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From: John Winters <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat Design
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:02:16 -0400
John Lull wrote;

(SNIP)

>Anyway, my question to the boat designers is this:  Why, with all the
hundreds of 16 to 18 ft. sea kayak designs are there so few short sea
kayaks (13 to 14 ft.) similar to the Coaster and none that really compare
favorably to the Coaster?  Are the Brose brothers really the only boat
designers who can do it?  In case you are wondering why I like the shorter
length, come on out to northern California and paddle in the rocks along
the coast and you'll see why.

No, the Brose brothers are not the only ones who can do it. They do have a
really fine design though in the Coaster and have promoted it well or, at
least, have
found paddlers  who can recognise a good boat when they paddle it.

The problem as I see it has to do with buyer perceptions and dealer mind
sets. Most seem to
equate size with safety, speed, and comfort.

I have a design similar in size to the Coaster and yet few people will even
try it out much less buy it. Like John, I too have used my short boat on
long trips and find it handles and performs  nicely. Retailers have told me
right off the top that there is no market for an expensive (read
well made and fully outfitted) small boat. Here in Ontario retailers sell
hundreds of a poor performing but cheap small kayak but won't even stock
better small designs.

This is sad because most people buy much bigger boats than they need and,
in my
opinion, miss out on a lot of fun.

Cheers,
John Winters
Redwing Designs
Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft
http://home.ican.net/~735769/



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From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_loon.norlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat Design
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:50:52 -0400
Lumps of fiberglass are not easily marketed, whereas dreams are.

For example, one of my friends is new to sea kayaking.  His dream is extended
trips in the arctic.  What type of boat do you think he wishes to purchase?
Yup, he's in the market for something which is large and stable.

There are a few of bugs in the ointment.  First, it will be a few years until
he has anything more than a day or two off from work at a time.  Second, he is
landlocked.  Third, it will be a few years until he can afford more than one
new boat.

Although he is landlocked, he has easy ww at his door, and is one hour from a
world renowned ww section.  Within a few hour's drive he can make it to one of
the Great Lakes.  He is also in the middle of some wonderful small lake
territory.  There is a tremendous sprint club where he lives.

>From the ww and sprint he could develop some pretty good boat handling skills
which eventually could be transfered to big water sea kayaking.  From paddling
chains of little lakes he could have a heck of a lot of fun.  A Queen Mary
sized sea kayak would not be remotely appropriate to any of these.  Indeed, I
suggest that paddling about in a very large, very stable boat on relatively
calm water will do very little to develop boat handling skills.

But rather than pick up a small second hand touring kayak and a second hand ww
kayak, and simply borrow an expedition boat if by chance he has the opportunity
to get away in the next few years, he is in the market for a new Queen Mary.
Why?  He says the dream is just too hard to resist.

Hmmm, proportionately more folks in Toronto and Ottawa drive sport utility
vehicles than folks in communities in the north.  More canoe trippers wear
Tillly Hats (made of cotton to keep you shivering and equipped with gromet
holes to let the bugs in) than any other hat.  I have to wonder if much of
outdoor adventure activity retailing, including the big boat craze (and the
long paddle tradition ;^) ), has more to do with image and dreams than it does
with reality.

(BTW, you know those days of perfect sunshine, gentle warm breezes and rythmic
surfable chop; of high cliffs, deserted beaches and myriads of autum colours;
of loons calling, terns diving and geese flocking?  Those days that seem to
appear in magazines only?  Well, I just had one of them yesterday on north-west
Superior a little ways north of the border.  Dreams, even little, single day
ones, do come true.)

Richard Culpeper
www.geocities.com/~culpeper

John Winters wrote:
--snip--

> The problem as I see it has to do with buyer perceptions and dealer mind
> sets. Most seem to
> equate size with safety, speed, and comfort.
>

--snip--

> This is sad because most people buy much bigger boats than they need and,
> in my
> opinion, miss out on a lot of fun.

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From: Lloyd Bowles <lbowles_at_bmts.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat Design
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:01:49 -0400
Richard Culpeper wrote:
> 
> More canoe trippers wear
> Tillly Hats (made of cotton to keep you shivering and equipped with gromet
> holes to let the bugs in) than any other hat.

Nah, they are made to keep the sun off & keep you cool during hot summer
paddling. Just dip your Tilley in the water & slap it on your head. Try
that with some cheap imitaions & the dye runs all over you.  If those
open gromet holes bother you, I believe Tilley sells little mesh
inserts.

Of course as you say, image is the main reason to buy a Tilley. That
works for the first year & then it is just another old hat. Nobody
comments on mine anymore.
-- 
Lloyd Bowles
The Mad Canoeist
"Keep the open side up!"
http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html
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From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_loon.norlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat Design
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:19:34 -0400
Lloyd Bowles wrote:

> Nah, they [Tilly hats] are made to keep the sun off & keep you cool during hot
> summer
> paddling. Just dip your Tilley in the water & slap it on your head.

For a delightful photo a Tilly hat in use on a hot summer Ontario day, check
out  http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/winter/vic2.html on
Lloyd's page.  Lots of other great pics there too.

Richard Culpeper
www.geocities.com/~culpeper


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From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] to feather and carpal tunnel
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:19:25 -0400
Any of you out there have carpal tunnel syndrome?  How does it effect
your approach to your paddle stroke?  May it be used positively to
increase sensitivity to mistakes in technique?

It flared up the first couple of times I was out, alleviated
considerably when I wore a brace.  Any forseeable problems with the
brace?  It is more severe on my right than on my left hand, so I presume
I should learn to feather on both sides.

I know it is a rather simple operation, but I can't imagine being out of
the shop for a week, far too busy.


-- 
gabriel l romeu
http://members.aol.com/romeug     studio furniture
http://members.aol.com/romeugp    paintings, photos, prints, etc.
http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR  a daily photo journal

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From: JIM MELDRUM - RECREATION SERVICES <meldrum_at_GRDA.AVC.CALGARY.AB.CA>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] to feather and carpal tunnel
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:54:55 -0400 (EDT)
I have carpal tunnel as well.  What I have found that helps is:

Take vitamin B-6.
Use an unfeathered paddle.
Take a short break when the tingling/numbness starts.

Jim Meldrum
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From: MAX <MAX_at_solomax.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] to feather and carpal tunnel
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:39:31 -0300
At 11:54 AM 11/10/98 -0400, JIM MELDRUM - RECREATION SERVICES wrote:
>I have carpal tunnel as well.  What I have found that helps is:
>
>Take vitamin B-6.

Alfalfa is very helpful also.

MAX

http://www.solomax.com

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From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] to feather and carpal tunnel
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:04:28 -0400
MAX wrote:
> 
> At 11:54 AM 11/10/98 -0400, JIM MELDRUM - RECREATION SERVICES wrote:
> >I have carpal tunnel as well.  What I have found that helps is:
> >
> >Take vitamin B-6.
> 
> Alfalfa is very helpful also.
> 
> MAX
> 
I can go outside, across the street and graze for that.  thanks Max
gabriel l romeu
http://members.aol.com/romeug     studio furniture
http://members.aol.com/romeugp    paintings, photos, prints, etc.
http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR  a daily photo journal


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From: Bob Apter <bapter_at_sos.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] to feather and carpal tunnel
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:30:29 -0700
The carpal tunnel is most likely brought on by swelling in the wrist from
tendonitis, so anything that helps the tendonitis should help.  This
includes rest, ice, and elevation, none of which may be high on your list of
things you want to do!  Splinting is one way of resting the wrist.

I assume you are using a right hand controlled feathered paddle.  You can
reduce the stress on your right wrist by raising your right elbow higher as
you enter, using a more vertical entry with your left paddle blade.

Tendonitis can take a long time to heal.  It is generally caused by overuse,
especially of a muscle/tendon unit that hasn't gone through enough
conditioning.  Once it sets in, a relatively small amount of use/stress of
the muscle/tendon unit will keep it going.  Give it time and at least
relative rest.

But if the nerve symptoms (numbness, weakness) don't respond to rest and
splinting, surgery is the treatment;  you don't want permanent
pressure-caused nerve damage.  If you are having nerve symptoms, you should
be consulting your doctor.

Bob Apter
-----Original Message-----
From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com>
To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Date: Sunday, October 11, 1998 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] to feather and carpal tunnel


>Any of you out there have carpal tunnel syndrome?  How does it effect
>your approach to your paddle stroke?  May it be used positively to
>increase sensitivity to mistakes in technique?
>
>It flared up the first couple of times I was out, alleviated
>considerably when I wore a brace.  Any forseeable problems with the
>brace?  It is more severe on my right than on my left hand, so I presume
>I should learn to feather on both sides.
>
>I know it is a rather simple operation, but I can't imagine being out of
>the shop for a week, far too busy.
>
>
>--
>gabriel l romeu
>http://members.aol.com/romeug     studio furniture
>http://members.aol.com/romeugp    paintings, photos, prints, etc.
>http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR  a daily photo journal
>
>***************************************************************************
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>***************************************************************************
>

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From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] to feather and carpal tunnel
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:07:17 -0400
Bob Apter wrote:
> 
> The carpal tunnel is most likely brought on by swelling in the wrist from
> tendonitis, so anything that helps the tendonitis should help.  This
> includes rest, ice, and elevation, none of which may be high on your list of
> things you want to do!  Splinting is one way of resting the wrist.

Wore a brace for about 6 months after it's inception and occasionally
when wielding a hammer doing construction.  With my normal tool
operations and computer work I have managed to adjust technique so I
don't really have reoccurances.
> 
> I assume you are using a right hand controlled feathered paddle.  You can
> reduce the stress on your right wrist by raising your right elbow higher as
> you enter, using a more vertical entry with your left paddle blade.

I am very new at this, and though I learned to feather recently,  I feel
it is important that I start out with high concentration on technique
and consciously adjusting my stroke for peak efficiency-  I have to take
this CTS as a factor.  Most of the advice has been for a non feathered
Greenland style paddle which I hope to try tomorrow.
 
> 
> Tendonitis can take a long time to heal.  It is generally caused by overuse,
> especially of a muscle/tendon unit that hasn't gone through enough
> conditioning.  Once it sets in, a relatively small amount of use/stress of
> the muscle/tendon unit will keep it going.  Give it time and at least
> relative rest.

It's been about 8 years now, brought on by a rather foolish deadline on
scraping and finishing a ceiling.
> 
> But if the nerve symptoms (numbness, weakness) don't respond to rest and
> splinting, surgery is the treatment;  you don't want permanent
> pressure-caused nerve damage.  If you are having nerve symptoms, you should
> be consulting your doctor.

Got the diagnoses from a neural surgeon when it had occurred.  Hope I
don't have to see him again.  The first time didn't cost anything. 
Thanks a lot for your well considered response Bob.
> 
> Bob Apter


-- 
gabriel l romeu
http://members.aol.com/romeug     studio furniture
http://members.aol.com/romeugp    paintings, photos, prints, etc.
http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR  a daily photo journal

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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat Design
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:35:42 -0700
I bought a large, stable boat for my first yak, and it has served me
well.  As Richard and John suggest, it is not as sporty as a smaller,
lighter, narrower one.  (I now own one of those, also.)  OTOH, I can not
use the little one for watching birds and gawking at the scenery because
of its lesser *initial* stability.

Different strokes, different folks.

Different boats, different purposes.

Maybe your friend (see below) needs two boats ...

> Richard Culpeper wrote:
> 
> Lumps of fiberglass are not easily marketed, whereas dreams are.
> 
> For example, one of my friends is new to sea kayaking.  His dream is extended
> trips in the arctic.  What type of boat do you think he wishes to purchase?
> Yup, he's in the market for something which is large and stable.
> --snip--
>  I have to wonder if much of
> outdoor adventure activity retailing, including the big boat craze (and the
> long paddle tradition ;^) ), has more to do with image and dreams than it does
> with reality.
> 
> John Winters wrote:
> --snip--
> > The problem as I see it has to do with buyer perceptions and dealer mind
> > sets. Most seem to equate size with safety, speed, and comfort.
> --snip--
> > This is sad because most people buy much bigger boats than they need and,
> > in my opinion, miss out on a lot of fun.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR

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From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_loon.norlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boat Design
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:50:17 -0400
Dave Kruger wrote:
--snip--

> Different boats, different purposes.
>
> Maybe your friend (see below) needs two boats ...

He certainly does.  He can afford a couple of used boats or one new one.  He's going
for the big shiny new one that matches is long term dream, rather than a couple of
beaters that will nicely meet his needs for the next few years.  Thus my point about
purchasing for the dream rather than the reality.

Richard Culpeper
www.geocities.com/~culpeper

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