Roberto - I am writing in response to an item you posted to Paddlewise on January 20, 1999 regarding waterspouts. Four of us from the New Jersey area were in Florida last week and did have an occasion with waterspouts. Two of us happened to have gone back in to shore to retrieve something and watched as 3 waterspouts dropped down. There was nothing we could do but stand on the shoreline and wonder how the other 2 people we were with were managing out on the water. Of course, there was sudden wind and a downpour that accompanied it. The other 2 people were in a folding kayak, a Klepper, with a sail rig. When they saw what was happening, they headed for shore as quick as they could. They are still down in Florida and will be returning sometime before the end of the month. Feel free to contact Jamy Levine [jlevine214_at_aol.com] directly for his personal experience. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hail at sea? i'm currious to read reports of hail at sea. weather folks tell me that it is not common because the vertical air profile is moist, whereas a dry layer is usually found in overland areas that receive hail. So, who as encountered hail at sea? what got my interest is a strange fresh water signature at 30 ft below the sea surface that has been attributed to rain. i doubt that rain can penetrate that deep because the fresh water is too light compared to the salty water. on the otherhand, hail is very cold and thus dense - so it might mix with the salt water and sink. who been hit by hail out there? cu bliven -----Original Message----- From: Robert C. Cline <rcline_at_onramp.net> To: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>; paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 12:28 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Waterspouts >>> >>> I thought you might know of someone there, through your GASP list, who >>> might be able to help us out. Any assistance you can lend would be >>> greatly appreciated. >>> > >I've been out in the Gulf... miles from shore and seen waterspouts, but in >a motorboat. They really presented no problem to the motor boat because >the motor boat could out-run the spout. Kayaks would not fair so well. >I've also flown around many a thunderstorm (I'm a pilot also). Isolated >Thunderstorms are easy to avoid if you have a motor.. the problem here is >staying away from the anvil...which spits out hail (hail is very bad for >airplanes). Lines of thunderstorms are another issue. Kayaks, motorboats >or airplanes are in trouble... if you can't go overthem, you might find >yourself in an unhealty situation. > >RC >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:47 AM 1/21/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hail at sea? > >i'm currious to read reports of hail at sea. weather folks tell me that it >is not common because the vertical air profile is moist, whereas a dry layer >is usually found in overland areas that receive hail. > >So, who as encountered hail at sea? > >what got my interest is a strange fresh water signature at 30 ft below the >sea surface that has been attributed to rain. i doubt that rain can >penetrate that deep because the fresh water is too light compared to the >salty water. on the otherhand, hail is very cold and thus dense - so it >might mix with the salt water and sink. > >who been hit by hail out there? > >cu >bliven I was paddling with two companions on a long weekend trip early last spring in the northern Gulf Islands (by the South East end of Vancouver Island), when we had the biggest variety of weather I've ever encountered in the shortest time. During the course of a two hour crossing we went from bright sunshine with light winds, to torrential rain with strong gusts, to thunder and lighting, about fifteen minutes of hail, and finally back to sunshine, with steady wind. Wild! Sorry, we neglected to lower sample bottles to thirty feet to check out the halocline :-) However, the Gulfs are an area of major tidal exchanges, so I'd be surprised if any "layer" of fresh water, if it ever existed, wasn't rapidly churned into oblivion anyway. Cheers, Philip T. N49°16' W123°08' "The opinions expressed in this posting are not necessarily those of my employer, or indeed, of any sentient being." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Ice Floats! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
From: Bob Denton > >Ice Floats! > Yes, ice floats on salt water. If the water is warmer than the ice, the ice melts producing cold water. Cold water and sea water can mix. The density of water increases as temperature decreases. Perhaps it is possible, with the right conditions for the mixing process to produce water that is slightly denser than the water around it. The slightly denser, cooler and less saline water would then sink. the density tables for sea water as a function of salt content and temperature led me to speculate that this process might occur. so i'm trolling to see if there are observations of hail over the ocean... because i can't find reports of it in journals, on the web, or through discussions with a couple of weather/oceanographer types...by communicating with folks with time at sea in lots of locations, perhaps i'll know more about hail at sea. a former American Meterological Society President discussed with me that he has seen a NOAA salinity time series from a sensor at 30 ft that has a fresh water feature. note that fresh water feature means that the salinity dropped from 34 parts per 1000 to 32/1000. Not a huge change, but noteable in the data record. he claims it is due to rain. i think it was more likely to have been a hail storm. what the hail, talk's cheap. and ice floats. bliven *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Here in Florida we often get a layer of fresh water on top of the salt water after heavy rains. I've seen conditions where there was a layer of fresh water sandwiched between salt. It was probably related to cold rain hitting warm seas with little wind and wave action. Also heavy dumping of the Everglades can cause a similar effect. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Typical Florida waterspouts dissipate when they can't support all the water they've sucked up. Tornadoes here are generally much weaker then in Tornado Alley. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Typically the waterspouts are not too powerful but you wouldn't want to be caught in one in your kayak! I've had friends in fishing boats get close with no ill effects, BUT they vary in strength. They are, tornados, after all. Usually they peter out when they suck up sufficient water to drown themselves. I am no expert on waterspouts... cya -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Phares Heindl Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 10:42 AM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: [Paddlewise] WaterSpouts Has anyone had any experience with encountering water spouts. I almost ran in to one last week. It was beautiful, perfectly formed funnel of the Southwest coast of Florida. I was close to shore, so when I saw it, I did an abrupt about face and sped to shore. I was wondering if anyone has any experience or advice as to evasive action to take in the event or a water spout. PS. I'm new to this list. I used to post to Wavelength years ago. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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