I read an article where a guy going through Canadian Customs was told they were confiscating fossil fuel burning camp stoves. A vaugue bell sounded in the back of my mind that I had heard something like this before, Paddlewise, r.b.p. or somewhere. Is this true? I suppose that would also apply to that type of lantern. They're not going to confiscate my poor old fossil fuel guzzling truck are they? :-( *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Sisler, Clyde wrote: > > I read an article where a guy going through Canadian Customs was told they > were confiscating fossil fuel burning camp stoves. A vaugue bell sounded in > the back of my mind that I had heard something like this before, Paddlewise, > r.b.p. or somewhere. > > Is this true? I suppose that would also apply to that type of lantern. > They're not going to confiscate my poor old fossil fuel guzzling truck are > they? :-( > *************************************************************************** >Kia Ora, Yes. Friends of mine returning from kayaking in Canada were told that their M.S.R.cooker(near new and well cleaned) could not be taken aboard an aircraft because of possible explosions .New ,never used ones are OK Hartbroken ;=) they left their near new gadget behind. Eddie. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Sisler, Clyde wrote: >> >> I read an article where a guy going through Canadian Customs was told they >> were confiscating fossil fuel burning camp stoves. Eddie van den Hurk wrote: >Yes. Friends of mine returning from kayaking in Canada were told that >their M.S.R.cooker(near new and well cleaned) could not be taken aboard >an aircraft because of possible explosions . Okay. Just on airplanes. It is also not legal to carry propane or butane type stoves on planes. If you are driving across the border, they let them in (or out), no problem. Only camping related item I've heard problems with when driving is the bear spray stuff (pepper spray), which is like mace and illegal in Canada if used on humans. Much of the bear spray is actually made in Canada so I don't know what their problem is.... Hank Hays *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Eddie van den Hurk wrote: > >>Yes. Friends of mine returning from kayaking in Canada were told that >>their M.S.R.cooker(near new and well cleaned) could not be taken aboard >>an aircraft because of possible explosions . > >Okay. Just on airplanes. It is also not legal to carry propane or butane >type stoves on planes. If you are driving across the border, they let them >in (or out), no problem. Only camping related item I've heard problems >with when driving is the bear spray stuff (pepper spray), which is like >mace and illegal in Canada if used on humans. Much of the bear spray is >actually made in Canada so I don't know what their problem is.... > >Hank Hays Even those of us who live here sometimes have a hard time figuring out how to play by Canadian rules ;) Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The prohibition of liquid fuel and related appliances on aircraft has been discussed to death on rbp. This is not simply Canadian foolishness, the US regulations are based on airline industry consensus standards. The bottom line is that the probability of fire or explosion from leaking fuel is greater than zero and is controllable by the airlines. They choose to control this risk by a blanket prohibition. While some airlines have variations on the theme, the easiest solution for airline management is to give the gate agents no discretionary authority. In addition, the fact is the captain of the aircraft is responsible for the safety of all of the passengers and has the right to refuse to transport anything they consider hazardous. For those adventurous souls who want to live on the edge, meet new people and, see new sights, you can, of course, sneak your stove on-board, get caught and spend up to 5 years in jail and pay up to $20,000 (US)in fines. Plan B, for the less adventurous, is to pay to ship the stove by other means, although the cost of shipment may exceed the value of the stove. Dana Dickson > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:38:41 +1300 > From: Eddie van den Hurk <vdh_at_xtra.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Canadian Customs > > Sisler, Clyde wrote: > > > > I read an article where a guy going through Canadian > Customs was told they > > were confiscating fossil fuel burning camp stoves. A > vaugue bell sounded in > > the back of my mind that I had heard something like this > before, Paddlewise, > > r.b.p. or somewhere. > > > Yes. Friends of mine returning from kayaking in Canada were told that > their M.S.R.cooker(near new and well cleaned) could not be > taken aboard > an aircraft because of possible explosions .New ,never used > ones are OK > Hartbroken ;=) they left their near new gadget behind. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Flying with stoves and fuel bottles is not just a Canadian rule thing. In the last few years many U.S. airlines have tightened up on the checking through and carrying onboad "backpacking" stoves and fuel bottles. I have heard many horror stories from customers (I own an outdoor store) who have had stoves and fuel bottles confiscated by airline personnel. In some instances, these were brand new! A couple of years ago, the American Hiking Society published a list of airlines and listed them as to their "friendliness" toward backpackers on this issue. Fliers beware or the stove police! John Browning *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/15/98 11:24:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, dana.dickson_at_unisys.com writes: << The bottom line is that the probability of fire or explosion from leaking fuel is greater than zero and is controllable by the airlines. >> Not exactly, Dana. There is a real, measurable probability of primary and/or secondary fire and explosion from a camping stove, whether or not it leaks. That probability is not controllable by the airlines --- and I'm not trying to "flame" you on the semantics here or trivialize what you're saying --- but the regulations are federal; the airlines have to comply. As the pilot in command on a Navy aircraft with "fire in flight" experience and as an aircraft accident investigator, I'm very happy with the rules as they stand. They're not arbitrary or anti-camper --- they're pro-passenger and flight crew survivability. And that's just fine with me. (Maybe this is another good endorsement for the Sierra Stove --- the little widget we discussed a while back that allows you to cook by burning pinecones and driftwood.) Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/15/1998 11:58:20 AM EST, dana.dickson_at_unisys.com writes: << Plan B, for the less adventurous, is to pay to ship the stove by other means, although the cost of shipment may exceed the value of the stove. Dana Dickson >> Which brings to mind plan C. Buy a stove at your destination and give it away to someone upon leaving. On another list people have commented on finding perfectly good stoves at campsites apparantly left by another accidentally. Maybe it was not accidentally after all. Someone just gave it to you and you will never know who that someone was. I am sure an imaginative trekker could find somebody who would appereciate your generosity. John LeBlanc *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>In a message dated 12/15/1998 11:58:20 AM EST, dana.dickson_at_unisys.com writes: > ><< Plan B, for the less adventurous, is to pay to ship the stove > by other means, although the cost of shipment may exceed the value of the > stove. > > Dana Dickson >> Anyone had any experience bringing Trangia stoves on airplanes? For those of you unfamiliar with them, they are basically a small metal pot that burns alcohol. The fuel canister looks like your typical MSR canister, but it is plastic. I am curious as it uses alcohol and has no moving parts weather this would be allowed. IMHO, this is a great stove for kayaking and a lot of us here in the midwest use them. They aren't as hot as a white gas/propane stove, but they are hassle free (almost no setup time), can't break and are completely silent. -Patrick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Maun pmaun_at_bitstream.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I don't think you will get too far trying to explain the differences and safety advantages of the Trangia stove with a disinterested airline official. " It looks like a backpacking stove, it is a backpacking stove, you can't take it on the airplane." After watching them stop a pilot from taking a Nintendo gun onto an airplane in DFW. Your odds are not good convincing them of anything. At 10:07 PM 12/15/98 -0600, Patrick Maun wrote: >>In a message dated 12/15/1998 11:58:20 AM EST, dana.dickson_at_unisys.com writes: >> >><< Plan B, for the less adventurous, is to pay to ship the stove >> by other means, although the cost of shipment may exceed the value of the >> stove. >> >> Dana Dickson >> > >Anyone had any experience bringing Trangia stoves on airplanes? For those >of you unfamiliar with them, they are basically a small metal pot that >burns alcohol. The fuel canister looks like your typical MSR canister, but >it is plastic. I am curious as it uses alcohol and has no moving parts >weather this would be allowed. IMHO, this is a great stove for kayaking and >a lot of us here in the midwest use them. They aren't as hot as a white >gas/propane stove, but they are hassle free (almost no setup time), can't >break and are completely silent. > >-Patrick > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >Patrick Maun >pmaun_at_bitstream.net > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote "From my experience in flying around the world, occasionally questionable items, is to put the gear in the hold! Use a samsonite suitcase with a cable and lock and your gear will rarely be searched on arrival as well. A beat up suitcase is cheaper then a stove. I would remove all fuel from the stove and bottles and allow any excess to evaporate before packing. " Wow! I can't believe anyone would advocate breaking safety regulations after the series of airliner crashes we have experienced lately. When I fly I hope the staff are knowledgeable about all safety precautions and enforce them to the letter. Paranoia? No, I just wouldn't trust the average person to be sufficiently knowledgeable about handling hazardous materials to make them adequately safe. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Anyone had any experience bringing Trangia stoves on airplanes? For those of you unfamiliar with them, they are basically a small metal pot that burns alcohol. The fuel canister looks like your typical MSR canister, but it is plastic. I am curious as it uses alcohol and has no moving parts ----------------- The article that made me ask the question in the first place was by an Australian with a Trangia. He said he had had the foresight to empty and througly clean the stove before going through Candian Customs (I had assumed he had been stopped flying into Vancouver but because of Paddlewise comments, now suspect it was on the way out). I believe he was allowed to take it on the plane because there were fume ordors. I don't know if this is an Australian stove or not but I believe MSR imports them and I know Campmor carries them. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> I read an article where a guy going through Canadian Customs > was told they > were confiscating fossil fuel burning camp stoves. A vaugue > bell sounded in > the back of my mind that I had heard something like this > before, Paddlewise, > r.b.p. or somewhere. Duh! That leaves solar and nuclear! I haven't seen any Plutonium stoves on the market but maybe Russian military surplus?! Cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
There are commercially available alcohol stoves. Alcohol is not a fossil fuel, but a synthetic fuel. There are also the BBQ stoves, that use charcoal brickets. Those brickets are made of partially burned wood, not fossil fuel. Maybe the trick is to convince the customs personnel that the fuel deposit of the stove is made to carry alcohol, not kerosene. I guess they are concerned with the explosive potential of most fossil fuels. But then, I do not understand why they would allow plutonium or uranium based stoves; unless they realize that such stoves are one-time-use type, and that the world would no longer exist after a single use. :-) - Julio > > > I read an article where a guy going through Canadian Customs > > was told they > > were confiscating fossil fuel burning camp stoves. A vaugue > > bell sounded in > > the back of my mind that I had heard something like this > > before, Paddlewise, > > r.b.p. or somewhere. > > Duh! That leaves solar and nuclear! I haven't seen any Plutonium stoves on > the market but maybe Russian military surplus?! > > Cya > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Maybe the trick is to convince the customs personnel that the >fuel deposit of the stove is made to carry alcohol, not kerosene. > The thing is, the Trangia doesn't even look like a stove -- no knobs or parts really. Just a little cup that fits into a windscreen. The fuel can really be carried in anything as the alcohol is just poured into the stove when needed. Maybe I should just carry the hooch in a whiskey bottle. Made in Sweden, Trangia has a site at http://www.trangia.se/ and yes, MSR does carry them in the US, but you rarely see the full stove sold anywhere MSR stoves are carried. I smell a conspiracy! The only place I know of that carries them in the midwest is Rutabaga in Madison. -Patrick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Maun pmaun_at_bitstream.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/16/98 2:37:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, BDenton_at_aquagulf.com writes about fuel alternatives: << Duh! That leaves solar and nuclear! I haven't seen any Plutonium stoves on the market but maybe Russian military surplus?! >> Before that, the Sierra Zip stove is a good alternative. Burns stick, pinecones, driftwood, charcoal, bits of leftover campfires, anything! No fuel to carry, just detritus to pick up for fuel. Boils a liter of water as fast as my old Svea will! Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Patrick Maun wrote: > > >Maybe the trick is to convince the customs personnel that the > >fuel deposit of the stove is made to carry alcohol, not kerosene. > > > > The thing is, the Trangia doesn't even look like a stove -- no knobs or > parts really. Just a little cup that fits into a windscreen. The fuel can > really be carried in anything as the alcohol is just poured into the stove > when needed. Maybe I should just carry the hooch in a whiskey bottle. > > Made in Sweden, Trangia has a site at http://www.trangia.se/ and yes, MSR > does carry them in the US, but you rarely see the full stove sold anywhere > MSR stoves are carried. I smell a conspiracy! The only place I know of that > carries them in the midwest is Rutabaga in Madison. Campmor sells Triangla through its catalog. So no conspiracy. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Campmor sells Triangla through its catalog. So no conspiracy. Nope Ralph, I'm sticking by my theory that there is a massive US Trangia cover-up being undertaken by MSR. True, you can find the Mini-28 through Campmor and others, but without the windscreen/cookset combination found in the T25 and T27, it just isn't the full Trangia I tell ya. It's like wanting to buy a Feathercraft and only being able to get that three-piece paddle. Or something like that. Is this getting off-topic yet? -Patrick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Maun pmaun_at_bitstream.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Patrick Maun wrote: I don't think it's off topic considering how most sea kayaking trips involve eating of some sort. In fact many of my trips have a primary focus of eating as much as possible, as well as washing everything down properly... but that last bit perhaps is a bit off topic... at least for this thread. So I ask you, what good is a Trangia stove? I remember my last trip, this funny foreign guy had one, and I just assumed that it was a funny foreign stove and not worth my attention since it didn't make an impressively big fireball when ignited followed by a pleasant low growling roar (aside: can you guess which stove I use?) But now that I have read Trangia's web page, which is remarkably uninformative on how it works and what the different options are, I am more interested in learning about them. I would really like to know more about this stove, and it seems that the Trangia may have a chance to replace my beloved whisperlite. Cheers, Kevin > >Campmor sells Triangla through its catalog. So no conspiracy. > > Nope Ralph, I'm sticking by my theory that there is a massive US Trangia > cover-up being undertaken by MSR. True, you can find the Mini-28 through > Campmor and others, but without the windscreen/cookset combination found in > the T25 and T27, it just isn't the full Trangia I tell ya. It's like > wanting to buy a Feathercraft and only being able to get that three-piece > paddle. > > Or something like that. > > Is this getting off-topic yet? > > -Patrick > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Patrick Maun > pmaun_at_bitstream.net > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/16/1998 5:26:01 PM EST, juliom_at_cisco.com writes: << Maybe the trick is to convince the customs personnel that the fuel deposit of the stove is made to carry alcohol, not kerosene. >> My experience with customs agents world wide is that they don't trick, joke, fool easily or comprimise without "detaining" you or your posessions or both. To enjoy your vacation and/or trip, simply comply or else! John LeBlanc *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/16/1998 7:37:28 PM EST, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << Campmor sells Triangla through its catalog. So no conspiracy. >> So does Piragis in Ely, Minn That way you can sneak 'em into Canada in your canoe! John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>So I ask you, what good is a Trangia stove? Here are some links: http://www.paddlers.com/accessories/acccamping.htm http://www.msrcorp.com/trangia.html -Patrick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Maun pmaun_at_bitstream.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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