I have two questions. In your own humble opinion based on your experience, what stove and sleeping bag do you like best for use while canoe or kayak camping during the summer months? Why do you like it or dislike it? What does it do better than other makes? Understanding that most things are a compromise, give good points and weak points. If you had to replace it, what would you choose this time around? We can skip the obvious "because that is the one I have" and "I got whatever Walmart had". We have all "been there, done that". Let's get down to some techno stuff about the gear. While we are at it, if you have some gizmo that has turned out to be a really neat piece of gear or you find that life on the canoe trail just would not be the same without it, you might include comments on that too. Thanks, John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Johnlebl_at_aol.com wrote: > > I have two questions. In your own humble opinion based on your experience, > what stove and sleeping bag do you like best for use while canoe or kayak > camping during the summer months? > > Why do you like it or dislike it? What does it do better than other makes? > Understanding that most things are a compromise, give good points and weak > points. If you had to replace it, what would you choose this time around? My emphasis in summer, late spring, early fall camping is on light weight stuff. I arrived at that idea after finding that I was tending to carry too much stuff and too much weight, something easy to do in most kayaks as they can hold volumes. I also decided to use my folding Feathercraft K-Light for camping, a rather small boat, and take only what I could carry on pubic transportation (boat and all camping and paddling gear) _without_ use of any cart. By thinking in terms of having to physically carry it all and not just toss tons of stuff in back of my mini-van, I began to think real small and minimalist. I wrote up in my newsletter two years ago the method I used to handle it all, my specific gear list for six days of camping and where I placed it in my boat. A version of the article appeared in a recent issue of Atlantic Coastal Kayaker. I would be happy to fax the six or seven pages of articles from my newsletter to anyone who wants it. (Sending it via email is a bit complex because of sidebars and illustration.) It isn't gospel stuff but can be of help in starting to think light, something important in kayaking as it lessens how much you have to carry up from shore and makes for a lighter overall paddling load as well. Now to your specific question: 1. Stove. Butane, an MSR stove called the Whisperlite. I am not certain it is made anymore as it doesn't appear in the Campmor catalog now. I chose it for its light weight, ease of use. I don't really cook or simmer or anything beyond heating up water for freeze dry food, couscous, coffee, hot chocolate and instant oatmeal...so my fuel needs are minimal. My Whisperlite leaks a bit and so I might go for another stove but it would have to be the same weight or lighter. 2. Sleeping bag. A Slumberjack Solite. They advertise it as a biker's or kayaker's bag. Supposedly rated to 40 degrees. It is okay at that temperature if you wear some insulation to bed. It compacts down to nothing even though it is a synthetic filled bag and weighs little and is inexpensive. I have been giving a two part lecture now on lightweight camping (as part of a two part talk that also includes speed assembly tips for folding kayaks) and people marvel on how small the sleeping bag packs down to. The same for all my camping gear which weighs just 28 pounds including tent, sleeping bag, sleep mat, extra tarp, stove and pots, clothing and food for six days (not including water but including the weight of the water containers; I fill up at the put-in). I would still stick with this bag as I don't know of anything lighter or more compact except a lightweight down bag (which I also have a North Face Light Rider) which is still tricky to use in damp environments no matter how much you protect it with a good dry bag. Oh, BTW, if you are in the New York City vicinity on Election night, I am giving that talk in Manhattan. Contact me for details. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Johnlebl_at_aol.com wrote: > > > > I have two questions. In your own humble opinion based on your experience, > > what stove and sleeping bag do you like best for use while canoe or kayak > > camping during the summer months? > > 1. Stove. Butane, an MSR stove called the Whisperlite. The MSR Whisperlite is a naptha stove (though I can't guarantee that there wasn't a butane one years ago). It is a great 4 season stove - light, tough, hot, efficient. It is a little finicky & it takes practice to get it to simmer. I love it. For an easier to operate stove, look at the Coleman Apex II. Some newer designs of butane stoves look okay too & are the easiest to use. I use a Western Mountaineering Antelope down mummy bag. Very warm, very light, packs small. High quality down is the best insulation & doesn't loose it's loft in a few years. It costs plenty, matts when wet, provides no insulation at all when wet (can kill). Don't get one unless you are experienced at keeping it dry. Synthetic fills are cheap, moderate weight, don't pack as small, give some warmth when wet.They loose a fair bit of loft (thickness & warmth) in a few years but are great starter bags. Down/feather mixes combine the worst of both worlds. Don't buy one. Mummy bags, whatever their fill, are warmer than rectangulars of the same weight & they have a hood. -- Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
1. Stove. Butane, an MSR stove called the Whisperlite. I am not > I'm still using an old Coleman's dual fuel clunker. I have a light weight Peak dual fuel but haven't used it yet. 2. Sleeping bag. A Slumberjack Solite. They advertise it as a biker's or kayaker's bag. Supposedly rated to 40 degrees. It is okay at that > Campmor down sleeping bag packs down to about 6x4 inches. Rated to 20 degrees. The nights up on Lake Champlain two weeks ago were in the 20-30's and I was nice and snug with just my birthday suit (and the sleeping bag). I want to say the bag was a little more than $100US but I'm sure it was probably less than $150US. When I'm canoe or car camping I take the 4 man tent and love all the extra room. When I'm kayak or backpack camping I take the 2 man A frame which I hate because it always hangs down in my face. When canoe or car camping I take my Thermarest chair which is great for sitting almost anywhere's outdoors. I don't like it much inside the tent though for some reason. Too much room for kayak or backpack. I also like my Peak dual fuel lantern even though I have to pump it up every few minutes. The wind screen for my stove is great and I just picked up a 'heat diffuser' (flame tamer) from a catalog to see if I can get something to simmer on the stove. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-10-15 02:33:37 EDT, Johnlebl_at_aol.com writes: << I have two questions. In your own humble opinion based on your experience, what stove and sleeping bag do you like best for use while canoe or kayak camping during the summer months? >> A good stove option is the Sierra stove --- burns sticks, driftwood, pinecones, other flotsam, puts out about as much heat as a gas stove, but you don't have to carry fuel. (For the absolute no-impact purist, the consumption of forest floor debris may constitute a viloation of principals, but, for most of us, it's probably an acceptable impact.) See <www.gorp.com/zzstove/sierra.htm>. It's light, compact and a great sea kayaking product! Another good sleeping bag for the wet and damp environments in which find ourselves is Wiggy's sleeping bags. Wiggy runs a small production shop, and his products have always been highly endorsed by Ed Gillet (Southwest Kayaks in San Diego) where I first used them; Ed's website <www.swkayak.com> used to feature them, but currently seems to be not fully operative. A little more info is available from Sierra Nevada Adventure Company <www.snacattack.com/hiking.htm> and from Northern Mountain Supply (www.jps.net/tlcserv/4.htm>, or check in with Ed Gillet's folks at his e-mail, <kayaked_at_aol.com>. They stuff down really well with an optional compression stuff sack, are light, warm, and are functional even when damp. Numerous camoing trips and a two week expedition on the Tatshenshini and Alsek Rivers proved them out. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
....... >While we are at it, if you have some gizmo that has turned out to be a really >neat piece of gear or you find that life on the canoe trail just would not be >the same without it, you might include comments on that too. > >Thanks, My best piece of equipment when paddling in N.America is my stove top expresso maker and stove top steamer...I can make caffee latte anywhere...from 10 000 ft peaks [when hicking] to remote beaches while paddling. Nothing like a fresh latte before a paddle... This combined with my fresh coffe beans I have sent from Viet Nam monthly is a must for me, anywhere, anytime... enjoy Yours naturally sylvio lamarche Wycliffe organic gardens & Exotic locales all over the globe *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Sylvio, > My best piece of equipment when paddling in N.America is my stove top expresso maker and stove top steamer...I can make caffee latte anywhere...from 10 000 ft peaks [when hicking] to remote beaches while paddling. Nothing like a fresh latte before a paddle... Just my opinion. But where did you get this espresso maker? I use such an Italian aluminium espressomaker, heat the milk in a normal pot and have to foam it than with an eggbeater. An additional steamer would be great. Perhaps I can get one here in Germany? My first mail to this list, and excuse my bad English. Rainer -- Rainer Schröter, Marburg, Germany *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Johnlebl_at_aol.com wrote: > > what stove and sleeping bag do you like best for use while canoe or kayak > camping during the summer months? I really like the North Face Cat's Meow bag I got early this summer; it's PolarGuard 3D, rated at 20 degrees F, which is about as thin as you'd want up here in Alaska. PolarGuard 3D is pretty cool stuff; really light, compressible, and stays warm when wet. I've got 2 stoves; primary is a Peak 1, burns white gas. The thing always works; a good thing too, since the only other stove among the 5 of us on a 10-day trip early this summer was a broken Whisperlite. Those are far too fiddly for my tastes. The other stove is a simple, light, connect-to-the-can-of-butane stove for shorter trips when I can get by with a single can. Can be hard to get going in the cold, though. -Fred *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have a great sleeping bag that I hate. The model name is The Cat's Meow, I don't remember the manufacture but it might be High Cascade. My wife got it at REI. As I said, it's a great sleeping bag. It's lightweight, soft, and warm. But, I just can't get use to the mummy bag design of it. I need room to stretch my feet apart, and it just isn't possible to do with this bag. The manufacture has a larger version that I often think about after I crawl into it. Usually I forget that I hate it until the next time I use it. :-( My $.002 Brian. -- ================================================================ | Brian Heifner | Email: bheifner_at_rational.com | | Technical Writer | Tel: 503-748-6743 | | Rational Software Corporation | | ================================================================ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have been using an MSR Dragonfly stove since spring this year and am very pleased with it. Likes: it simmers it boils water quite quickly it fits in my MSR 1.6L stowaway pot with lid it will burn virtually any fuel (this is a theoretical like since I have only used white gas so far) it just works (no fiddling or frequent cleaning required) Dislikes: noisy, especially at high output settings expensive (but worth it) Techno bit: This stove is different from the other MSR stoves in that it controls the fuel flow after it has been vapourized instead of controlling the flow of liquid fuel. This is what gives the precise heat control, even at low settings. The green colemans that many of us used to have worked this way as well. Harold At 02:30 AM 10/15/98 EDT, you wrote: >I have two questions. In your own humble opinion based on your experience, >what stove and sleeping bag do you like best for use while canoe or kayak >camping during the summer months? > >Why do you like it or dislike it? What does it do better than other makes? >Understanding that most things are a compromise, give good points and weak >points. If you had to replace it, what would you choose this time around? > >We can skip the obvious "because that is the one I have" and "I got whatever >Walmart had". We have all "been there, done that". Let's get down to some >techno stuff about the gear. > >While we are at it, if you have some gizmo that has turned out to be a really >neat piece of gear or you find that life on the canoe trail just would not be >the same without it, you might include comments on that too. > >Thanks, > >John >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The Cats Meow is a The North Face sleeping bag rated to +20. It is a very well designed bag and I have owned one for about 15 years. It is Polarguard which I would recommend over down for any water sport because down doesn't work when wet. If you want more room, go for a bigger bag but I recommend you stick with a quality name brand because there are factors that matter such as draft shields and differential cut that make a big difference in felt warmth. As for stoves, I have a Coleman Peak 1. It is bulkier and heavier than the MSR Wisperlights but it does simmer as well as really throw a hot flame. I just read the post about the MSR Dragonfly and I will be looking that stove up. One good thing about Coleman is the basically use the same tried and true system in all their stoves, and they all work with minimum maintenance. I stayed away from the wisperlight because it doesn't simmer and I don't like the way you have to prime it. Brian Blankinship *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
It seems there are quite a few Whisperlite fans out there. I had a Svea 123 for almost 30 years and it finally died last year. I bought an MSR Whisperlite to replace it and I guess it was just too different from the Svea. It was a white gas model, like the Svea, but, as someone mentioned, it was fiddly. It was easy to tip, it was a pain to put together, and it just seemed flimsy. I took it back and traded it for a new Svea 123. Though the Svea is a pain to start, doesn't simmer well, and is noisy, it really cranks out the BTUs. It's also rugged with very few separate parts. Since I bought the Svea, I got a Gaz butane/propane stove as a gift. What a treat to start! It's just like a gas stove at home. It also simmers well and is exceptionally quiet. The burner itself takes up very little space but the propane canisters take some space. Though I love the Gaz's strong points, it is exceptionally expensive to operate compared to the Svea. I can get a gallon of white gas for the Svea that will last me about 3 to 4 years and cost about $5. For that same $5 I get a 220 gram Gaz canister that lasts for about 8 meals. To cover one camping/kayaking/hiking season I'd need about 4 canisters. That's $20 for a year, $80 for 4 years. I'm not sure the Gaz's benefits are worth a 1,500% increase in operating cost. While on the subject of stoves, the Campmoor catalog includes a windscreen for stoves. It's a great gadget! It folds up, is light, doesn't get hot, and makes stove-starting in the wind a breeze (sorry). As for sleeping bags I have a NorthFace down mummy and a couple of L.L. Bean manmade fiber mummy bags. Though they're used in a marine environment, they both perform well, though, ounce for ounce and cc for cc, the down bag is the champ. That, after using it for over 20 years! However, the minor stress of having a down bag near water all the time is an issue you might want to consider. Get it wet and you'll have a long, chilly night. The L.L. Bean bags are well-made and come in a variety of weights, cuts, and temperature ratings. They're not the cheapest around but I think they offer good value for your dollar. As for "gizmos", besides the stove windscreen, Campmoor sells a "Li'l John" and a "Jane" attachment that are great for toilet stops on the water if you're not completely wrapped up in a wet or dry suit. It's one of those gizmos I wouldn't go paddling on the ocean without. Bill Ridlon Southern Maine Sea Kayaking Network *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> I had a Svea 123 > for almost 30 years and it finally died last year. Died! Died!!!?? They don't die, just need a little maintenance sometimes. All the parts are still available. Now the 71 I'm refurbishing is taking a bit more, rebraze the burner on, replace jet etc. but there's nothing simpler really. The Svea 123 I use is a cheap clone but the other 71 (other than the one above) is real. The 99 is better than the 8R because the box is aluminium and the lid doubles as a pot. I also use an Optimus 00 because it runs on kerosene which is available any where in the world (helicopters, jet engines, third world stoves etc.). Alex -- ---------------------------------------------------- Alex Ferguson a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz Electronics Workshop, Chem Dept, Univ of Canterbury Christchurch, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
outdoors_at_biddeford.com wrote: > > I bought an MSR > Whisperlite [snip] It was a white gas model, like the Svea, but, as someone mentioned, > it was fiddly. It was easy to tip, it was a pain to put together, and it > just seemed flimsy. Yes the Whisperlite is fiddly but works great with practice. It is much less tippy than the tank-under Coleman stoves. The Trillium stove base stabilizes it quite nicely if you winter camp or just want more stability. All that annoying foil makes a fantastic windscreen. The stove is also much tougher than it looks. -- Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>While we are at it, if you have some gizmo that has turned out to be a really >neat piece of gear or you find that life on the canoe trail just would not be >the same without it, you might include comments on that too. > >Thanks, > >John John - I really like my outback oven ultralight. It uses the larger pot in my cookkit so the only real add is a fabric device that drapes over the pan, a small thermometer, and a diffuser that sets on top of the stove to keep the flame from impinging on the bottom of the pan. It all fits in the cookkit sack. With it I enjoy hot brownies, focaccia bread, pizza, banana nut bread, etc. It works real well with the Peak 1 stove, because of the stove's ability to simmer. ,,, (o o) ==================oOO--(_)--OOo========================== Bob Washburn whiterabbit_at_iw.edwpub.com or rwashbu_at_siue.edu The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth. ========================================================= *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Washburn wrote: > > >While we are at it, if you have some gizmo that has turned out to be a really > >neat piece of gear [snip] > I really like my outback oven ultralight. I love my regular Outback Oven. I've done yeast bread, pizza, muffin mix, garlic bread, and also a Duncan Hines chocolate layer cake at -15 C (one layer at a time). > It works real well with the Peak 1 stove, because of the stove's ability to > simmer. It also works with the MSR Whisperlite with a little practice. The Whisperlite simmers quite well enough if I only pump it 5 times or so. -- Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/15/98 12:42:43 PM EST, rasch_at_gmx.de writes: << But where did you get this espresso maker? I use such an Italian aluminium espressomaker, heat the milk in a normal pot and have to foam it than with an eggbeater. >> Check out this web site for Coffee makers http://www.campmor.com/kitchenware/coffee.items.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I also have a Cat's Meow mummy bag (mine is made by North Face). I would prefer a rectanglar bag, but they are just to big. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ > ---------- > From: Brian H.[SMTP:bheifner_at_Rational.Com] > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 2:25 PM > To: paddlewise-digest_at_lists.intelenet.net; Johnlebl_at_aol.com > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stoves and sleeping bags > > I have a great sleeping bag that I hate. The model name is > The Cat's Meow, I don't remember the manufacture but it might be > High Cascade. My wife got it at REI. > > As I said, it's a great sleeping bag. It's lightweight, soft, and warm. > But, I just can't get use to the mummy bag design of it. I need room > to stretch my feet apart, and it just isn't possible to do with > this bag. The manufacture has a larger version that I often think > about after I crawl into it. Usually I forget that I hate it until > the next time I use it. :-( > > My $.002 > > Brian. > > -- > > ================================================================ > | Brian Heifner | Email: bheifner_at_rational.com | > | Technical Writer | Tel: 503-748-6743 | > | Rational Software Corporation | | > ================================================================ > > ************************************************************************** > * > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > ************************************************************************** > * > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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