I must be a secret masochist because I keep checking the weather at Dana Point, California where Sue and I spent Christmas. When our daily high temperatures were barely nudging the mid-20s the weather at Doheny Beach was often much better... rarely below 65 and often in the 70s. This, of course, plunged me even deeper into my winter-induced depression. This week I've been feeling lots better. Our own temps have been into the 50s and I checked my iPhone before getting out of bed and discovered that Dana Point has no fewer than five warnings: Coastal flooding; Inland flooding; Flash flooding; High surf; and, High Wind. The surf is expected to get to 20-feet what with the high winds and the high tide. Even better, the high temp is in the mid 50s just like it is here. Whoopee! I felt so much better I decided to check the stock market. Uh oh. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net PS: The lake is still frozen... apparently the daily high in the 50s isn't enough to offset the daily low in the high 20s. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
We must also add mud slides and coastal erosion, ie, bluffs with a view and expensive real estate plunging into the ocean. Now, did those Southern California fires ever go out? But what really concerns me are the reports that California is drifting to the northwest at the rate of a fraction of an inch per year. I think I hear Mark Sanders drifting closer. Brad From: "Craig Jungers" <crjungers_at_gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:22 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Surfing in S. Cal. should be exciting... >I must be a secret masochist because I keep checking the weather at Dana > Point, California where Sue and I spent Christmas. When our daily high > temperatures were barely nudging the mid-20s the weather at Doheny Beach > was > often much better... rarely below 65 and often in the 70s. This, of > course, > plunged me even deeper into my winter-induced depression. > > This week I've been feeling lots better. Our own temps have been into the > 50s and I checked my iPhone before getting out of bed and discovered that > Dana Point has no fewer than five warnings: Coastal flooding; Inland > flooding; Flash flooding; High surf; and, High Wind. The surf is expected > to > get to 20-feet what with the high winds and the high tide. Even better, > the > high temp is in the mid 50s just like it is here. Whoopee! I felt so much > better I decided to check the stock market. > > Uh oh. > > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA > www.nwkayaking.net > > PS: The lake is still frozen... apparently the daily high in the 50s isn't > enough to offset the daily low in the high 20s. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu> wrote: > > I think I hear Mark Sanders drifting closer. > > I would love to get Mark up here. With any luck he'll follow Duane up for the Greenland competition at Issaquah. If we have to wait for continental drift we may have to just hunker down for a bit. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Is it really only a fraction per year? I thought it was a whole inch. I was counting on it saving me some gas money on the trip up! I have a couple excuses to get up their sometime this year, we'll have to see. Mark On 1/21/2010 9:23 AM, Bradford R. Crain wrote: > But what really concerns me are the reports that California is > drifting to the northwest at the rate of a fraction of an inch per > year. I think I hear Mark Sanders drifting closer. > > Brad *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Sanders wrote: > Is it really only a fraction per year? I thought it was a whole inch. I > was counting on it saving me some gas money on the trip up! I have a > couple excuses to get up their sometime this year, we'll have to see. Mark, we are ready for you up here. Lars Larson will make you feel right at home, and you and I, with our walrus morphology, are waaay better suited for this clime than the Newport Beach Corona Del Mar Malibu ambiance you have been suffering with down there. The real estate market is such that you can buy a really nice house for a fraction of Southern California numbers, the air is clean, the people are friendly, and there are lots of jobs ... ah, well, two outa three ain't bad! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One of the consequences of rising seas from global warming (one forecast is for a one-meter rise by 2100) is that beaches on which waves currently expend their energy will be submerged, allowing waves direct access to the bases of the cliffs on which that expensive real estate sits. Eventually there will be a new beach to protect the diminished cliff, but meanwhile, I wouldn't want to be living there. Chuck Holst -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Bradford R. Crain Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:23 AM To: Craig Jungers; Paddlewise Paddlewise Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Surfing in S. Cal. should be exciting... > We must also add mud slides and coastal erosion, ie, bluffs with a view > and expensive real estate plunging into the ocean. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4798 (20100122) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Chuck Holst <cholst_at_bitstream.net> wrote: > One of the consequences of rising seas from global warming (one forecast is > for a one-meter rise by 2100) is that beaches on which waves currently > expend their energy will be submerged, allowing waves direct access to the > bases of the cliffs on which that expensive real estate sits. Eventually > there will be a new beach to protect the diminished cliff, but meanwhile, I > wouldn't want to be living there. > > I already don't want to live there. There is an apartment complex somewhere near San Francisco that was featured on the ABC news a few nights ago. Great views on the edge of a bluff overlooking the Pacific. Unfortunately bits of it are falling off. The report was about the evacuation of the people living there. Sue and I drove up to the top of Dana Point (from which Dana himself threw cow hides down to the boats in the marina below... no, wait... that can't be right) and the houses and a restaurant were perched on the edge of the bluff. Great views though. Of course, we don't need global warming to have erosion. Erosion is a fact of life and a staple of geography. It just gets lots worse if ocean levels rise. I think I'm safe here... 1000 feet in elevation behind a fantastic tsunami wall (the Cascade Mountains). I am not nearly as dumb as I look. :D Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I seem to recall a song about how it never rains in sunny California, but man it pours. Anybody remember the words? Brad Craig wrote: Subject: [Paddlewise] Surfing in S. Cal. should be exciting... >I must be a secret masochist because I keep checking the weather at Dana > Point, California where Sue and I spent Christmas. When our daily high > temperatures were barely nudging the mid-20s the weather at Doheny Beach > was > often much better... rarely below 65 and often in the 70s. This, of > course, > plunged me even deeper into my winter-induced depression. > > This week I've been feeling lots better. Our own temps have been into the > 50s and I checked my iPhone before getting out of bed and discovered that > Dana Point has no fewer than five warnings: Coastal flooding; Inland > flooding; Flash flooding; High surf; and, High Wind. The surf is expected > to > get to 20-feet what with the high winds and the high tide. Even better, > the > high temp is in the mid 50s just like it is here. Whoopee! I felt so much > better I decided to check the stock market. > > Uh oh. > > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA > www.nwkayaking.net > > PS: The lake is still frozen... apparently the daily high in the 50s isn't > enough to offset the daily low in the high 20s. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Jan 21, 2010, at 3:33 PM, Bradford R. Crain wrote: > I seem to recall a song about how it never rains in sunny California, but > man it pours. Anybody remember the words? > Its raining men? Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
http://popup.lala.com/popup/504684655014183254 On 1/21/2010 12:33 PM, Bradford R. Crain wrote: > I seem to recall a song about how it never rains in sunny California, but > man it pours. Anybody remember the words? > > Brad > > Craig wrote: *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, I have Friday off and plan to drive along the coast, drink coffee, have lunch, and check out the waves and storm damage. The National Weather Service forecast shows 15-20 foot surf, but the swell is shown as 8-10 feet in the inner waters, so I'm thinking the surf won't be very spectacular. I supposed Doug Lloyd would go for a paddle in this storm, but the water is polluted from all the urban run-off. Plus, the lifeguards and harbor patrol wouldn't be happy about it. There's no sense stressing them out, not to mention sometimes it's just silly to be on the water. Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>wrote: > > I supposed Doug Lloyd would go for a paddle in this storm, but the water is > polluted from all the urban run-off. Plus, the lifeguards and harbor patrol > wouldn't be happy about it. There's no sense stressing them out, not to > mention sometimes it's just silly to be on the water. > > I don't think that Doug would be dissuaded by polluted water. After all, he paddles around Victoria, BC which has famously been dumping all its sewage directly into the Straits of Juan de Fuca; despite strict rules which say that *I* have to either hold it or find something to hold it. Can a 10-foot swell produce 20-foot surf? I bet a campsite at Doheny would be plenty exciting today and tomorrow! Enjoy your coffee. :) Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, Now you know why the 10-foot sand wall was built between your campsite and the ocean. I bet it's washed away by now. I'm also wondering if the surf has washed out the parking lot at San Onofre. Duane --- On Thu, 1/21/10, Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> wrote: > Can a 10-foot swell produce 20-foot surf? > > I bet a campsite at Doheny would be plenty exciting today > and tomorrow! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>wrote: > > Now you know why the 10-foot sand wall was built between your campsite and > the ocean. I bet it's washed away by now. I'm also wondering if the surf has > washed out the parking lot at San Onofre. > > I was wondering the same thing.... for both. The rangers at Doheny said that the berm was periodically renewed but implied that it was because kids played on it all the time. San Onofre is probably vulnerable to the storms with winds in the S quadrants (and Doheny as well). This webcam covers Doheny: http://www.webcams.travel/webcam/1248106589-Weather-Doheny-Dana-Point-Marina-Mobile-Home-Estates There is a webcam on that site for San Clemente too. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> wrote: > Can a 10-foot swell produce 20-foot surf? > Not sure if this was a serious question, but I'll take the bait. Short answer is "yes". It depends primarily on the period of the swell and also on the shape of the bottom converting the swell to surf. The longer the period the higher the surf height / swell height ratio. I believe that when Mavericks (sorry to stray from So Cal to Nor Cal for a moment) is going off, the surf height is often about double the swell height. -Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Mark Perkins <marker_at_gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>wrote: > >> Can a 10-foot swell produce 20-foot surf? >> > > Not sure if this was a serious question, but I'll take the bait. > Yup... it was serious. > > Short answer is "yes". It depends primarily on the period of the swell and > also on the shape of the bottom converting the swell to surf. The longer the > period the higher the surf height / swell height ratio. > > I believe that when Mavericks (sorry to stray from So Cal to Nor Cal for a > moment) is going off, the surf height is often about double the swell > height. > > Thanks Mark. I was pretty sure that the type of bottom made a big difference but I had forgotten about the period. Not much surf here on Moses Lake.... or in Puget Sound for that matter. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, check this site out to see swell period and swell height forecasts. Pretty good graphics for that: http://tinyurl.com/ybpf57u Also, the latest issue of The Surfers Journal has a good interview with Walter Munk, one of the seminal oceanographers who developed the first models for predicting surf ... during and after WW II ... used to help decide which day D-Day would be. In training during the 1960's Marines at Camp Pendleton got training based on Munk's models. I'll save my copy of that issue if you want to peruse it later when you are down. Some killer surf footage at that site, also. Check out he Jaws slide show: http://magicseaweed.com/photoLab/ (click on Spotlight Jaws) -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Never is it silly to be on the water - over your head, maybe, but that's only because you are in the trough for those shadowy moments when the sea's a running big. Now big surf, that's different. Surf that breaks and washes across a dangerous shelf, cliff bases, while not silly, can be considered suicidal. Surf full of logs can also be a game of Russian roulette. Not sure if that is a silly activity, but I do know what the results can be - like a silly knock to your noggin (don't ask). I'm lucky here on the BC coast: lots of indents and inlets to escape, though the remnant swell at the end of these inlets on a big day can make both launching and landing an interesting proposition, with a little trickery needed to find entry and egress sweet spots. As it stands, the worst surf injuries I've witnessed and heard about were in relatively low surf values where occupants either disgorged or shoulder-extended to landward, both with sorry consequences - why yes, that was silly. The last time my souse nagged me, calling me a "silly maun" (her way of saying 'silly man' exactly) for repeatedly going out on the water at times when the authorities were imploring boaters to stay ashore or in a safe harbour or had assumed everyone was safe at home in bed at night, I countered back that a life lived in secluded safety was not a life lived at all; that a life without risk was a life without reward. She said a life lived to live another day was a life left to live. She won and my Nordy lives no more. So, I've given up the big sea for now while she fights her own big "C", I still try to figure out what is silly in life and what isn't, but can't stop thinking that I still want to "go big or go home", but do agree the to go big or go home -- and not make it home, is silly. And I suppose there are days when I think it's silly not to be on the water. Doug Lloyd Duane said: Craig, I have Friday off and plan to drive along the coast, drink coffee, have lunch, and check out the waves and storm damage. The National Weather Service forecast shows 15-20 foot surf, but the swell is shown as 8-10 feet in the inner waters, so I'm thinking the surf won't be very spectacular. I supposed Doug Lloyd would go for a paddle in this storm, but the water is polluted from all the urban run-off. Plus, the lifeguards and harbor patrol wouldn't be happy about it. There's no sense stressing them out, not to mention sometimes it's just silly to be on the water. Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It's not rain-it's one of our 4 seasons. Earthquake, fire, mud, & draught. Steve Holtzman Sent from my Wireless Crackberry er..... BlackBerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Perkins wrote: >>>>>.....Short answer is "yes". It depends primarily on the period of the swell and also on the shape of the bottom converting the swell to surf. The longer the period the higher the surf height / swell height ratio.<<<<<<<<< Furthermore, the shape of the bottom farther out to sea interacts with the swell when the ratios between water depth and swell length and height are withing certain parameters. This can serve to bend the direction that the local swell is taking. This can result in a swell being focused onto a small area and a large increase in local swell height results. Most coastal paddlers have probably noticed that the conditions are usually rougher near points of land and are more mild in bays. The shallows (often offshore of the points of land) bend the swells direction as the shallows slow the swell some focusing more wave energy on the points of land. This same thing removes energy from the swell entering a bay as the wave energy is spread out over a wider area. Somewhere (possibly the last edition of Waves and Beaches by Willard Bascom--out of print but a great read for coastal kayakers) I read about a jetty (maybe in CA) that was destroyed in relatively mild swell because of the (rare--maybe from the southern ocean) direction the relatively mild swell was coming from interacted with the underwater topography offshore to focus the energy from a wide area of sea onto a part of the jetty that was torn apart by huge waves that were confined to only in a small area. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
MATT MARINER BROZE wrote: > Somewhere (possibly the last edition of Waves and Beaches by Willard > Bascom--out of print but a great read for coastal kayakers) I read about a > jetty (maybe in CA) that was destroyed in relatively mild swell because of the > (rare--maybe from the southern ocean) direction the relatively mild swell was > coming from interacted with the underwater topography offshore to focus the > energy from a wide area of sea onto a part of the jetty that was torn apart by > huge waves that were confined to only in a small area. Yup. That's in both versions. I've got the 1984 revision, which details this on pp 82-85. The jetty affected was near Long Beach, CA, and was hit in 1930. Its tip was damaged by waves not sensed anywhere nearby. The focused waves moved large racks running to 4 to 20 tons. These originated from somewhere in the Indian Ocean, and with a period in the 20-30 sec range, were monsters. The feature which focused the waves was a hump in the ocean floor about 10 miles offshore spanning a depth range of 180 to 600 feet. The focusing concentrated a roughly 8-mile long wave front at the outward extent of the hump into an impact zone about a quarter mile wide. At depth, the waves were less than two feet high; they formed breakers about 12-25 feet high when they broke on the jetty. Walter Munk, one of the first oceanographers at Scripps Institute of Oceanography in La Jolla, details studies using wave-sensing arrays scattered about the Pacific which did the detective work tracing wave trains similar to the ones that did that damage to a source about 13,000 miles distant from the California shoreline. There is a great interview of Munk in the December 2009 issue of The Surfer's Journal, a popular journal on surfing, often stepping afield from shots of surf stars on mega waves. Munk and his family spent several months on a remote SE Pacific island, monitoring the nearby array, as guests of the local chieftain. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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