Chris Wein wrote: > C'mon gearheads! > > Get a hand-held anemometer. They run from US$25 - US$165. > Try Edmund Scientific Catalog for the largest selection. > > -chris Attention gearheads, save US$25 - $165: All you need is a ping pong ball, a piece of thread one foot long, and a protractor Thread the ping pong ball onto thread and hold up in the wind. Wind speed in ms-1 = 8.1 * sqrt(tan(angle of thread)) Wind speed in mph = 18 * sqrt(tan(angle of thread)) So next time you want to know the wind speed simply: 1. Raft up, attach airspoons, or stand up in your klepper (delete as appropriate) 2. Duck tape the thread and the protractor onto the end of your greenland style paddle, and hold it up into the wind. Hey presto!!!!! Never overestimate the wind speed you managed to paddle against again!!!!!!!! Who says you don't get useful information on paddlewise :-) Cheers Colin Calder 57º19'N 2º10'W PS - For an extra sophisticated instrument, build a spirit level into the protractor, or have your native paddle carver incorporate one into your paddle looms. PPS - For a super extra deluxe sohpisticated instrument, as above but also have your native paddle carver engrave the protractor scale directly onto your paddle and add a recessed hook for the thread. PPS - ALWAYS use an authentic native greenland style paddle or storm paddle. Under *** NO *** circumstances try this with a Western style paddle - the teeth of the wind will simply whip the paddle from your hands and laugh in your face. PPPS - Always keep your tongue firmly in your cheek and out or your wise ass PPPPS - There is a actually a plan out there on the net somewhere (on a kite flyers site) for an anemometer made with a ping pong ball, thread, and a card/plywood protractor marked in the beaufort scale. If anyone is interested I'll see if I can find the site. ______________________________________________________________________ Dr Colin Calder Centre for CBL in Land Use and Environmental Sciences (CLUES) MacRobert Building, Aberdeen University, Aberdeen, AB24 5UA, UK c.j.calder_at_abdn.ac.uk Tel: (+44) 01224 273768 Fax: (+44) 01224 273752 CLUES WWW: http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/ ______________________________________________________________________ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
So let's hear it, you young, strong paddlers ... was that *really* a 20 knot head wind? What was the sea state like? > Ain't no young, strong paddlers here. Just us old folks. > When kayaking my rule of thumb(s) is/are (1) if I feel a nice breeze on my face it must be blowing 5 knots (2) when I start cussing it's blowing 10 knots, (3) when I stop cussing it's blowing 15 knots (4) when I'm paddling like hell and not going anywhere it's blowing 20 knots (5) when I'm paddling like hell and still going backwards it's blowing 25 knots (6) if I'm up in the trees its blowing more than 25 knots > I don't think I can paddle a canoe against a 15 knot wind, like on my last canoe trip, and make much progress for any real distance. I had a half mile crossing to make against what I thought was a 15 knot wind and figured it would take at least half an hour. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
There is a saying I heard early on in gettting into kayaking. The height of the waves, the strength of the wind, increases in direct proportion to the time elapsed since the trip or incident. However, having said that, I do know that I have made 2.5 mile headway per hour against 20 knot winds for two hours or so. I knew the winds were that because of forecasts and later followup of conditions. I learned from some pretty good wind punchers that the important thing to do is to get real determined and angry, get yourself solidly braced in your boat and paddle like hell. What seems to happen is that you punch through or get enough momentum that start moving you pretty effectively, whereas just normal paddling will get you no where. Overall it is important to get quite pissed off at the wind or think of someone or something you have a dislike for to get you in the proper angry mood. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:54:10 Dave Kruger wrote: > >So let's hear it, you young, strong paddlers ... was that *really* a 20 >knot head wind? What was the sea state like? > Dave, Since my wife and I just started paddling this year we have limited experience. But we did take a float trip down a section of the Kansas river a few weeks ago in strong winds. The weather forecast for the day was 25-30 mph winds from the south. Luckily most of the trip was heading east so that you could paddle along the south bank under the shelter of the bank and trees. But...there was one stretch of the river that turned and headed straight into the wind for about 2 miles. They called it "the wind tunnel". The wind was strong enough that it was blowing large dust clouds off of the sand bars (I'm talking fast moving stinging sand). Since the fetch was short the waves were only about 1 (possibly as high as 2) feet high. Some of the waves would have small whitecaps and spray. After my wife got plowed by an out of control canoe (there was about 60 canoes in the trip) we decided to sprint ahead of the canoes (admittedly most of them were novices in rented canoes (you know, take the 5-10 year old kids out for a fun day on the river like they did when they were in boy scouts as kids)). At one point as a test I stopped paddling, hunkered down over the deck to see if the 8 mph current could out do the wind. The wind won, noticeably. It did take quite a bit of effort (enough that I'm glad I only had to paddle against the wind for a short section). A bunch of the canoers ended up walking their canoes through that stretch instead of paddling. A noticeable exception was these two guys in a nice looking Old Town. They talked about paddling every year in the BWCAW and were very good paddlers. I would definitely say that was the forecasted 25-30 mph wind but I did not paddle 10 miles into it, just 2. Mel --- There are three types of people, those who can count and those who can't. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Once I paddled **one mile** against Force 8 >(35 - 40 knots) -- took me 2.5 hours of *very hard,* constant effort, >and I was completely bushed at the end. > >So let's hear it, you young, strong paddlers ... was that *really* a 20 >knot head wind? What was the sea state like? > >-- >Dave Kruger >Astoria, OR >-- >Beating the drum for old age and treachery. Hi Dave, I paddled home about the same distance this summer off Oak Bay Marina - posted it to the list; maybe you were in Haida Gwaii - in a terrific headwind, gusting to 45 knots. I know because soon after we got to land, after paddling for a very long time with inches of progress per minute it seemed, I called the Environment Canada weather report station for reports on Discovery and Trial Islands, which is where we were. I'm not young (52) but I'm relatively strong "for my age" ;) , and desperation and determination combined this time to give hi-test fuel. I did not want to go over and have my companion have to try to assist in righting me, or stabilising the boat (my Arluk 1.8) while I made a wet exit re entry. It seemed to me the sea state could best be described as 'variable'; with the gusts I really did not know what to expect, except more of it. Wind was slamming from all over it seemed and the water was mainly being flattened out by downward pressure, as I recall. We were close to land really but everyone else (sail and power) had gone in or were concentrating on getting in or trying to anchor. Diane, picking up her drum and joining in *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
dianem_at_sd61.bc.ca wrote: > I paddled home about the same distance (a mile) this summer off Oak Bay Marina - > [snip] in a terrific > headwind, gusting to 45 knots. I know because soon after we got to land, > after paddling for a very long time with inches of progress per minute it > seemed, I called the Environment Canada weather report station for reports > on Discovery and Trial Islands, which is where we were. Diane knows her area pretty well, so her use of EnviroCanada data from islands near her route is probably a good indicator of the actual winds. Others have suggested that *forecasts* are good for "measuring" wind. I don't think so. The microenvironments in which we paddle are frequently different from the "overall" wind regime which forecasts key on. Where I live, the forecasts are notoriously poor. Could be better, elsewhere, I guess. > It seemed to me the sea state could best be described as 'variable'; with > the gusts I really did not know what to expect, except more of it. Wind was > slamming from all over it seemed and the water was mainly being flattened > out by downward pressure, as I recall. This is common in very high wind situations, I believe. I have experienced the same thing in 35 knot blows. In fact, I think at 40 knots I can not maintain, even. At 30, I know I can make headway. The one time I had to paddle into such a wind, my headway, with about the same paddling effort, was governed completely by the wind force. When a gust came through, I went backwards. When a lull came through, I gained ground. I was fortunate the lulls outweighed the gusts. For reference, I'm a pretty strong paddler, and push can a Wind Dancer at 4 knots at cruise all day; however, I used to be able to push it harder, but tendonitis limits me, now. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
<<<< Several postings in the last couple weeks have included claims of paddling home "...10 miles against a 20 knot head wind ..." or similar. (At least one of these was made by a paddler soloing a canoe!) I wonder about those 20 knot head winds. Was it really that windy? Here are the reasons for my skepticism. 1. It's darn tough to make much headway against a 20 knot head wind. John Dowd, in his tome "Sea Kayaking" (p. 139 of the 3rd edition) details his estimates of headway possible against wind: Head Wind (knots) Kayak Speed (knots) 10 - 15 2.50 - 2.25 15 - 20 2.25 - 1.50 20 - 30 1.50 - 0.75 So let's hear it, you young, strong paddlers ... was that *really* a 20 knot head wind? What was the sea state like? <<<< Well, as a young paddler of 34, I think Dowd's numbers are pretty good. My wife and I were at the North Carolina coast early in September and for most of the time we were there the wind was in the 20-30 knot range. Small craft advisories according to the weather radio. We were paddling on the sound off of Topsail Island and not the on the ocean so we were protected from large wind driven waves for the most part. My SO is not as strong of a paddler as I am but she insisted on going with me one day when it was very windy. The wind was from the south and we paddled the first half of the day trip so that the wind was at our back, i.e., we went north, then crossed through some channels in the marsh to get to the Intercoastal Waterway. We went north for a mile or so and decided to turn back. It took us a good hour to make that mile against the wind. I could have made it much quicker but the SO just did not have the strength to paddle fast into that headwind. With some gusts she was actually moving backwards! Going through the marsh was not against the wind and the marsh grass offered protection. There was another open stretch of water of about a mile in length that we had to cross and it to took about an hour. I was using a GPS to measure our speed and distances. I have paddled in winds like this before, not on the ocean but on large lakes in North Carolina. When wind is in this range paddling is very interesting. I have found it is best to go into a low paddle and save your energy for the lulls in the wind. Fighting the wind is foolish. You just have to make the best speed as possible. Its like running or hiking up a large hill without killing yourself. You have to keep the effort the equal to what you were running/hiking prior to the hill by lowering the speed you are moving. If you try to maintain the same speed your effort goes way up and the hill/wind is going to win.... I have been meaning to write up a trip report about some of this because I think some interesting conversations would occur.... Well, it's almost winter so we need something to talk about... Feathered/Unfeathered Paddles: Has anyone paddled into 20-30+ knot winds with a feathered paddle? I paddle unfeathered but I think when the winds are in this range the only thing one can do is make headway. Your body in the wind is just such a huge sail that the paddle configuration is the least of your concerns.... Would an feathered paddle make a difference? Boat Design: What is severe weather cocking? At what wind speed does it appear? Rudders/Skegs: How do rudderless and skegless kayaks handle high wind and steep waves to prevent severe weather cocking and broaching? Won't ALL kayaks eventually broach to the wind and the waves? At what wind speed is this "acceptable"? Canadian Ballast Rocks: How many of them do I need to help with the problems listed above? Later... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:46 AM 10/15/98 -0400, Dan McCarty wrote: ><<<< >Several postings in the last couple weeks have included claims of >paddling home "...10 miles against a 20 knot head wind ..." or similar. >(At least one of these was made by a paddler soloing a canoe!) I wonder >about those 20 knot head winds. Was it really that windy? Here are the >reasons for my skepticism. One windy day a group of stubborn paddlers from Bay Area Sea Kayakers paddled the 6 miles of Estero Americano into what I estimated to be a 20 knot wind to the ocean. There were stonger gusts, and occasionally we were protected from the wind by the bends in the estero. We would paddle hard for about 15 minutes then run into a bank and jab our paddles into the mud to anchor the kayaks against the wind, and pant and laugh about how crazy we were. Then we would continue, knowing that at any time it would be very easy to turn back. At one point I thought it was nuts to paddle when it looked like I could more easily walk the bank. I think I was befuddled by the effort. So I put one foot out of the kayak to attempt to stand on the mud bank and sank up to my knee. Then the kayak started blowing backwards and I was almost split in two. I managed to pull my leg back into the boat. Then I retrieved my bootie from the sucking mud hole. Turns out even paddling against the wind was easier than walking, which was impossible. I don't know how long the trip to the ocean took, but we rested a lot, and laughed a lot. When we finally got to the beach at the mouth it was windy and cold but we cooked a fish (store bought) on a fire, drank hot tea, jumped around to keep warm and then paddled back. The 6 winding miles to the cars was a lot easier. Barbara Richmond, California * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * --*--*-- Barbara Kossy Communications voice: 510-234-3479 fax: 510-234-6615 * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- *--* -- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:56 AM 10/15/98 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >There is a saying I heard early on in gettting into kayaking. > >The height of the waves, the strength of the wind, increases in direct >proportion to the time elapsed since the trip or incident. > Here's one of my sayings, "Where windsurfers play, kayakers away." Barbara * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * --*--*-- Barbara Kossy Communications voice: 510-234-3479 fax: 510-234-6615 * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- *--* -- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Perhaps that anger should be directed at the person(s) who stole the ballast rocks. -----Original Message----- From: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com [SMTP:rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 5:57 PM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How Windy Was It (Really)? There is a saying I heard early on in gettting into kayaking. The height of the waves, the strength of the wind, increases in direct proportion to the time elapsed since the trip or incident. However, having said that, I do know that I have made 2.5 mile headway per hour against 20 knot winds for two hours or so. I knew the winds were that because of forecasts and later followup of conditions. I learned from some pretty good wind punchers that the important thing to do is to get real determined and angry, get yourself solidly braced in your boat and paddle like hell. What seems to happen is that you punch through or get enough momentum that start moving you pretty effectively, whereas just normal paddling will get you no where. Overall it is important to get quite pissed off at the wind or think of someone or something you have a dislike for to get you in the proper angry mood. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How Windy Was It (Really)? I can't say exactly how far or fast I have paddled in strong head winds but thought I would share this experience. I was paddling up the Rideau Canal (Ontario, Canada) on my first extended trip. About 2 in the afternoon I had just cleared a set of locks and had one small (I believe Sand Lake) lake to cross to reach my planned camping spot. The winds shifted from a really super tail wind to directly head-on and increased to 35 KM per hour. Since this was a small lake I foolishly (considering my experience and skill level) left a spot with perfectly good camping and headed across keeping near shore where possible. When I got to the locks on the other side I got talking to a chap in a cruiser. He said he almost went back for me when, as he passed me, his young daughter said "Look daddy, that man is paddling backwards". *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The San Juan Challenge, a 2-day, 40-mile sea kayak race from Anacortes to Rosario Resort on Orcas Island, in the San Juan Islands of Washington state, had a very windy second day for its inaugural run (April 19 and 20, 1997). On that second day, the official weather station at Smith Island reported winds of 25-29 knots with a peak of 45 knots. The wind was from the Southwest, generally from the side or slightly behind the overall direction of the course, but there were areas where it was directly in the face of the racers. The fetch varied, but was up to 30 miles in the most exposed areas. The seas were as large as 8 feet in the Bellingham Channel tide rip. This was based on a reliable report from a safety boat skipper that he was standing on the deck of his power boat and couldn't see over some of the tops. Even in that tide rip most of the waves were smaller, and in most sections of the course the waves were 3-4 feet. 45 racers started and 33 finished, with most of the rescues being in Obstruction Pass, where a strong current against the wind generated 5-6 foot waves. Obstruction Pass was early in the course, and triaged out most of the paddlers who couldn't handle rough conditions. Olympic gold medalist Greg Barton won the race, paddling his very tippy Black Marlin (it has a 14" water line), using a feathered wing paddle, with a total 2-day time of 5 hours, 11 minutes, for 40.3 miles! This coming year, the race will be run May 15 and 16, as part of the Anacortes Waterfront Festival. The 1997 weather was unusual for April, and May tends to be quite a bit better. The start and finish lines will be right in the middle of the staging area of the Festival, which draws crowds of 25-30,000. Hope to see many of you there! Bob Apter -----Original Message----- From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> To: PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 4:52 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] How Windy Was It (Really)? >Several postings in the last couple weeks have included claims of >paddling home "...10 miles against a 20 knot head wind ..." or similar. >(At least one of these was made by a paddler soloing a canoe!) I wonder >about those 20 knot head winds. Was it really that windy? Here are the >reasons for my skepticism. > >1. It's darn tough to make much headway against a 20 knot head wind. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Obviously you also need a slide rule. (Not a calculator with electronic parts that could fail in a marine environment). They should be pretty cheap at garage sales. Larry > ---------- > From: Kirk Olsen[SMTP:kolsen_at_imagelan.com] > Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 12:58 PM > To: Colin Calder > Cc: paddlewise > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] How Windy Was It (Really)? > > On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Colin Calder wrote: > > > All you need is a ping pong ball, a piece of thread one foot long, and a > > protractor > > > > Wind speed in ms-1 = 8.1 * sqrt(tan(angle of thread)) > > Wind speed in mph = 18 * sqrt(tan(angle of thread)) > > You can do sqrt(tan(angle of thread)) in your head? > > I'm not worthy.... > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Kirk Olsen wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Colin Calder wrote: > > > All you need is a ping pong ball, a piece of thread one foot long, and a > > protractor > > > > Wind speed in ms-1 = 8.1 * sqrt(tan(angle of thread)) > > Wind speed in mph = 18 * sqrt(tan(angle of thread)) > > You can do sqrt(tan(angle of thread)) in your head? > > I'm not worthy.... i could do the sqrt in my head, and it would probably keep my mind off the wind in the first place... but i have forgotten far more trigonometry than i ever learned ;-) and can't even remember how to figure tangent... the 18 * wouldn't be easy, though i'd just use 20!! i think i could guess as accurately as my math in my head!! bottom line, hanging my head down, i'm not worthy either... #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com----http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark ---- # mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/paddler [index to club websites i administer] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- Fortune: "In a world without fences, who needs 'Gates'" -- Scott McNealy "In a world without walls, who needs 'Windows'" -- Dave Livigni *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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