leaders in clubs? Most clubs I know of do require training for > their leaders, but some do not. > I don't see how any "mandatory" training for kayakers is possible given the fact that someone can buy one and toss it into the water. And I'm not sure I'm an advocate for anything, actually. But I'm pretty concerned about the state of affairs we have now where people can rent kayaks at a park right on the Tacoma Narrows and paddle out into 5kt currents with their wives, girlfriends or kids aboard. Simply signing a waiver with no idea of what could befall you seems like a bad idea to me. But I'm also generally in favor of freedom. Both Dave and I (and many others on Paddlewise) could (and did!) do stupid things in our youth and the adults would mostly laugh it off (ok... maybe not the moms). We could ride in the back of pickup trucks and wave merrily at cops. We could take naps on the shelf below the back window of cars. We had no idea what seat belts were. We could ride 650cc motorycles at age 16 with no training other than someone showing us which controls did what. We could walk two miles to elementary school and back and ride bikes clear across town. We not only could walk to school... we *had* to walk to school. And ride our bikes in good weather... sometimes all over town. A lot of freedom has been lost in our culture. I'm not at all sure I want to be part of eliminating even more of it. But I'm also not happy about the way some people seem to do stupid things. So go figure. I don't much like the way the BCU does it but there doesn't seem to be an alternative. Maybe we can come up with something. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'd love a power boater to not be on the lookout and head straight for me - as long as I was paddling in rock gardens. :-) Having been involved is sea kayaking here in Victoria for just under 30 years now I can allude to a number of anecdotal reports of power boaters who unfortunately had full visuals on various paddling acquaintances, whereby these paddlers either singularly or with a partner were circled closely, passed closely on purpose, or worse, harassed. Usually young, or youngish and drinking liquor, these were the boaters to be feared. One paddler/sailor I know got to the point where his next kayak and his wife's were ordered in Sea Green. I ran a high-vis flag for many years until I started spending more of my time away from the well-traveled areas. Playing in current near boat traffic is also another place to think through your visibility. Canoes also are much easier to spot on the water all things being equal. Low slung craft like kayaks must be given some means of visibility and I think paddles are the best first option. Always, always on an open water trip or long crossings on fltter water, the paddlers are the first thing you see - even paddles not specifically modified for high-vis. I notice Freya ditched the black for her Aussie adventure. One note: good retroreflective tape isn't cheap and is a bear to remove for restoration work. As for groups of kayakers interacting with boaters in confined marinas and tight but navigable waterways, proper pre-launch discussions should be the norm. They rarely are in my experience with group paddle outings. I can't preach to the choir on these issues as I take a dynamic shift from the typical prudence exhibited on Paddleswise. Ships, ferries, displacement hull craft under full throttle, as well as various hydrofoil vessels are all fodder for my personal kayak play. Fortunately, only a small percentage of paddlers like me consider GT and Deadweight Tonnage values as a measurement of their day's adrenaline fix. Although, there are a few safety writters out there for who unabashed wake-riding is nirvana. Doug Lloyd > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote: > >> >> That said, almost every single accident or near-accident involving kayaks >> and power boaters I know of has involved blatant disregard (or >> ignorance -- >> the difference can be noted on your grave stone, I suppose) of the rules >> by >> the power boater. So, what "good" does it do you to know the rules if >> the >> prime cause of a threat to you is somebody else's ignorance or >> incompetence? > > > There is not much kayakers can do about the ignorance of the Rules by > other > boaters except, as several have noted, to follow the "tonnage rule" (e.g.: > stay out of the way of anything bigger). This is often difficult to do > when > we (inevitably) cross channels. Mike Euritt's notes regarding the > visibility > of colors is important to remember. We should start thinking of our > paddles > as our primary attention-getting device and use some of that new > retro-reflective tape on them so that, as we wave them around, the light > reflected off them rises above the ambient noise of the water. Werner > Paddles should take note... my new paddles from them are jet black and > it's > going to take a heck of a lot of tape. Pam just paints hers with green > luminescent paint. > > There are a lot more kayakers out there now and that means that boaters > *should* be aware of the potential hazards. I still think the best defense > is to stay in waters that power boats are afraid of (near shore and > shallow), cross channels as quickly as possible, and be especially > cautious > around marinas and public beaches. > > >> I now own and use a power boat, and took the required Oregon safe boating >> course, which illuminated the nature of the liability and hazards of >> using >> such a craft. And here is the caveat: stuff can happen so fast in a >> power >> boat you have to pay attention ... to a much greater degree than we do. >> Transitioning from one mode to the other was a real eye-opener for me. >> We >> won't discuss my docking skills. [grin] >> >> The speed at which *stuff* happens on a powerboat at 25 or 30 kts is >> simply > breathtaking. On a kayak you can get lost in your thoughts for a few > minutes > while you're paddling along and maybe cover a hundred yards. But if you > lose > focus at the wheel of a powerboat moving at 30kts for 60 seconds you've > covered half a mile! A lot of things can happen in half a mile. > > I know I'm preaching to the choir in this as we are all scared spitless by > power boats (and if you're not, you should be), but if a power boat driver > shifts attention to finding a chart (oh... wait... ok then, more ice for > his > drink) from driving then you have a missile running around and it's just > us > and the rocks that are the speed bumps. > > As for docking, believe it or not that is actually easier in a larger and > heavier boat than it is in a lightweight and maneuverable bartender. > > Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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Doug wrote:>>>>>>Although, there are a few safety writters out there for who unabashed wake-riding is nirvana.<<<<< Hey, I look both ways very carefully before riding a boat wake. You never know when the harbor patrol may be lurking about. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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