> Greg wrote > Perhaps with a lot of practice, it might work for you... for me, it's > not something I intend to incorporate into my bag of "save my tail" > techniques unless someone can share the secret in getting the spray > skirt back on before I require air. I guess I'd have to agree with this not being high on my list of options. I've been practicing the reenter/attach skirt/roll up in the pool lately (including last night) and while I have the maneuver down in a nice warm, clear pool (goggles and nose clip too) it seems like tossing in cold or dark water, waves and wind might greatly reduce the success rate. Although it is nice when you roll up all sealed up, the idea of managing to keep in close contact with your paddle and attaching your your skirt while you feel the "lack of air clock" ticking make this maneuver a little questionable. I tried a variation where I reentered, rolled up, and caught my wits and breath, then capsized and while upside down, but still in the cockpit I reattached the skirt. While this bought more time to attach the skirt I'm not so sure I'd want to intentionally go back over in conditions. It also seemed like the second time around I came up with a little more water under that nicely sealed skirt. jw -- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
JWare wrote: JW, this is exactly how you do it. John Winskill > > > Greg wrote > > > Perhaps with a lot of practice, it might work for you... for me, it's > > not something I intend to incorporate into my bag of "save my tail" > > techniques unless someone can share the secret in getting the spray > > skirt back on before I require air. > > I guess I'd have to agree with this not being high on my list of options. > I've been practicing the reenter/attach skirt/roll up in the pool lately > (including last night) and while I have the maneuver down in a nice warm, > clear pool (goggles and nose clip too) it seems like tossing in cold or dark > water, waves and wind might greatly reduce the success rate. > > Although it is nice when you roll up all sealed up, the idea of managing to > keep in close contact with your paddle and attaching your your skirt while > you feel the "lack of air clock" ticking make this maneuver a little > questionable. > > I tried a variation where I reentered, rolled up, and caught my wits and > breath, then capsized and while upside down, but still in the cockpit I > reattached the skirt. While this bought more time to attach the skirt I'm > not so sure I'd want to intentionally go back over in conditions. It also > seemed like the second time around I came up with a little more water under > that nicely sealed skirt. > > jw > -- > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
JWare wrote: > > Greg wrote > > > Perhaps with a lot of practice, it might work for you... for me, it's > > not something I intend to incorporate into my bag of "save my tail" > > techniques unless someone can share the secret in getting the spray > > skirt back on before I require air. > > I guess I'd have to agree with this not being high on my list of options. > I've been practicing the reenter/attach skirt/roll up in the pool lately > (including last night) and while I have the maneuver down in a nice warm, > clear pool (goggles and nose clip too) it seems like tossing in cold or dark > water, waves and wind might greatly reduce the success rate. > > Although it is nice when you roll up all sealed up, the idea of managing to > keep in close contact with your paddle and attaching your your skirt while > you feel the "lack of air clock" ticking make this maneuver a little > questionable. One thing I thought of but haven't tested yet is to tuck your head into the kayak while underwater so you can breath while attaching the back of the skirt. Then you only have to drop your head under water long enough to finish the skirt attachment. I like a tight skirt so it takes a while to attach (I don't want to imagine this with my WW skirt - it'd take forever underwater). You need to be fairly flexible to bend at the waist enough to breath in the hull - time to get to speed on your stretching exercises! A paddle leash (attaching the paddle to the boat, not your wrist) would allow you to use both hands for the skirt attachment. I'll try it in the pool tomorrow night and get back to the list with results. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Another concern with this maneuver -- at least for me -- is something I hadn't noticed with my kayak [Current Designs Solstice ST] until it was too late. The back side of the coaming on this boat is so close to the deck there's not enough clearance to slip the skirt's bungi knot into the space underneath. An absolutely horrendous design that makes getting the skirt on when you're upright and in calm water a royal pain ... Can't imagine what it would be like submerged, upside down and in rough water! But I guess I'll give it a shot some day!!! Hard to believe, though, that this condition would exist on a $2,400 "state-of-the-art" kayak [at least in my mind]. And had I noticed this obvious design flaw prior to buying, I'd be the proud owner of a Romany. So be it ... Anyone else having to tangle with such a problem? Jim Tynan Pike Road AL http://home.att.net/~kayakbound "It takes two to speak the truth: one to speak, and another to hear." ~ Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862) -----Original Message----- From: John C. Winskill <johncw_at_narrows.com> To: JWare <jware_at_virtualm.com> Cc: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Reenter - attach skirt and roll >> I guess I'd have to agree with this not being high on my list of options. >> I've been practicing the reenter/attach skirt/roll up in the pool lately >> (including last night) and while I have the maneuver down in a nice warm, >> clear pool (goggles and nose clip too) it seems like tossing in cold or dark >> water, waves and wind might greatly reduce the success rate. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
kayakbound (Jim Tynan) wrote: > > Another concern with this maneuver -- at least for me -- is something I > hadn't noticed with my kayak [Current Designs Solstice ST] until it was too > late. The back side of the coaming on this boat is so close to the deck > there's not enough clearance to slip the skirt's bungi knot into the space > underneath. An absolutely horrendous design ... Jim, you might want to shop around for a new spray skirt. Some spray skirts have smaller bungie knots than others, some spray skirts have a bungie knot in some location other than the rear, and some don't have a bungie knot at all. The spray skirt that I am now using for sea kayaking doesn't have a bungie knot in the rear. (It has a small knot near the front just off to the side.) And my whitewater skirt doesn't have any bungie knots. In short, if you look around I suspect that you can find a skirt that fits your Solstice. Dan Hagen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
kayakbound wrote: > > Another concern with this maneuver -- at least for me -- is something I > hadn't noticed with my kayak [Current Designs Solstice ST] until it was too > late. The back side of the coaming on this boat is so close to the deck > there's not enough clearance to slip the skirt's bungi knot into the space > underneath. [snip] > Anyone else having to tangle with such a problem? Yup. On two of my sprayskirts (I have three), I have cut the bungee to the correct length, allowing an overlap of about an inch. Those plastic wrap-n-tie things (cable wraps?) which are often found holding wires to some attachment point inside my computer come in sturdy versions, and I have secured the overlapped ends of the bungee with two cable wraps. This sounds like it would not be secure, and I resisted it until I had two years and many miles on a similar system below decks used to hold knee tubes in place. So far, I have two seasons on one bungee, and one season on the other one. Both are as strong as the day I assembled the closure. The third sprayskirt? It has one of those cheesy knots! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote (regarding spray skirt knots): > > ...I have cut the bungee to the correct length, allowing an > overlap of about an inch. ... I have secured the overlapped > ends of the bungee with two cable wraps. Great idea, Dave! I think that I will try this on my one remaining spray skirt with a rear knot, which I am about to sell to a guy who recently bought my Solstice. This customization should allow me to charge a premium price. :-) BTW, I think that your approach is actually more secure than a knot, which can come loose over time. Dan Hagen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 04:56 PM 2/24/99 -0800, Dave Kruger wrote: >kayakbound wrote: >> The back side of the coaming on this boat is so close to the deck >> there's not enough clearance to slip the skirt's bungi knot into the space >> underneath. [snip] > >> Anyone else having to tangle with such a problem? > >Yup. On two of my sprayskirts (I have three), I have cut the bungee to the >correct length, allowing an overlap of about an inch. Those plastic >wrap-n-tie things (cable wraps?) (cable-tie or zip-tie, a truly great invention! S.) >which are often found holding wires to >some attachment point inside my computer come in sturdy versions, and I >have secured the overlapped ends of the bungee with two cable wraps. Hi all! Another trick you might try is to use a length of 18 or 20 gauge stainless steel wire. Close wrap the wire 3 or 4 times around the overlapped bungee ends, twist the wire ends together a time or two like a garbage bag tie, and then use a pair of pliers to tighten the twist until the ss wire is compressing the bungees to about 2/3 of their original diameter. Trim the wire twist, bend it flat and wrap the joint with vinyl electrical tape (or use heat-shrink tubing if you have any). I've used this technique to connect bungees for tie-downs, boat and snowmachine covers, and various other projects with good results. ByeBye! Steve J. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
But it sometimes takes me a fair while to get my skirt on even when above water, particularly when the rubber rand is cold and I am wearing big gasketed gloves. More power to those who can put it on underwater. My hat (or skirt) goes off to you. Cheers, Richard *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
One thing I thought of but haven't tested yet is to tuck your head into the kayak while underwater so you can breath while attaching the back of the skirt. --------- Breathing tubes have been mentioned before. There's one at http://www.radicalgear.com/. I don't think I'd react very well if some water happened to come down the tube during the inhale process. I, of course, have nothing to do with these guys. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I'm interested in the "similar systembelow decks to hold knee tubes." Could you please elaborate? We've recently installe some bungie cords under the deck of my kayak to store some items (like the pump, for one) that I didn't want on the deck. Didn't go for knee tubes, partly because installing them sounded like a lot of work. But I'd be interested to know about your system. On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:56:16 -0800 Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> writes: >kayakbound wrote: >> >> Another concern with this maneuver -- at least for me -- is >something I >> hadn't noticed with my kayak [Current Designs Solstice ST] until it >was too >> late. The back side of the coaming on this boat is so close to the >deck >> there's not enough clearance to slip the skirt's bungi knot into the >space >> underneath. [snip] > >> Anyone else having to tangle with such a problem? > >Yup. On two of my sprayskirts (I have three), I have cut the bungee >to the >correct length, allowing an overlap of about an inch. Those plastic >wrap-n-tie things (cable wraps?) which are often found holding wires >to >some attachment point inside my computer come in sturdy versions, and >I >have secured the overlapped ends of the bungee with two cable wraps. > >This sounds like it would not be secure, and I resisted it until I had >two >years and many miles on a similar system below decks used to hold knee >tubes in place. So far, I have two seasons on one bungee, and one >season >on the other one. Both are as strong as the day I assembled the >closure. > >The third sprayskirt? It has one of those cheesy knots! > >-- >Dave Kruger >Astoria, OR > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Richard wrote; >But it sometimes takes me a fair while to get my skirt on even when above >water, particularly when the rubber rand is cold and I am wearing big >gasketed gloves. More power to those who can put it on underwater. My hat >(or skirt) goes off to you. Put your skirt back on. This is a family mailing list. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I just realized he meant his spray skirt. At first, it reminded me of a movie I saw once when I was in the army. Larry Mills Department of Redundancy Department -----Original Message----- From: John Winters [SMTP:735769_at_ican.net] Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 11:24 AM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Reenter - attach skirt and roll Richard wrote; >But it sometimes takes me a fair while to get my skirt on even when above >water, particularly when the rubber rand is cold and I am wearing big >gasketed gloves. More power to those who can put it on underwater. My hat >(or skirt) goes off to you. Put your skirt back on. This is a family mailing list. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Many skirts have NO bungee knot. Buy one that is designed for the specific size cockpit. I use Palm skirts from the UK. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
<Jim Tynan wrote about problems getting his skirt bunji knot under the combing of his boat. Dave Kruger offered good advice on customizing the cord.> I like to keep the bunji cord on my skirts long enough to allow adjustment when using the skirt with other boats or with other paddlers. This is the main reason for having this type of skirt design. To help eliminate the problem of the knot, try undoing the knot, then slipping the ends of the cord through a short piece of vinyl or rubber tubing, about 2 inches long and just large enough in diameter to be stretched into a flattened oval by the cord. Tie a new knot in the cords at the other <stern> end of the tubing. The tubing should easily slip under your combing and hold the knot beyond the edge of the flange. Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
HTERVORT_at_aol.com wrote: > I like to keep the bunji cord on my skirts long enough to allow adjustment > when using the skirt with other boats or with other paddlers. This is the > main reason for having this type of skirt design. > > To help eliminate the problem of the knot, try undoing the knot, then slipping > the ends of the cord through a short piece of vinyl or rubber tubing, about 2 > inches long and just large enough in diameter to be stretched into a flattened > oval by the cord. Tie a new knot in the cords at the other <stern> end of the > tubing. The tubing should easily slip under your combing and hold the knot > beyond the edge of the flange. Wow. This is inspired, Harold -- what sort of tubing do you use? POlyethylene -- what we used to call Tygon? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave, Inspired, perhaps. But I can't take credit for it. Polyethylene (Tygon) in a fairly thick wall works better than anything else I've found. But anything that will assume the shape of the parallel cords and also stay sufficiently rigid withour breaking would work OK. Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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