Hi Everyone, So this is my first post to paddlewise but I'm hoping some of you can share some wisdom regarding pfd knifes or hook. I've had an NRS pilot for 2 years and was happy with the function of the knife. However, in the past 6 months have seen 4 within my paddling community go to the depths mostly while practicing rescues, climbing on back decks, etc due to accidental release from the sheath. It is time to look for a new 'system'. I'm looking to minimize bulkiness and maximize functionality. I've had a few times where I have caught the edge of my knife while doing other movements (paddle stroke, roll set up) as well. Right now it looks like there are two systems: 1) carry a small line hook on my pfd and a separate knife for around camp uses 2) a multipurpose knife such as the pilot possible options: Gerber shorty, Sypderco Caspian FB22, xs scrub fog cutter. Any thoughts, experience or perspective would be helpful. Thanks! Amy Amy Richter Blakeley ar334_at_cornell.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Amy Richter Blakeley <ar334_at_cornell.edu>wrote: > > > Any thoughts, experience or perspective would be helpful. Thanks! > > > I've always just bought a relatively cheap stainless steel folding knife (from Big 5 or similar) and tied it to my PFD with a lanyard and put it into a pocket. It eventually rusts after a couple of years and then I go buy another one. At $9.95 or so I can have one on every PFD. What I'd *like* to have is one of those super-expensive Spyderco knives that never rust but I'm pretty sure that if I bought one it would go over the side and I'd be out about $100. If you mostly paddle in fresh water your choices are much easier since even the cheapies will last a long time with only exposure to fresh water. You can give 'em a shot of WD40 now and then too. But for salt water, and especially if you are in active water and wet all the time, rust will attack just about any stainless except for the stuff they make the $100 knives out of. I prefer somewhat rounded tips but I'm not a fan of the "hook" blades. I am somewhat ambivalent about the serrated blades, too. The serrations do cut through line and rope quickly but they make other tasks (carving anything, for instance) difficult. And the blades are so short that when they have a combination edge you get the worst of both worlds. But, at least for me, I much prefer folders even though they can be more clumsy to open (I've learned to do it single-handed over the years). I don't mind a lock on the blade when it's unfolded but I don't want one which has to be unlocked to open. A switchblade would be nice. :P Otherwise, not in a kayak, I carry both a Victorinox Champ *and* a belt-mounted multi-tool. And usually a small LED flashlight in my pocket. I'm pretty sure they'd both rust quickly in a salt environment kayak though. I should add that I've never actually had to use a knife in an emergency situation in a kayak before so I'm certainly no expert on this stuff. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I went with a Teckna dive knife about 20 years ago, and it has served me very well in wild water rescue. The ABS sheath has a quick release that is truly simple to use (just grab the knife and flick your thumb), but it has never let the knife fall out prematurely, despite my spending a lot of time being knocked about in IV. The knife is pointed (dagger tip as opposed to blunt tip) and has a serrated section, so it is good at puncturing and cutting through boats. It is symmetrical, so you don't have to fiddle about figuring out which side to use. It is stainless (no rust on mine in a couple of decades), and has holes in the shaft to permit clipping in / tying off as well as saving weight. I highly recommend it. http://www.tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=936 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I carry several different knives depending on circumstances. This one, a CRKT "Bear Claw", lives on my Stohlquist rescue vest: http://www.crkt.com/cgi-bin/crkt.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&strfnbr=81&prrfnbr=70&sesent=0,0&search_id=363443 with another, smaller, folding CRKT as backup #1 and a pair of cheap EMT shears (under $10 at any decent drugstore) as backup #2. Those shears are great because they can be pressed up against a person -- to cut thigh straps, let's say -- without cutting them. They live in my primary rescue gear pouch, along with locking and non-locking carabiners, a couple of prussik loops, and pulleys. This one, a folding Gerber, generally lives on my Lotus rescue vest: http://www.gerbergear.com/index.php/product/id/214 It's clipped inside the mesh pocket, making it slightly harder to get at but much harder to lose. (And yes, I've tested that by pulling it with one hand while upside-down in the boat.) Finally, whenever doing something creekish, I have this nasty piece of work in my drybag: http://www.fiskars.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&categoryId=10263&productId=10520&page=products Why? Because it can saw through a kayak or canoe. And because it's cheap enough (under $15) that even if I only use it once, it's worth the cost and the effort to lug it around for years. The thing is, any time you actually have to use a knife in a rescue, there's a decent chance you'll lose it. My old Gerber straight blade rode around on my vest for over a decade, never out of its sheath, until the day I had to cut a line loose in a very big hurry. Five seconds later, it was gone, lost into deep water in class IV drop. But (a) it served its purpose and (b) that's why I carry backups. There's no universal answer to the knife question; I think "what works for you" is best. The one thing that I think might approach a common factor is "can you draw the knife and use it with one hand?" followed closely by "with *either* hand?" Another possibility is "can you do it when your hands are cold and numb?" ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Does anyone make one of these with all the parts in stainless? I paddle and ski with one in my first aid kit, but replace it every few years due to severe rusting of the release mechanism. The blade rust is no big problem -- I just sand it down. The problem is that the release mechanism for the folding blade rusts and jams up. Richard Culpeper -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Rich Kulawiec . . . Finally, whenever doing something creekish, I have this nasty piece of work in my drybag: http://www.fiskars.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=1000 1&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&categoryId=10263&productId=10520&page=products Why? Because it can saw through a kayak or canoe. And because it's cheap enough (under $15) that even if I only use it once, it's worth the cost and the effort to lug it around for years. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>wrote: > Does anyone make one of these with all the parts in stainless? I paddle > and > ski with one in my first aid kit, but replace it every few years due to > severe rusting of the release mechanism. The blade rust is no big problem > -- I just sand it down. The problem is that the release mechanism for the > folding blade rusts and jams up. > > Take a look at this link: http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Serrated-Yellow-Steel-Knife/dp/B001EIAYVC/ref=pd_sbs_sg_3 Or go look at Spiderco's web site for other versions of their "salt" knives made from H-1 stainless. This is rated to "never rust" even in salt water. But since I've never owned one (Amazon has the cheapest prices and they run $50 and up) I can't vouch for all the bits being rust-free. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Does anyone make one of these with all the parts in stainless? Richard, The Spyderco H2 knives are made so that all parts are resistant to rust. I've had one sit in saltwater for a week without any rust showing. Conversly I have had one in my pdf for several months with some rust showing on the blade. All the best Jeff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 02:19:29PM -0400, Richard Culpeper wrote: > Does anyone make one of these with all the parts in stainless? I paddle and > ski with one in my first aid kit, but replace it every few years due to > severe rusting of the release mechanism. The blade rust is no big problem > -- I just sand it down. The problem is that the release mechanism for the > folding blade rusts and jams up. Not that I know of. I do the same -- replace it every few years. Incidentally, NRS sells a version of their "Pilot" knife that's made of titanium. The good news is that it'll hold up to anything; the bad news is that it's expensive (of course). ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Amy is] looking to minimize bulkiness and maximize functionality. I've had a few times where I have caught the edge of my knife while doing other movements (paddle stroke, roll set up) as well. Right now it looks like there are two systems: 1) carry a small line hook on my pfd and a separate knife for around camp uses 2) a multipurpose knife such as the pilot possible options: Gerber shorty, Sypderco Caspian FB22, xs scrub fog cutter. +++++++++++ One decent alternative to a bladed knife is a "strap cutter" device similar to ones used by paramedics and rescue crews. (In an earlier life, we called them "shroud cutters" since they were issued to pilots to quickly cut away parachute shrouds if fouled on landing.) One economy unit made by Ontario knife can be seen at http://www.ontarioknife.com/catalog/item/17. (Was about $20 at Beacon Surplus in Waldorf, Maryland.) Downside, the blade is steel: countering that, it's really for emergency cutting, and you can gunk it up with some persistent lubricant and stow it away for the long haul in its sheath, sewn to a flat bit of PFD. Those Ontario knives are lousy for spreading peanut butter, however. For that more frequent use, I use an old Gerber River Shorty, pilot-proofed with a dull point and a single, serrated edge. It's been stuck upside down in its plastic sheath for years without loss. It's a tad rusty, but cleans up from time to time with WD40. I added some duct tape -- what else? -- to bulk up the hilt where it locks up in the sheath, and it seems to be happy in there. No escapes yet. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Published in the Journal of Emergency Medicine: Trauma Scissors vs. the Rescue Hook, Exposing a Simulated Patient: A Pilot Study Timothy R. Hurtado, DO, FACEP, Chris Montoya, MPAS, PA-C Received 19 February 2007; accepted 8 June 2007. published online 03 January 2008. Abstract The objective of this study was to compare the exposure times using trauma scissors vs. the rescue hook on a simulated patient. This was a prospectively randomized, parallel group comparison study with two arms. The control group used trauma scissors (15 cycles), and the intervention group used rescue hooks (15 cycles). The uniform and footwear were standardized for each cycle. Ten participants were trained on each instrument. For each cycle, four participants were randomly chosen, and the use of either instrument was randomized. Each participant was then queried about their preferences for either instrument and why. The rescue hook's mean time of exposure was 24 s with a SD of 7 s and a 95% confidence interval (CI) of 20b28 s. The trauma scissors' mean exposure time was 42 s with a SD of 5 s and a 95% CI of 39b45 s. The mean difference was 18 s, with a 95% CI of 13b23 s. On average, the rescue hook was 43% faster. Nine of 10 participants preferred the rescue hook, stating that it was faster, easier, smaller, and more durable. The rescue hook was found to be faster than trauma scissors when exposing a simulated patient, and it was the instrument preferred by the majority of participants. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Amy wrote: - >However, in the past 6 months have seen 4 within my paddling community >go to the depths mostly while practicing rescues, climbing on back decks, >etc due to accidental release from the sheath. It is time to look for >a new 'system'. G'Day Amy, Re' losing a knife during rescues, that's happened to me two or three times, I'm a slow learner. So I drilled a hole in the end of the plastic handle of the knife furthest from the blade. The hole was about 3mm, slightly larger than the diameter of a 37cm long 3mm diameter bungee line. 37 cm allows me to use the knife at full arms length when the cord is stretched. I tied one end of the bungee line with a figure eight stopper knot and threaded it through the hole and tied the other end to a ring on the Tusa holster. When kayaking the line is wrapped four times around the handle before placing the knife in the holster, which keeps the line from snagging and allows it enough stretch to be able to release and use it when needed. This technique requires a stretchable bungee line a non stretching cord is too long, fiddly and doesn't tidy away as well. In 12 years I've only used a knife for cutting oysters off rocks! But I'm glad its there. If you would like a series of photo's on how to fit the holster to a PFD and to show how the line is fitted. I can send them to you. You might want to try a Tusa rescue knife, http://www.blue-earth.biz/accessories.aspx?sub_id=14. I've used them in salt water all the time and generally rinse it in fresh water after use. It's never shown any sign of rust. On one occasion a new knife jammed when I used it in an old holster. The holster had been under a fair bit of stress during rescues so that may have been the problem. Anyway its worth regularly checking that the knife comes out easily after releasing the catch. I check it every time I rinse the PFD. All the best, Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply including old headers and footers. It's list policy.... this post was modified to meet policy] Hi Everyone, Thank you for all the suggestions and advice! I'll take a closer look at everything and will report back in a couple of months after testing 'the system.' :-) Happy paddling! Amy Amy Richter Blakeley ar334_at_cornell.edu On Aug 12, 2010, at 7:33 AM, PeterO wrote: > Amy wrote: - >> However, in the past 6 months have seen 4 within my paddling >> community >> go to the depths mostly while practicing rescues, climbing on back >> decks, >> etc due to accidental release from the sheath. It is time to look for >> a new 'system'. > > G'Day Amy, > > Re' losing a knife during rescues, that's happened to me two or > three times, > I'm a slow learner. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A couple of years ago I switched to using EMT shears. Sometimes I miss my old sharp-point (1-sided) Gerber, but this seems to work. They are cheap ($4.95--$7.95) and will cut almost anything. They are safe to cut something wrapped around a bodypart. They seem to be better then a knife on cutting things that are not taut. Interestingly, they fit into the plasitc patch on my PFD--fairly securely but easily removeable. GaryJ On 09/08/2010 9:26 PM, Amy Richter Blakeley wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > So this is my first post to paddlewise but I'm hoping some of you can > share some wisdom regarding pfd knifes or hook. I've had an NRS pilot > for 2 years and was happy with the function of the knife. However, in > the past 6 months have seen 4 within my paddling community go to the > depths mostly while practicing rescues, climbing on back decks, etc > due to accidental release from the sheath. It is time to look for a > new 'system'. > > I'm looking to minimize bulkiness and maximize functionality. I've > had a few times where I have caught the edge of my knife while doing > other movements (paddle stroke, roll set up) as well. Right now it > looks like there are two systems: 1) carry a small line hook on my > pfd and a separate knife for around camp uses 2) a multipurpose knife > such as the pilot possible options: Gerber shorty, Sypderco Caspian > FB22, xs scrub fog cutter. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I keep one of these stainless steel knives in the pocket of my pfd. Does the blade rust? The answer is yes. Bradford R. Crain > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Richard Culpeper > <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>wrote: > >> Does anyone make one of these with all the parts in stainless? I paddle >> and >> ski with one in my first aid kit, but replace it every few years due to >> severe rusting of the release mechanism. The blade rust is no big >> problem >> -- I just sand it down. The problem is that the release mechanism for >> the >> folding blade rusts and jams up. >> >> Take a look at this link: > > http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Serrated-Yellow-Steel-Knife/dp/B001EIAYVC/ref=pd_sbs_sg_3 > > Or go look at Spiderco's web site for other versions of their "salt" > knives > made from H-1 stainless. This is rated to "never rust" even in salt water. > But since I've never owned one (Amazon has the cheapest prices and they > run > $50 and up) I can't vouch for all the bits being rust-free. > > Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bradford R. Crain wrote: > I keep one of these stainless steel knives in the pocket of my pfd. Does > the blade rust? The answer is yes. Brad, there is stainless ... and then their is stainless. Google up 304, 316, and 306 stainless. They vary enormously in their resistance to corrosion, particularly in a marine environment. Then, Google up crevice corrosion and stainless together. Just because it is "a" stainless steel does not mean it is immune to corrosion. Many manufacturers will not easily reveal the alloy used in their knives. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Between us, my husband and I lost 3, or maybe 4 Gerber shorties. We both now carry Boye folding knives. The clip is more secure, and a side benefit is that the knives are made of titanium, so they absolutely don't rust, even if we forget to wash the salt water off them.Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Aug 11, 2010, at 10:36 AM, jvolin_at_optonline.net wrote: > Between us, my husband and I lost 3, or maybe 4 Gerber shorties. We both now > carry Boye folding knives. The clip is more secure, and a side benefit is > that the knives are made of titanium, so they absolutely don't rust, even if > we forget to wash the salt water off them.Joan Shorties rust which kinda sucks. I did solve the sheath problem by purchasing a Class V whitewater sheath made by a guy in NC. Its a bear to find his site IIRC so get out your Google magic if interested. The sheath really works. It works like a cops holster. It keeps the the item in place until needed. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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