Simple question to the list What does this mean and Why should I (we) not be concerned? >From James Hansen, provided at HuffPo http://www.grist.org/article/Dear-Barack-and-Michelle/ If you have proof this year old letter is a fraud, please provide evidence and I will withdraw the question.. However it is in keeping with the views of Hansen, who, as I am sure you know, recently testified that terrorism against industry is OK because the world is in such peril. It also supports the notion that this is just an excuse for more government in our lives. ************************************************************ Of course you are all aware that Phil Jones has temporarily stepped aside while the British investigation is done. The Brits are taking great care to select a person or persons that both sides trust to do the investigation fairly, unlike Michael Mann and Penn State that are conducting an internal investigation, gee what could go wrong with that? All the Best Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike, Most of us enjoy paddlewise because we avoid political discussions so lets keep it that way O.K.? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Euritt" > Simple question to the list > > What does this mean and Why should I (we) not be concerned? > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Carter wrote: > Mike, > Most of us enjoy paddlewise because we avoid political discussions so > lets keep it that way O.K.? Amen, Rev. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hello Bob, You wrote: > Most of us enjoy paddlewise because we avoid political discussions > so lets keep it that way O.K.? Not as much fun as one of your Alaska paddle reports, but just as necessary. Thanks. By the way, when are we going to get to read more of your local paddling trip reports? I'm suffering "Rev. Bob Alaska trip report" withdrawals! Any addict will tell you...this isn't good! :) -- Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>wrote: > > > By the way, when are we going to get to read more of your local > paddling trip reports? I'm suffering "Rev. Bob Alaska trip report" > withdrawals! Any addict will tell you...this isn't good! :) > > I have been wondering the same thing. It's been a long time since we've had a fix. :) Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doesn't anyone paddle any more? GW (That's for Gordin Warner - I'm taking ownership of the initials back) Anyone inappropriately using the initials GW will hear from my solicitors; "Dewey Flecium and Howe of 1 Harvard Square, Cambridge Ma. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Nice to see ya back George.... er, Gordin, My paddling might be done for the year... one 24-hour period in the low 30s and we have another skim of ice on the lake. Predictions are for more low temps (20s). I figure that by this time next week if I practice rolling 40-feet off my beach I'll bruise my shoulder and there will be a lot of bumping sounds. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM, hmgwarner <hmgwarner_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > Doesn't anyone paddle any more? > > GW > > (That's for Gordin Warner - I'm taking ownership of the initials back) > Anyone inappropriately using the initials GW will hear from my solicitors; > "Dewey Flecium and Howe of 1 Harvard Square, *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
GW wrote: Doesn't anyone paddle any more? Some of us are lucky enough to paddle in places where boating is possible even in the ice season. I live near the Fox River in suburban Chicago. There are a number of dams that stir up the water enough to give us open water no matter what the temperature. I have arbitrarily set ten below zero (F) as my minimum for paddling (wind chill or actual temperature.) I find colder than that to be too cumbersome with all the ice that forms on the paddle and deck and lifejacket and face and - you get the picture. I'm more comfortable at zero than 35 above because the ice on my boat and pogies insulates very well. But at 35 nothing freezes and evaporation still happens. (The laws of nature can be annoying at times.) Winter paddling can be wonderful when the snow is falling. If there is no wind the reflection of the flakes in the water makes it look, at least to this flake in the water, like the snow is 'falling' up from the bottom of the river. Apologies to those of you who have heard this before. It's becoming my traditional early winter email. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In the Twin Cities, most winters it is possible to paddle all season-long on the Mississippi River in the current below the Ford Dam. It's an annual ritual for kayakers to gather there on New Year's Day for a (usually) short paddle and picnic. The last time I did this was before my bypass operation over four years ago, and the coldest temperature I paddled in was about 8 degrees F. At that temperature, fresh water ices up kayaks, spray skirts, and paddles pretty rapidly. My gear had about a quarter-inch of ice on it by the time I took out. You should have a good roll and cold water protection in these conditions, because you might not be able to pop your spray skirt in an emergency. I also recommend a shouldered Greenland paddle in these conditions. The shoulder and the oval section of the loom make it easier to grip the paddle even when the loom is slick with ice. Furthermore, the blades usually stay ice-free from constantly being dipped in 32-degree water, which makes it possible to get a good grip for the standard Greenland roll if that should become necessary. On a few occasions this event took place while cakes of ice were floating down the river. Then it was fun to paddle fast at one of these ice rafts and slide my kayak up on top to ride it for a while. I called it "going with the floe." November here was the second-warmest on record, with every single day having an above-normal temperature. We're just now getting back to normal and slightly below-normal temperatures, so the ponds are just starting to freeze. It'll probably be another week or two before the lakes start to freeze. Chuck Holst __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Chuck Holst <cholst_at_bitstream.net> wrote: > In the Twin Cities, most winters it is possible to paddle all season-long > on > the Mississippi River in the current below the Ford Dam. > The Columbia River has not frozen from shore-to-shore in decades here in central Washington but Moses Lake almost always freezes over completely by mid-November. I live on an arm (which locals call a "horn") of the lake that is almost completely enclosed by a railroad fill (with a small opening) to the north and the I-90 fill (with a small opening) to the south so we freeze faster than the rest of this lake. I always take the Nimbus Telkwa when there is a danger of ice because of its very high initial stability. It's also tough enough so that I've used it as an impromptu ice breaker; but I think I've outgrown that little trick. A capsize when surrounded by ice makes most rescues problematic depending upon the thickness of the ice cover. A roll can be difficult and even swimming to shore could be impossible through ice cover. If I simply *must* paddle I generally head to Puget Sound where the winter temperatures (both air and water) are often only 5 degrees different in winter than they are on may summer days. Of course, to get there I have to drive across a mountain pass and my timing for that drive has often been poor. It's a 3 hour drive at the best of times and if there is an avalanche a person could be stuck for hours. There is a "traveler's rest" bathroom facility at the summit of Snoqualmie Pass (3000 feet on I-90) and I'm always shocked at the numbers of people who are dressed in shorts and tee-shirts with sandals or flip-flops for a drive across the Cascade Mountains in winter. We always carry blankets, warm clothing and emergency shelters in our cars winter and summer. Just a leftover from the years past I guess. There is still a good chance of being trapped, sliding off the road, or getting involved in an accident so it's wise to be prepared for it. Two years ago at 2am a pickup truck pulled up next to us at Traveler's Rest and the guy got out and padded to the bathroom in his slippers and jammies. He thoughtfully left the truck running to keep it warm for his daughter who was asleep in the cab. While he was inside his daughter woke up and also went in to the bathroom in her jammies. She was careful to lock the truck up. When dad got back he couldn't get in because, surprise, his keys were in the ignition. They ended up breaking a side window to get in and then had to drive a couple of hundred miles with a nice breeze in the cab. I bet they got dressed on that last leg. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it pays to think about the drive to/from the put-in as well as your trip on the water. Don't just assume that the only problem you might face will be in a kayak. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Doesn't anyone paddle any more? > > GW > I have been shut out by the weather lately. Lots of rain, wind with temps around freezing. Not my definition of fun. However I may have a weather window Friday. Temps in mid 30's partly cloudy and some of the highest tides of the year. Hopefully the winds will cooperate. By Saturday the winds are predicted to be 35 knots with 50 knot gusts out of Bay and Passes. Not a good time to be on the water. If I have a good trip I will send out a trip report. take care Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I still anguish over the fate of James Kim, who attempted to drive with his family from I-5 to the southern Oregon coast in the middle of winter over a seldom used and substandard Bear Camp road through the mountains. Had they taken a more traveled route, and had they carried sufficient supplies with them, James Kim would not have paid the ultimate price. I carry a down sleeping bag and snow shovel in my vehicle the year round, even on kayak trips. Even that may not guarantee survival. Brad Craig Jungers narrated: > If I simply *must* paddle I generally head to Puget Sound where the winter > temperatures (both air and water) are often only 5 degrees different in > winter than they are on may summer days. Of course, to get there I have to > drive across a mountain pass and my timing for that drive has often been > poor. It's a 3 hour drive at the best of times and if there is an > avalanche > a person could be stuck for hours. > > There is a "traveler's rest" bathroom facility at the summit of Snoqualmie > Pass (3000 feet on I-90) and I'm always shocked at the numbers of people > who > are dressed in shorts and tee-shirts with sandals or flip-flops for a > drive > across the Cascade Mountains in winter. We always carry blankets, warm > clothing and emergency shelters in our cars winter and summer. Just a > leftover from the years past I guess. There is still a good chance of > being > trapped, sliding off the road, or getting involved in an accident so it's > wise to be prepared for it. > > Two years ago at 2am a pickup truck pulled up next to us at Traveler's > Rest > and the guy got out and padded to the bathroom in his slippers and > jammies. > He thoughtfully left the truck running to keep it warm for his daughter > who > was asleep in the cab. While he was inside his daughter woke up and also > went in to the bathroom in her jammies. She was careful to lock the truck > up. When dad got back he couldn't get in because, surprise, his keys were > in > the ignition. They ended up breaking a side window to get in and then had > to > drive a couple of hundred miles with a nice breeze in the cab. I bet they > got dressed on that last leg. > > I guess what I'm trying to say is that it pays to think about the drive > to/from the put-in as well as your trip on the water. Don't just assume > that > the only problem you might face will be in a kayak. > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA > www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bradford R. Crain wrote: > I still anguish over the fate of James Kim, who attempted to drive > with his family > from I-5 to the southern Oregon coast in the middle of winter over a > seldom used > and substandard Bear Camp road through the mountains. Had they taken > a more > traveled route, and had they carried sufficient supplies with them, > James Kim > would not have paid the ultimate price. I carry a down sleeping bag > and snow > shovel in my vehicle the year round, even on kayak trips. Even that > may not > guarantee survival. > > Brad > I also tend to carry (a) candle lantern with spare candles, (b) granola bars & water, (c) sleeping bag, (d) VHF radio, (e) GPS, (f) cell phone. Not so much in the summer around the highly populated areas of the province, but definitely in the winter, and whenever I'm off into less-populated areas or going cross-country. They don't take a lot of space. I've actually used the sleeping bag on more than one occasion when I've gotten sleepy while driving at night. Keeps the chill off while trying to grab forty winks in the back seat. I don't know whether the VHF would be helpful or not, but, as I say, it doesn't take much space. And it *might* get me in contact with the local police. Cheap insurance. -- Darryl *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bradford R. Crain wrote: >> I still anguish over the fate of James Kim, who attempted to drive >> with his family from I-5 to the southern Oregon coast in the middle of >> winter over a seldom used and substandard Bear Camp road through the >> mountains. An ironic element of modern reliance on GPS units to guide route selection is that a couple was recently allowed (told?) by its GPS to take that selfsame route ... and they also got stuck. To do so, they had to drive past (and ignore) a couple large warning signs that the road was not passable in winter without high clearance or 4WD. Signs, simple highway signs. Ya can lead 'em to water, but ya can't make 'em drink! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I remember the Kim story vividly. There was another story years ago about a family who got into similar trouble in the mountains of Utah or Nevada on a trip from California to somewhere. The wife and baby were in a cave near the stuck car and the husband hiked for help. Interesting about someone blindly following a GPS along a road marked with signs telling them not to go there. Something I read yesterday tickled my fancy. A huge sign reading: "THIS SIGN HAS SHARP EDGES" "DANGER!! DO NOT TOUCH THIS SIGN" "also, the bridge is out ahead:" There was more to the sign but that is the general idea. The last line in small print. Reminds me of a Smothers Brothers routine: Dickie Smothers: "If all your friends jumped off a cliff would you do it?" Tommy Smothers: "Huh... not again!" Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote: > Bradford R. Crain wrote: > > I still anguish over the fate of James Kim, who attempted to drive with >>> his family from I-5 to the southern Oregon coast in the middle of >>> winter over a seldom used and substandard Bear Camp road through the >>> mountains. >>> >> > An ironic element of modern reliance on GPS units to guide route selection > is that a couple was recently allowed (told?) by its GPS to take that > selfsame route ... and they also got stuck. To do so, they had to drive > past (and ignore) a couple large warning signs that the road was not > passable in winter without high clearance or 4WD. > > Signs, simple highway signs. Ya can lead 'em to water, but ya can't make > 'em drink! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It's amazing how easy it is for a weary and drowsy driver to pass by highway warning signs at night without comprension. This particular route, known as Bear Camp Road, is winding, narrow, snow-bound and virtually impassable in winter conditions. It probably should be gated shut during snow season, but I'm not sure that it is. The main reason that James Kim's car and family were found is that one search pilot was aware of the history of Bear Camp Road, and he acted on his hunch. Ironically, he was led by James Kim's footprints to the car's location, but it was already too late for James Kim. At a press conference later, the officer in charge of the search tried to announce the news of the death of James Kim, but broke into tears and was unable to continue. It was one of the most emotionally draining news events I've ever seen on television. Brad Quoting Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>: > Bradford R. Crain wrote: > >>> I still anguish over the fate of James Kim, who attempted to drive >>> with his family from I-5 to the southern Oregon coast in the >>> middle of >>> winter over a seldom used and substandard Bear Camp road through the >>> mountains. > > An ironic element of modern reliance on GPS units to guide route > selection is that a couple was recently allowed (told?) by its GPS > to take that selfsame route ... and they also got stuck. To do so, > they had to drive past (and ignore) a couple large warning signs > that the road was not passable in winter without high clearance or > 4WD. > > Signs, simple highway signs. Ya can lead 'em to water, but ya can't > make 'em drink! > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Situational awareness. Distance, time on route, local conditions. It's often an equation that appears dead-simple after the fact(s). Among people who continue to hike higher above tree line as the afternoon thunderstorms are building, there are those who just don't grasp the potential for havoc, those who do and think they'll be fine because they believe they understand the risk, those who do and think they can be quick enough to beat it up and down, those who do and think their need to go up crowds out the idea of turning back, those who do and think their weather reading skills argue they'll probably be fine, etc. etc. and those who just decide that, today, at this hour, in these conditions, the prudent choice is to find a different route. Deciding to take a scenic route in winter, in the mountains, knowing that it will be dark long before you arrive, over unfamiliar road & territory, in a less-than-ideal vehicle...with a family. It's not condemning the adults in the car to ask what they thought the 'pay off' would be? Scenery? A less boring drive? A great story to tell the kid(s) when they got old enough to appreciate it? At what risk? When Usenet Groups were how many Backcountry enthusiasts used to connect and share information, one of the common queries was for people some 20+ hours away by car, to ask others for trail reports and what the conditions were regarding snow pack on some fairly isolated and eclectically chosen trails. Often, replies would be very detailed and reassuring. But, relatively anonymous. And I remember clearly one of the older hands on the Group repeatedly posting warnings about relying on internet replies to posts about exceptionally specific, localized conditions...."That detailed report about snowpack on the Wind River Trail #ABCD could have been posted by a 16 year old in Boca Raton who has never been north of Atlanta or west of Memphis...." I think about this every time I hear about people using GPS directions that 'tell them' to turn left or turn right. The GPS isn't smart or dumb. It is indifferent. It says what it says what it says. But you're the one who turns off the Interstate and heads into the mountains with dusk falling on the road less taken. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There's an interesting letter to the editor in the Sunday Oregonian newspaper (12/06/09). It seems there is a GPS product out there made by Garmin which directs people onto a roadway which actually turns out to be the letter writer's driveway. So many befuddled drivers have turned up at the house that the owner wants to put up a solidly built gate across the driveway, to the tune of about $1000, and wants Garmin to pay for it. But Garmin claims that the mistake belongs to Navtec, and Navtec isn't returning calls from reporters or the irate land owner. I look forward to reading the next chapter of this story in our newspaper. Is the landowner offering bed and breakfast? I don't think so. Brad Quoting William Jennings <will_at_bigwoodenradio.com>: > When Usenet Groups were how many Backcountry enthusiasts used to > connect and share information, > one of the common queries was for people some 20+ hours away by car, > to ask others for trail reports > and what the conditions were regarding snow pack on some fairly > isolated and eclectically chosen trails. > Often, replies would be very detailed and reassuring. But, > relatively anonymous. > And I remember clearly one of the older hands on the Group > repeatedly posting warnings about relying on internet replies > to posts about exceptionally specific, localized conditions...."That > detailed report about snowpack on the Wind River Trail #ABCD > could have been posted by a 16 year old in Boca Raton who has never > been north of Atlanta or west of Memphis...." > > I think about this every time I hear about people using GPS > directions that 'tell them' to turn left or turn right. > The GPS isn't smart or dumb. It is indifferent. It says what it says > what it says. But you're the one who turns off > the Interstate and heads into the mountains with dusk falling on the > road less taken. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bradford R. Crain wrote: > There's an interesting letter to the editor in the Sunday Oregonian > newspaper (12/06/09). It seems there is a GPS product out there made > by Garmin which directs people onto a roadway which actually turns out > to be the letter writer's driveway. So many befuddled drivers have turned > up at the house that the owner wants to put up a solidly built gate across > the driveway, to the tune of about $1000, and wants Garmin to pay for it. > But Garmin claims that the mistake belongs to Navtec, and Navtec isn't > returning calls from reporters or the irate land owner. > > I look forward to reading the next chapter of this story in our > newspaper. I saw that, also. I bet Garmin's lawyers and Navtec's lawyers are gonna need some Pepto Bismol before this is over. Guy with the driveway needs a pit bull, I suppsoe (grin). Similar vein: a year ago or so Garmin retracted a charting SW product (series of charts, IIRC) because of sizable errors on some of the charts. I believe a 100-ton-ish vessel ran aground where the electronic chart said there was a fairway. And, paddling close in on the outside of Gibraltor in the Broken Group, Barkley Sound, Vancouver Island, I noticed a couple of the isolated rocks weer mischarted by a hundred feet or more. Not an issue in a sea kayak, but a major problem in a motor cruiser. Must be some sort of disclaimer on limits to the resolution on those products. On my power boat's "plotter," a Garmin 198C (4-inch screen; not really a plotter), the unit tells you when you have "over zoomed," which equates to showing detail beyond the reliability of the chart. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Jim" > Some of us are lucky enough to paddle in places where boating is > possible even in the ice season. I live near the Fox River in suburban > Chicago. Hey Jim is it possible to paddle the canal where they're running the electrical current through the water in a last desperate effort to keep the Asian Carp from the Mississippi from migrating into Lake Michigan? Or would you get tingling feelings up your arm every time you dipped your paddle. I image the water is a nice coffee and cream brown! I read in today's paper they've been dumping poison into the water hoping to kill all the Carp, but that word leaked out (that's bad) and the Carp took a powder. Thousands of fish killed but no Carp. What ever they do - I really hope it works. I've been shore bound since November 11 and hope to get on the ocean this weekend with my nephew. I even headed out to buy a new paddling jacket today only to find, much to my wife's satisfaction, that I'd left my wallet at home. Rats. Winter paddling here in Victoria usually gets uncomfortable whenever you stop for a break. I've gone into first stage hypothermia over lunch and have to be careful not to chill off to fast or too far. Usually I peel off my dry suit and switch out the sweaty inner layer for dry silk, wool or fleece. But this is also the seasons of South East winds which means lots of gales and lots of tidal overfalls and rough water. Fun - if you're prepared. Gordin Warner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gordin Warner wrote: Is it possible to paddle the canal where they're running the electrical current through the water in a last desperate effort to keep the Asian Carp from the Mississippi from migrating into Lake Michigan? Or would you get tingling feelings up your arm every time you dipped your paddle. I image the water is a nice coffee and cream brown! Me: The Sanitary and Ship (Shit) Canal was dug to reverse the flow of the Chicago River from emptying into Lake Michigan. Now it sends its waters to the Mississippi, eventually. Solved the cholera problem. The canal is surprisingly fun to paddle - it has decent scenery along much of the way and I enjoy surfing the wakes of the barge pushers. The water often looks greenish, sometimes brownish depending on the sky. I haven't paddled over the barriers, but others have without noticing anything. I have often kayaked around DNR boats during fish shockings and never felt anything. One lone Asian carp was found so far amongst the thousands of dead fish. Here is an article from the Chicago Tribune: Joel Hood Tribune reporter December 4, 2009 Dozens of boats combed the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal in the pre-dawn hours Thursday, finding a lone Asian carp among tens of thousands of poisoned fish. After officials launched what's believed to be the largest deliberate fish kill in state history Wednesday night, biologists sifted through the carnage at dump sites along the popular shipping canal near Romeoville. But by late Thursday evening, they had identified just one 22-inch Asian carp, an invasive fish that officials say has the potential to devastate the region's commercial fishing industry if allowed to enter the Great Lakes. Though some might question a three-day, $3 million fish kill if few Asian carp are found, biologists know the fewer carp discovered, the better the long-term health of the popular shipping canal. "We can't say how many (Asian carp) there are out there. We're still in the beginning stages," said John Rogner assistant director of the Illinois Department of Natural Resources. Illinois has been locked in a 15-year battle to limit the spread of the voracious Asian carp, which can grow to up to 110 pounds and can eat several times their body weight a day. When researchers found the carp were pushing north up the shipping canal toward Lake Michigan, the Army Corps of Engineers erected two underwater electric barriers above Lockport Dam that effectively repel the carp when they come too close. When the Army Corps made plans to shut down one of the electric barriers for maintenance this week, the Illinois Department of Natural Resources responded Wednesday night by dumping 2,200 gallons of the toxin rotenone into the canal. Rotenone is deadly for fish but not harmful to humans, animals or most other aquatic life. Crews returned to the canal by 4 a.m. Thursday to begin collecting the scores of dead fish that began floating to the surface. They scooped them from the water with nets and piled them along the canal for inspection. The fish will eventually be deposited at an area landfill. Success of the project won't be determined by how many Asian carp are found, but rather what biologists learn about them and by ensuring they don't go beyond the electric barriers while under repair, said Illinois DNR spokesman Chris McCloud. "We couldn't take a chance that while the barrier is down, Asian carp are allowed to swim freely up the canal," McCloud said. "There's too much at stake to do nothing. We'd rather err on the side of caution." A key question biologists will try to answer during the fish kill is how large a population of Asian carp exists around the electric barriers. Researchers have collected fish DNA indicating that the invasive carp are present in the canal and have advanced beyond the barriers, but there have been few sightings of the carp in that location. McCloud said some of the data collected this week will help biologists figure out the reliability of those DNA samples. The Asian carp found Thursday was discovered near Lockport Dam, nearly six miles from the barriers. Finding only one carp suggests the population in that part of the canal is smaller than feared, which is great news, officials said. "The bottom line is we have to know what we're dealing with," McCloud said. "We have to know where they are and how many there are." By Thursday evening, biologists had begun applying a detoxifying agent to the water to limit the spread of rotenone below the six-mile designated kill area. The Coast Guard has closed that part of the canal to boat traffic until the project is done, which is expected to be late Saturday. - end of article - Me again: One of the problems with these fish is that they escape detection by 'normal' means, which is electrical shock. As I said, I have seen many shockings. The fish float up to the surface but are usually ready to swim back right after measuring and weighing. A USGS article about the carp says: "Asian carp are not readily caught with some sampling gears. For example, they are often seen breaking the water surface many meters ahead and along the sides of our electrofishing boats. Asian carp have often entered our boats without the use of dip nets. In fact, many of our staff members have been hit multiple times by large jumping fish. >From 1990 to 1999, 69% of Asian carp shorter than 20 cm were collected by mini-fyke netting. Asian carp 20 to 60 cm were primarily collected by day electrofishing (49%) and hoop netting (15%). Asian carp larger than 60 cm were primarily collected by hoop netting (42%). These results indicate that multiple sampling gears may be needed for assessing the abundance and size structure of Asian carp populations in our large rivers." So it has been very difficult to know if the fish had got past the barriers or not. One concern is that, if they can resist being shocked in population studies, maybe they can resist the currents being used to keep them out of the lake. I'm guessing that you didn't anticipate such a long. Hope you're still awake. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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I feel like an Asian carp expert now! ----- Original Message ----- > I'm guessing that you didn't anticipate such a long... Hope you're still > awake. > > > Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What this country needs is a really, really good carp recipe. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA (frozen solid) www.nwkyakaing.net On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote: > I feel like an Asian carp expert now! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> I'm guessing that you didn't anticipate such a long... Hope you're still >> awake. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:21 AM, Craig Jungers wrote: > What this country needs is a really, really good carp recipe. I was thinking the same thing. Or maybe organic fertilizer? This could be a business opportunity. It all depends on how you look at it. The glass is either half empty or half full. Or if you are an engineer, the glass is twice as large as it needs to be. Paul Montgomery paul_at_paddleandoar.com http://paddleandoar.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul Montgomery wrote: > On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:21 AM, Craig Jungers wrote: > >> What this country needs is a really, really good carp recipe. Smoke 'em; the numerous tiny bones become insignificant and are no longer a barrier to gourmanding. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:21 AM, Craig Jungers wrote: > What this country needs is a really, really good carp recipe. My uncle used to catch carp on his farm and smoke it. It tasted pretty good prepared that way. Chuck Holst __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4671 (20091208) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I forgot to add that there used to be a carp festival at the Coon Rapids Dam on the upper Mississippi River. Maybe there still is an annual festival, but I haven't heard about it for a while. Anyway, I remember the festival included a demonstration of how to smoke a carp: 1. Wrap newspaper around carp. 2. Twist ends of newspaper tightly. 3. Place one end of newspaper in mouth. 4. Light other end. 5. Inhale. Chuck Holst __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: What this country needs is a really, really good carp recipe. In what is now known as the Czech Republic, the old kingdom of Bohemia, it was traditional to have carp as a Christmas meal. On Christmas Eve. So you could find lots of good recipes if you have a Czech friend. We Slovaks proabably had carp, too, but my family always went for the even more traditonal Italian Sausage sandwiches with sauerkraut and dumplings. Drinking a few beers with a meal like that and we had enough methane to power a small city. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 5:10 AM, Jim <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm> wrote: > > In what is now known as the Czech Republic, the old kingdom of > Bohemia, it was traditional to have carp as a Christmas meal. > On Christmas Eve. So you could find lots of good recipes if you > have a Czech friend. > > Actually, you can find a lot of good recipes if you just Google "carp recipe". It's amazing. The carp (and I don't know if they are "asian" carp or just regular carp.... I keep forgetting to ask them) are huge and they typically like to lay just under the surface of the water. Kayakers (like me) paddling along minding our own business spook them and the sudden movement of water and the swishing sound they make can startle a person and almost cause a capsize. Hitting one is even worse. Every year Moses Lake has a bowfishing contest for carp which leaves rotting carp carcasses floating aorund the lake for a week or two. Very nice for the tourists. I once suggested a carp cook-off contest. I think I'll put that suggestion forward and perhaps amplify it into a weekend carnival of carp. You guys in Chicago might want to consider the idea as well. Nothing, absolutely nothing, decimates a population like being good to eat. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: You guys in Chicago might want to consider the idea as well. Nothing, absolutely nothing, decimates a population like being good to eat. Interesting you should say that. On the Illinois River there were some guys making a good living off catching the Asian carp and selling them to (wonderful symmetry) Asian restaurants in Chicago. Oddly, something is killing the carp in the Illinois and Missouri rivers. One thought is that there are so many, they are not getting enough to eat which leads to poor reproduction. Whatever the reason, the Ilinois river guys are out of business. The best carp cooking technique I know of is to wrap the fish in a wet newspaper and put it in the dishwasher along with a little water in the bottom of the dishwasher. Then put it through a 'dry' cycle. The heat cooks the fish, the dishwasher keeps the moisture in. The smell in the dishwasher is removed by doing a wash cycle. Never tried it myself. Never will. This Slovak-American prefers duck. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The best merganser cooking technique I know of is to wrap the duck in wetted oak leaves, place it in a burlap sack, dig a pit, place the sack in the bottom of the pit, pour in a few litres of water, lay about six inches of dirt on top, then lay non-river stones on top until the stones are up to ground level. Start a camp fire on the stones in the mid-afternoon. By mid-evening, the duck will be cooked, so you can decide at that point whether to dig it out and pack it out in the sack to the trailhead where you can properly dispose of it, or to simply leave it buried, for no matter how you cook it, a merganser is foul. Never tried it myself. Never will. This British Empire Canadian prefers prime rib. Richard Culpeper -----Original Message----- The best carp cooking technique I know of is to wrap the fish in a wet newspaper and put it in the dishwasher along with a little water in the bottom of the dishwasher. Then put it through a 'dry' cycle. The heat cooks the fish, the dishwasher keeps the moisture in. The smell in the dishwasher is removed by doing a wash cycle. Never tried it myself. Never will. This Slovak-American prefers duck. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Interesting. I presume this is because it lives on a diet of only fish? Anyone know? GaryJ Richard Culpeper wrote: > The best merganser cooking technique I know of is to wrap the duck in wetted > oak leaves, place it in a burlap sack, dig a pit, place the sack in the > bottom of the pit, pour in a few litres of water, lay about six inches of > dirt on top, then lay non-river stones on top until the stones are up to > ground level. Start a camp fire on the stones in the mid-afternoon. By > mid-evening, the duck will be cooked, so you can decide at that point > whether to dig it out and pack it out in the sack to the trailhead where you > can properly dispose of it, or to simply leave it buried, for no matter how > you cook it, a merganser is foul. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
According to a friend who tried it, yes, it is the fish diet. -----Original Message----- Interesting. I presume this is because it lives on a diet of only fish? Anyone know? GaryJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A really good carp recipe and a ten cent cigar. Carpe diem. Brad > What this country needs is a really, really good carp recipe. > > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA (frozen solid) > www.nwkyakaing.net > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Mark Sanders > <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote: > >> I feel like an Asian carp expert now! >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> I'm guessing that you didn't anticipate such a long... Hope you're >>> still >>> awake. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The only problem with eating a 100 pound Asian carp is half an hour later your hungry again! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Jungers" <crjungers_at_gmail.com> >> Actually, you can find a lot of good recipes if you just Google "carp > recipe". It's amazing. The carp (and I don't know if they are "asian" carp > or just regular carp.... I keep forgetting to ask them) are huge and they > typically like to lay just under the surface of the water. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote: > The only problem with eating a 100 pound Asian carp is half an hour later > your hungry again! > > Groan! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Chuck Holst" wrote; I remember the festival included a demonstration of how to smoke a carp: > 1. Wrap newspaper around carp. > 2. Twist ends of newspaper tightly. 3. Place one end of newspaper in mouth. > 4. Light other end. > 5. Inhale. Thanks Chuck, I was just on my way out to buy about a hundred punds of ZigZag papers. Seriously I had some major concerns - I mean licking all those papers together - scary man. Perhaps Mark might know the answer to this question: When smoking Asian Carp do the munchies come on sooner then the usual half hour interval? Gordin Warner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I don't know, but I think Tommy Chong did a few years in Sing Sing for selling Carp Bongs! ----- Original Message ----- > Perhaps Mark might know the answer to this question: When smoking Asian > Carp do the munchies come on sooner then the usual half hour interval? > > Gordin Warner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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