Thanks for the compliment. On the matter of throw weight (I prefer to call it "swing weight"; "throw weight" is for harpoons), mathematics aside, the less weight in the ends of the paddle, the easier it is to accelerate, decelerate, and otherwise to move them around. Reduced swing weight makes a paddle in motion feel lighter and makes it easier to maintain a fast cadence. In a Greenland paddle, with its relatively thick loom and blade root, I think the mass is concentrated more towards the center than it is in fiberglass paddles, though I confess I haven't measured this. Another thing that reduces swing weight is a short overall length, and though John Winters persists in thinking of Greenland paddles as long, in fact they are, if anything, a bit on the short side. For instance, I am about average height (5' 8-1/2"), and the overall length of my standard Greenland paddles, made according to traditional measurements, is 85 to 86 inches, or about 215 to 218 cm. Many paddlers, however, buy off-the-rack Greenland paddles that are too long or two wide for them. A Greenland paddle is more buoyant than a fiberglass paddle. I discovered this when I first started using one. However, I have gotten so used to the buoyancy that I no longer notice it. Some claim that this extra buoyancy helps in rolling and in the static brace, but I don't think the difference in buoyancy is more than a pound or two, and certainly not enough to be significant. A note on hand position: I have noticed that many owners of Greenland paddles grip the blade by the tip when using the paddle in the extended position. I think this position is derived from modern paddles, which are too wide to grip in the extended position in any other way. However, the whole point of the narrow Greenland blade is to be able to grasp it at any point along its length. In all the photos I have seen of native Greenlanders and those Europeans who learned from them, such as F. Spencer Chapman, the extended hand grasps the blade by its width, not its tip, so that the hands are parallel. Not only is this position more secure than grasping the tip, but in the authentic Greenland paddle, it also puts less stress on the mortise and tenon join between the paddle blade and its bone or ivory tip. Chuck Holst -----Original Message----- From: gordon terry asselstine [mailto:gta_at_islandnet.com] Sent: Friday, July 17, 1998 3:23 PM To: paddlewise Subject: [Paddlewise] Discovering the greenland This is a question about Greenland paddles. Maybe Chuck Holst and John Winter might have something to say. About four months ago I read Chucks' instructions on to how to make a Greenland paddle. A well written piece and a great starting point. I am now just finishing my sixth paddle. I am really enjoying how significant small changes can be and love how the basic dimensions are based on your body. But up until now, I have been using plane old lumber yard western red ceder. Inexpensive and as it turns out quite light. Now this sixth paddle I decided I was close enough to what I thought the final design should be. I was surprised at how much heavier my new choice of wood was-Yellow ceder. Beautiful straight grain stuff and stronger that the red ceder. Because the yellow ceder is stronger I could make the overall paddle more delicate. But the weight is still noticeable. Now the questions. By the way the weight doesn't really bother me but prompted this. 1 Throw wieght-what is it and how is it helpful or a hindrance? 2 These wooden paddles are very buoyant. With a normal paddling cadence, I'm guessing, about 75% of the time a third of the paddle is in the water. This part in the water is floating pushing upward. What are the dynamics here-does it tie in with throw weight? I'm tired of all this ultralight carbon or flatulium filled with hydrogen core this and that. So much seems to be going toward racing and white water.I enjoy the fact people think the Greenland paddle is weird. Then it is a simple matter of showing how versatile a tool this is. Most often it is then "can I try it?'. I'm guessing that the Greenland paddles shape, which is quite sculptural, has helped keep this wonderful paddle on the periphery. Manufacturing difficulties due to this shape and the added problem of body proportions. It is to bad such an appropriate ocean paddle has been left on the margins. One other observation that I found interesting is that women far out number men in their acceptance and use of this paddle I'm sure they are not just trying to please me, I'm 83 and very wrinkled. They are very naturally graceful and the body / kayak movements are not the twitchy spastic motions used with a europaddle. Thank You time for my nap ************************************************************************** * PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ************************************************************************** * ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from multitech.com by multitech.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9c for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul17.152310.1944.306688; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:23:10 -0500 Received: from ns1.intelenet.net ([204.182.160.31]) by gateway.multitech.com with ESMTP id <16129>; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:21:45 -0500 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03131 Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (intelenet.net [204.182.160.1]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03126 Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA13267 for <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199-175-107-76.islandnet.com [199.175.107.76] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m0yxHxQ-000Ku6C for <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <m0yxHxQ-000Ku6C_at_mail.islandnet.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:22:24 -0500 X-Sender: gta_at_mail.islandnet.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net From: gta_at_islandnet.com (gordon terry asselstine) Subject: [Paddlewise] Discovering the greenland paddle Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
My Greenland paddle is even shorter, 80 inches for a 5.8-5.9 paddler. I decided to make my paddles shorter when I heard in one of Heaths's videos that they behave better in strong winds, and they do. It is also more manageable among waves. Ok, yes, that is what storm paddles are for, but I also made my storm paddle shorter. - Julio Chuck wrote: > Another thing that reduces swing weight is a short overall length, and > though John Winters persists in thinking of Greenland paddles as long, > in fact they are, if anything, a bit on the short side. For instance, > I am about average height (5' 8-1/2"), and the overall length of my > standard Greenland paddles, made according to traditional measurements, > is 85 to 86 inches, or about 215 to 218 cm. Many paddlers, however, > buy off-the-rack Greenland paddles that are too long or two wide for > them. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck wrote; (SNIP) >Another thing that reduces swing weight is a short overall length, and >though John Winters persists in thinking of Greenland paddles as long, >in fact they are, if anything, a bit on the short side. For instance, >I am about average height (5' 8-1/2"), and the overall length of my >standard Greenland paddles, made according to traditional measurements, >is 85 to 86 inches, or about 215 to 218 cm. Many paddlers, however, >buy off-the-rack Greenland paddles that are too long or two wide for >them. How long would your paddle be if you were 6'3" tall. My paddle is 205 cm. Since it is already shorter than your paddle and I am taller by 6.5" it would seem that, using traditional; measurents that would make a Greenland paddle for me at least longer if not "long" . Or did I miss something. (SNIP) Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:02 AM 7/21/98 -0400, John Winters wrote: >Chuck wrote; > >(SNIP) > >>Another thing that reduces swing weight is a short overall length, and >>though John Winters persists in thinking of Greenland paddles as long, >>in fact they are, if anything, a bit on the short side. For instance, >>I am about average height (5' 8-1/2"), and the overall length of my >>standard Greenland paddles, made according to traditional measurements, >>is 85 to 86 inches, or about 215 to 218 cm. Many paddlers, however, >>buy off-the-rack Greenland paddles that are too long or two wide for >>them. > >How long would your paddle be if you were 6'3" tall. My paddle is 205 cm. >Since it is already shorter than your paddle and I am taller by 6.5" it >would seem that, using traditional; measurents that would make a Greenland >paddle for me at least longer if not "long" . >Or did I miss something. > > >(SNIP) > >Cheers, >John Winters >Redwing Designs >Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft >http://home.ican.net/~735769/ John check out http://www.jacksonville.net/~dldecker/fska5.htm#Lolly Sticks the second table Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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