Now residing in my garage! And though, according to the sticker inside, it was licensed to Northwest by Matt and Cam Broze, I hope I'm within my rights to call it my first Mariner! I brought my friends Ken and Barb down to San D in order to provide some perspective, but I guess it didn't work, because despite their misgivings, I bought the Escape anyway! It looked pretty pathetic sitting on top of some credenzas in the estate sale shop and closer inspection didn't help. Filthy, moldy, it bore that sun baked look that's supposed to send you running for the door. But up close, there was no mistaking the Mariner look. It didn't help that while residing outside along the side of someone's house, overspray from some stucco job peppered a good portion of the boat. Running my hands down those sleek lines of the hull only provided dirt and a chalky gelcoat hand coating. I'd already gotten the store down to $200, but K&B were walking away shaking their head and I was starting to lose my resolve. I asked the owner to drop it down to $160, but he knew I'd just driven 100 mile to see the boat and he wouldn't budge. Some might say I have a reputation for being cheap, but not too many of them would have pulled the trigger! Still, there were no glaring structural defects. If the gelcoat was chalky, the rest of the FG seemed in decent shape. It's missing the back hatch cover and the seat was loose and the rails don't look like what I'd expect them to look, but those were minor considerations. Sitting there, it was perhaps the only Mariner I might have a chance to own, so on the car it went. At home after a hose down with a scrubby sponge, I have some hope. The stucco doesn't come off easy, but doesn't seem to do much more damage to the GC than the sun has already done. The chalkyness seems to come off with one scrubbing leaving a rather smooth orange peel look to the GC. Sitting in the boat, I'm amazed at the size--and this is coming from someone who owns a QCC 500!! My size 13 feet come nowhere near the top of the deck. The front deck seems to go on for eternity! This definitely could give my QCC a run for the money as far as a gear hauler to Catalina. Lots of clean up and outfitting to do and I hope no glaring FG issues pop up. Might just take it out tomorrow to reacquaint it with salt water where an endless supply of water can help me clean out all the filthy crannies. Anyway, I'm on an adventure and you never know how they're going to turn out! Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark You can probably sand or file the worst of the stucco off. Sun degraded chalky gelcoat can probably be restored (both its shine and original color) if you rub it down with a cloth and some slightly abrasive fiberglass cleaner, such as Meguires Machine Cleaner. If it is the neoprene top cover for the rear hatch that is missing you can get one from Snap Dragon Designs. Tell them it is for a NW Kayaks Escape size rear hatch. Note: if you store the neoprene hatch cover off the rim and out of the sun it will not get stretched out and will last a lot longer. If it is the hard cover that is missing, let me know and I'll tell you what I would do to make a fairly simple but effective replacement for it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks Matt, I appreciate all your info. I've removed all the stucco, which was a lot of work, but didn't seem to damage the GC too much. As I said, one scrubbing with a scrubby sponge seemed to take off the chalkyness of the GC, but it definitely needs to be polished. I'm glad the boat is all white, as that seems to hide the age better. I do have the FG hatch cover, so I'll just need the neoprene cover for it. I've included a link to some photos I took in case anyone wants to answer a few more questions. I wonder if the seat in this boat is the original Mariner design. Sadly for me, it wasn't designed to fit a rear end like mine! It does slide on a type of rail system, but there's no way to lock it in. The rails almost look like they were added later, but I'm not sure. One thing that has me baffled is the large plastic piece by the back hatch with the word "Scotty" written on it! I wonder if it held on some kind of latch for the hatch? Never seem anything like it before. The boat also has three holes on each side in front of the cockpit where other boats usually have bungees, so I wonder if it held some kind of rail for bungee attachment. The rudder has a line to lift it, but I assume relies on the heavy blade for lowering for use. I thought the boat turned nicely on it's own, so if I plan to keep the boat, I don't think I'll be using it. My foam seat from my QCC fits it nicely, but that leaves me without a backband for the time being. I'll be taking it out for a spin Sun. or Mon. in the mean time. http://www.sandmarks.net/Escape/Escape1.html Mark Sanders On 9/15/2012 3:51 AM, MATT MARINER BROZE wrote: > Mark > You can probably sand or file the worst of the stucco off. Sun degraded chalky > gelcoat can probably be restored (both its shine and original color) if you > rub it down with a cloth and some slightly abrasive fiberglass cleaner, such > as Meguires Machine Cleaner. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Man, a kayak covered in stucco sounds like a real drag. Just say'n. Brad On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote: > Thanks Matt, I appreciate all your info. > > I've removed all the stucco, which was a lot of work, but didn't seem to > damage the GC too much. As I said, one scrubbing with a scrubby sponge > seemed to take off the chalkyness of the GC, but it definitely needs to be > polished. I'm glad the boat is all white, as that seems to hide the age > better. I do have the FG hatch cover, so I'll just need the neoprene cover > for it. > I've included a link to some photos I took in case anyone wants to answer > a few more questions. I wonder if the seat in this boat is the original > Mariner design. Sadly for me, it wasn't designed to fit a rear end like > mine! It does slide on a type of rail system, but there's no way to lock it > in. The rails almost look like they were added later, but I'm not sure. > One thing that has me baffled is the large plastic piece by the back hatch > with the word "Scotty" written on it! I wonder if it held on some kind of > latch for the hatch? Never seem anything like it before. > The boat also has three holes on each side in front of the cockpit where > other boats usually have bungees, so I wonder if it held some kind of rail > for bungee attachment. > The rudder has a line to lift it, but I assume relies on the heavy blade > for lowering for use. I thought the boat turned nicely on it's own, so if I > plan to keep the boat, I don't think I'll be using it. My foam seat from my > QCC fits it nicely, but that leaves me without a backband for the time > being. I'll be taking it out for a spin Sun. or Mon. in the mean time. > > http://www.sandmarks.net/**Escape/Escape1.html<http://www.sandmarks.net/Escape/Escape1.html> > > Mark Sanders > > On 9/15/2012 3:51 AM, MATT MARINER BROZE wrote: > >> Mark >> You can probably sand or file the worst of the stucco off. Sun degraded >> chalky >> gelcoat can probably be restored (both its shine and original color) if >> you >> rub it down with a cloth and some slightly abrasive fiberglass cleaner, >> such >> as Meguires Machine Cleaner. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think the stuccoists were real professionals though. Seems like they must have turned the boat over to cover both sides!! M On 9/15/2012 3:32 PM, Bradford Crain wrote: > Man, a kayak covered in stucco sounds like a real drag. Just say'n. > > Brad > > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote: *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At least they were thorough. I liked my Escape although it was one built by Matt and Cam and not by NWK. I kept it at the Whidbey Island lot hidden in the bushes until someone made off with it. They put it on craigslist 3 months later and a friend gave me a head's-up so we had the cops help me repossess it. It helped that I could identify everything in the pockets of the PFD that he offered for sale. Said his dad gave him the kayak. LOL. Cops were happy to have an excuse to keep an eye on him but couldn't arrest him for some reason. Then it burned up in the great shop fire of February, 2009. :( That boat is huge! I am sure I could sleep in it. Seriously! I had the sliding seat and while it was not as easy to move as my Express' seat, it worked pretty well. But the Escape does not need a rudder! I never surfed it but I suspect that it would surf nicely. You should try it and let us know. I never tried to roll it either but it might be a handful. Craig On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote: > I think the stuccoists were real professionals though. Seems like they > must have turned the boat over to cover both sides!! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If the seat is like a bucket seat, it was designed around my rear end. This is what NWK used at first and it had footpedals that were attached to it that also slid on a 1" aluminum strap (NWK) or with a Nylon bolt in a C-channel (Mariner). NWK didn't put the seat and slide plate together very well, at one point even trying to glue them together with globs of Bondo like filler rather than glassing them together. Also the plastic track that ran on the 1" strap to hold up the sliding foot pedals mostly broke and they often didn't sand the bottom of the rubber or vinyl seat holding tracks and the glass below them when they glued them in with contact cement so many of the seat tracks were coming up on NWK's Escapes (while none did on the ones that I glued down). I saw one coming off while still new in the showroom of a local retail competitor once. That was the last straw, and we ended NWK being able to offer the sliding seat versions at that time. They still used that bucket seat for a little while and held it down to the hull with the same rubber or vinyl track material but used shorter tracks with a stop glued on sat the back so the seat couldn't slide back too far back (at least until those stops came unglued too) when someone pushed on the stock adjustable fixed foot pedals (or on both rudder pedals at the same time if it had a rudder). I'm guessing that is the system that you got. I suggest you just get a backband and use your QCC seat or get a Spirit Line foam seat (if you want to use both kayaks at the same time). At this point in writing to you I looked at the pictures link you provided and confirmed my last guess above was correct as to your Escape's seat. Looking at the seat size in the picture I'm remembering that the then NWK owner also had made a smaller bucket seat mold that fit his skinny butt better (I think that is likely the one on this boat as it looks pretty small in the picture--although the larger standard that fit me one might not fit you either). The hold down rubber or vinyl white (carpet edge) rails for the removable (by sliding forward) seat were probably original unless they had needed to be replaced or glued down again later. I also noticed from the pictures that this was one of the wholesale kayaks that had a 4" front hatch and a foam bulkhead in the front (that probably, from what I can tell of the picture, enclosed off an inadequate amount of buoyancy by itself but left room for an XL gear storage bag between the foot pedals and the bulkheads. It was this kind of thing that drove us nuts. How is someone supposed to use the space blocked off by a bulkhead through a 4" or 6" hatch? But to NWK it satrisfied the retail stores request that the kayaks they ordered have a bow bulkhead I guess. Later NWK put a larger bow hatch with a lid and neoprene cover on the bows (much like on the stern). If I were you, I'd cut out the foam bulkhead and use a large float bag like the stern bag available from George Gonseth's Kayak Academy now (when paddling empty and large gear bags loaded through the cockpit for camping trips). If you leave what is there already, then I'd use an XL dry sack filled with light pile garments (or crumpled up paper) between the foot pedals and bulkhead to give you adequate flotation for rescues when paddling without gear loads. The Scotty deck fitting held a bent 1/4" stainless steel rod that could hold a fishing pole for trolling for salmon. Most of the Scotty mounting plates we used were blue in color. The mount needed to be mounted far enough back that you could turn and reach back with a pretty straight arm to reach the fishing rod if you got a strike (or wanted to use the pole for jigging for bottom fish). If it was mounted too close to the cockpit it was very awkward to reach the fishing rod behind you with your very bent elbow in the way. The cockpit was set up so that the trim position for the Escape kayak (floating level) would be with a persons back of the seat would be about 6" forward of the inside back of the cockpit (too allow the sliding seat to be moved back 6" to adjust the trim to best fit the paddling conditions--see our manuals). For a very heavy guy who protrudes more in the front the trim position of the seat might be a few inches further back than that. You could put a level in front of you when sitting in the sat to check at what seat position the bottom is level. The early sliding seat Escapes had no seat hangers on the cockpit rim but you could probably fasten a backband to the deck somehow or use a 4" thick foam block for a backrest that rested back against the cockpit rim in back. The Escape has little need for a rudder, and for a big guy who can lean it (even when heavily loaded with gear), it responds well to a lean to the outside to make a quick turn. This provides a strong lean controlled ruddering effect, so I'd try to fix the footpedals in place where you want them and use it without the rudder. That rudder was built of nylon and aluminum by NWK and was meant to be lowered by gravity just as you supposed. The pigmented (once black) fiberglass outside seams and the fiberglass rear hatch lid have glass fibers being exposed that could leave little slivers in you if you rubbed against them with tender skin (like on the inside of your forearm). I'd paint them with black gelcoat with some surface agent (liquid wax) and a smoothing agent mixed in it to get a complete (non-sticky) cure and less brush marks. Mask off the seams with masking tape when painting them. Some other urethane Marine paints like Awlgrip might work to cover the erupting glass fibers on the seams and lid as well but I'm not as familiar with them for that use. Your last picture seemed to show some cracks in the gelcoat somewhere. If that is correct, they are probably just stress cracks where the gelcoat was once overflexed outward. Nothing to worry about unless there are exposed broken glass fibers from a crack in the structural vacuum-bagged fiberglass laminate underneath them (which is unlikely). Read the last of the FAQ's on our FAQ page of our website for directions for how to replace the fore deck shock cords that once were threaded through those six holes in the deck. We did it that way so that if you rubbed across the cords during a paddle stroke you wouldn't bloody your knuckles on raised fittings. NWK soon used nylon eyelets there but apparently not yet when yours was built. This was likely because customers in a showroom who didn't understand why it was done that way probably thought it looked like a cheap way to do it. We did it that way for all the kayaks we made unless someone requested something else because we thought it was more funtional. The figure eight knots in the shock cord were hidden below deck, The shock cord filled and sealed the very small holes so they didn't leak, and nothing stuck up that could bloody your knuckles while paddling. It was easy to adjust for shock cord as it stretched out (as all shock cord does eventually). We never saw any downside to the holes through the deck shock cord system in the 27 years we did it that way other than it was a kind of a pain for us to string it and customers who didn't know how we did it and wanted to replace the shock cord could get frustrated (which is why I added those directions to the FAQ's rather than have to type them over and over again). >From the number you gave it looks,from my records, that your Escape was built in late 1984 or very early 1985. The Coast Guard hull ID number which should be found on the right side within a foot of the stern may tell you the month and year it was built. See our stolen kayak webpage for how to read that number (which probably starts with with the manufacturers three letter ID, NWG). . > Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:23:36 -0700 >>>>> I've included a link to some photos I took in case anyone wants to > answer a few more questions. I wonder if the seat in this boat is the > original Mariner design. Sadly for me, it wasn't designed to fit a rear > end like mine! It does slide on a type of rail system, but there's no > way to lock it in. The rails almost look like they were added later, but > I'm not sure. > One thing that has me baffled is the large plastic piece by the back > hatch with the word "Scotty" written on it! I wonder if it held on some > kind of latch for the hatch? Never seem anything like it before. > The boat also has three holes on each side in front of the cockpit where > other boats usually have bungees, so I wonder if it held some kind of > rail for bungee attachment. > The rudder has a line to lift it, but I assume relies on the heavy blade > for lowering for use. I thought the boat turned nicely on it's own, so > if I plan to keep the boat, I don't think I'll be using it. My foam seat > from my QCC fits it nicely, but that leaves me without a backband for > the time being. I'll be taking it out for a spin Sun. or Mon. in the > mean time. > > http://www.sandmarks.net/Escape/Escape1.html > > Mark Sanders *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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