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From: Jack Martin <jcmartin43_at_radix.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:45:36 -0500
It's too cold, gray and generally unpleasant to paddle this 
afternoon, and a thought occurred to me.  What if I'd set my 
beloved Pintail down at one of my customary put-ins and some 
very rich gent driving a new Ford Exhibitionist --- or whatever that 
new, <big> one is --- was out testing his integral GPS and autopilot 
and drove over my boat, splintering it into fragments, pulverizing my 
Canadian Ballast Rocks (tm), and leaving me with a pile of toxic 
waste and gray dust.  And he felt really badly about it and gave me 
the replacement cost of my Pintail and fixed gear on the spot.  
Would I buy another Pintail, or would I buy something else.  
(Taking the money and running was not an option, no matter how 
big the fleet is getting.)  I'm still thinking.

Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would 
<you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you 
the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or 
something else.  And why?

Jack Martin
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From: R. Walker <rww_at_mailbox.neosoft.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:46:07 -0600
> Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would 
> <you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you 
> the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or 
> something else.  And why?

I'd probably put another $1800 of my own money with it and go with 
the Falcon 18.

Reasons:
1. I can afford it better now.
2. I have a way to store an 18' boat now.
3. I've got enough experience to deal with something that fast and 
tippy.
4. I have a use for something that fast and tippy.

That said I'd be really, really annoyed.  I already know how I intend 
my Edisto to die, if death is in its near future; and being run over by 
someone's canyonnarro isn't it.  It would also ruin the summer trip I 
have planned, since the Falcon 18 wouldn't likely survive the 
experience. [a river *ASCENT* of the Devils River from Lake 
Amistad; where I need a flat bottom, and dragability over hundreds 
of yards of rock.]   

What I'd really like to do is grow old owning the Edisto, and add the 
Falcon for times where it is the more appropriate vehicle...




Richard Walker
Houston, TX
http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html
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From: Robert Woodard <woodardr_at_tidalwave.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:48:57 -0500
> Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would
> <you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you
> the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or
> something else.  And why?

I noticed Jack, you somehow managed to not answer the question yourself. No
fair 8^)


For me, I would want another Guillemot. Having spent 2 months building it,
and designing a "one of a kind" wooden inlay of 2 Orca whales on the front
hatch (a precious work of art), the replacement price tag would not be
cheap. <g>

But the reason I would want another one is probably less complex than the
reasons others will give: I simply don't know any better. The Guillemot is a
great boat to paddle, but my experience runs shallow. I have never paddled
another kayak and have nothing else to compare it against. I have said in
the past that if I knew then what I know now, I would not have built the
Guillemot, but as I become more experienced, and can take advantage of it's
playful features, I like it more and more. I doubt it will be my last boat,
but it may be one of my favorites because it is my first.

On the other hand, I'm a very shy person in "real life" and do find it
uncomfortable with all the attention the Guillemot brings. It is an
absolutely beautiful boat, and I've spent 30 minutes loading it on the truck
in the rain while person after person stopped to ask me about it. There are
times I wish the wood was spray painted blue ;^)

Woody

http://www.tidalwave.net/~woodardr/kayakndx.html



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From: Jack Martin <jcmartin43_at_radix.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:10:12 -0500
From:           	"Robert Woodard" <woodardr_at_tidalwave.net>
To:             	<paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Subject:        	RE: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date sent:      	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:48:57 -0500

Woody included the statement ---
> 
> I noticed Jack, you somehow managed to not answer the question yourself. No
> fair 8^)
> 

Yeah, Woody, but the rule is if you think up a good thread, you 
don't have to respond.  Interestingly, I have a situation a little bit 
like yours.  I'm really falling in love with this boat-building 
experience --- mine with a CLC North Bay --- and I really don't know 
how I'm going to feel about the Pintail once the North Bay is 
completed --- hopefully but not assuredly within this century.  Were 
this new love not in my life, however, as much as I love the Pintail, I 
think I'd probably opt for the Nordkapp Jubilee --- but not before test 
driving the new Pintail with the larger cockpit.  That 16" by 20" 
"ocean cockpit" on the P'tail is getting kinda tight, and the ol' 
knees aren't that keen on hyperextension any more.  Gimme a 
month or two, Woody, and I'll answer my own question for you.

Jack Martin
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From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:05:21
>
>Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would 
><you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you 
>the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or 
>something else.  And why?

Probably not, but I'd be close. I currently paddle an Old Town
Heron, and I've been eyeing an Old Town Millineum 174 real hard.
This would simplify the question of "what do I do with a boat
that is still perfectly adequate, even though I've got the lust
for a new boat?"

-- Wes

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From: <HTERVORT_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:57:47 EST
Ouch!  Hard question, Jack.  Actually, I''ve played this with others, except I
ask "If you could only own one boat for the rest of your life, what would it
be?"  Since you were a gentleman and let us off the hook a bit, I'll bite--

I might make you an offer on your Pintail when you get your CLC finished.  I
frequently use one for classes and short trips and love it.  But my short
list, which I've boiled down from hundreds I've tried, would also include
(this week only):  the Sparrow Hawk, Shenai/skeg, Slipstream, Skerray MX,
Mariner XL, a little-guy version of the Discover (without rudder so I could
install a skeg), composite Sea Lion or Sea Lion-S (worsicias), Extreme
(worsicias), a Betsy Bay, one of the Pygmy kits (spending the saved bucks on
less-healthy pursuits), or I MIGHT replace my Sealution with skeg and would
certainly like to replace my Khatsalano if it was the unfortunate lump-o-bits.

But, you'd better check with me again in a couple months.  Love is fickle.  

Harold
So. Cal., so many good boats, so little cash.
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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:21:54 -0800
Jack Martin wrote:

> Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would
> <you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you
> the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or
> something else.  And why?

I might replace my Wind Dancer with a clone, because I like its cargo
capacity and its stability.  OTOH, it is slow -- Hagen even congratulated
me one time for finding a boat which is *slower* than a Wind dancer!

If not a Wind Dancer, I might go with one of the HV GT Solstice versions
from Current Designs -- almost as much volume, but faster.

'Course, if we are talking day boats, and not multi-day trippers, then my
attention drifts to sleeker, more seductive hulls ... maybe a Falcon 18.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: K. Whilden <kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:05:12 -0800 (PST)
Hrmm,

Frst off, I would be crushed if I lost my Pygmy Arctic Tern. That's the
problem with building a kit boat. The time spent is hard to replace.
However if I had the time, I would undoubtedly buy and build the Tern
again. I really like this boat. If I had to go back to all-glass
construction, I would consider the Mariner II, and the P&H Capella.

CHeers,
Kevin
	 ___________________                                                            
	/   Kevin Whilden   \
       |Dept. of Geosciences \___
       |University of Washington \
       |kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu| 
        \________________________/                       


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From: Reeves, Debbie (Debbie) <"Reeves,>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:21:44 -0500
No, I would not [rebuy] my current boat, a CD Solstice GTS.  Don't get me
wrong, it's a great boat but it is not the ultimate match for me.  I
definately want a low volumne boat with hard chines and a skeg.  Thus, I
have decided to build  the Outer Island, a cedar strip design.  Oh boy!
Debbie Reeves
Sandy Hook, NJ

> ----------
> Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would 
> <you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you 
> the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or 
> something else.  And why?
> 
> Jack Martin
> 
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From: <KiAyker_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:28:57 EST
 > Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would
 > <you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you
 > the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or
 > something else.  And why? <

   I've had an opportunity to test drive a large number of the various boats
on the market today. So far I'm still very happy with my beat up, well worn
Necky Arluk II. I've had that boat for more then ten years now and either it's
a great boat for me, or I've just become so accustomed to it. Nevertheless, if
I HAD to replace it I think I might go with the Arluk I now (or whatever
today's equivalent is). I'd like a boat which challenges me a bit more.

Scott
So.Cal.
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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:25:25 -0800
jack martin wrote:
> 
>  > Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would
>  > <you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you
>  > the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or
>  > something else.  And why? <

If I had a chance to get another boat (other than my Nautiraid Raid 1,
Feathercraft K-Light, Klepper double), I would probably want to do
something that can't be done, i.e. go into the past some.

If I had my time machine, I would like to go back to 1926 and get an
Aijuk Falboot Gronland (Greenlander), which is the folding kayak that
Edi Pawlata bought and learned to roll in, reintroducing the Eskimo roll
to the Western world in 1927 (still bears his name).  The kayak had an
18 inch beam and was 16 feet long with quite an upswept bow.  Was very
light( it had lightening holes in the bow and stern wooden frame
pieces), a dink-sized, slightly ovalized cockpit, and it dipped a bit in
the frame at the stern to create, in effect, a skeg (the Khatsalano from
Feathercraft does something similar).  It is pictured in Der
Handernkahn, Geschichte des Faltbootes (Ragboats, the History of Folding
Kayaks) and I believe it is the one at the Deutsches Museum in Munich on
the wall above Dr. Lindemann's trans-Atlantic double Klepper.  This
greenland boat would be tippy as hell but would be a real incentive to
do something about my lack of a roll.

But another choice, which would not require a time machine, is to get my
hands on the Nautiraid Greenlander either circa 1988 or circa 1992.  The
1980s one was the same dimensions as Pawlata's folding kayak and also
quite tippy, so much so that they couldn't sell it and then had to come
out with the early 1990s one.  It had a 23 inch beam similar to what we
have in the Khatsalano.  That Nautiraid was more conventional looking
with no upswept bow.  The Nautiraid Greenlander is out again now but
with a 27 inch beam and a largish cockpit; it is not a greenlander like
Pawlata's boat or the earlier Nautiraid versions.

ralph diaz
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: Sisler, Clyde <Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:10:26 -0500
great boat to paddle, but my experience runs shallow. I have never paddled
another kayak and have nothing else to compare it against. I have said in

------------

Me too.  I'm not a technophile and didn't want to get caught up in volume,
chines, rockers, etc or I'd still be trying to make a decision.  I had heard
good things about the Looksha IV, paddled a plastic Looksha during my
courses so bought a FG one immediately after the classes.  I haven't paddled
anything else because I don't want lustful thoughts to begin festering. The
Sealoution is the only the only boat that I've found visually tempting.

I had to grow into the Looksha (ability wise, not physically) because of the
initial stability and it took a week or so before my cheek muscles relaxed.
I am not dis-satisfied with the Looksha IV so I guess I'd do it over again.
Well, maybe I'd test drive the Sealoution just to see how it felt.


http://www.tidalwave.net/~woodardr/kayakndx.html


------------
Ah, how the mechanically challenged envy you.  I've only seen a couple of
wooden boats but have stopped to admire each of them.  Canoes too.
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From: Bill Leonhardt <WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:14:36 -0500
At 07:21 AM 3/11/99 -0500, you wrote:
>No, I would not [rebuy] my current boat, a CD Solstice GTS.  Don't get me
>wrong, it's a great boat but it is not the ultimate match for me.  I
>definately want a low volumne boat with hard chines and a skeg.  Thus, I
>have decided to build  the Outer Island, a cedar strip design.  Oh boy!
>Debbie Reeves
>Sandy Hook, NJ
>
>> ----------
>> Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would 
>> <you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you 
>> the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or 
>> something else.  And why?
>> 
>> Jack Martin
>> 

Jack, et al,

I paddle a Current designs Solstice GT.  If it went away, I'd probably buy
a Solstice GTS (perhaps from Debbie after she builds the Outer Island).  I
think I'm a little better at handling the narrower boat now, and I really
like all the interior of the Solstice as well as the performance for me.  

There may be other, better boats for me but I'm not sure I'd have the
patience to seek one out.

Now, if I could keep my current boat and still get a pile of money and the
time to search for a "better" boat, ah then the search could really be fun.
 (Dream on, Leonhardt!!!)

Regards,

Bill
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From: Joe Pylka <pylka_at_castle.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:09:07 -0500
Aw c'mon now!  Ever see a golfer with just ONE club in his bag?

-----Original Message-----


>Ouch!  Hard question, Jack.  Actually, I''ve played this with others,
except I
>ask "If you could only own one boat for the rest of your life, what would
it
>be?"

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From: Steve Jernigan <jernigan_at_chester.uccs.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:30:52 -0700
At 04:45 PM 3/10/99 -0500, Jack Martin wrote:
>Which leads me to ask you, fellow PaddleWisers, what would 
><you> do if someone trashed your boat by accident and gave you 
>the replacement cost?  Would you buy what you've got now or 
>something else.  And why?

I have grown quite fond of the (used) Wenonah C1W that I bought to replace
the Wenonah Prism that M'lady (how to say this nicely) adopted. I would
(and may yet) order another C1W. I would stay with the ultra-light kevlar
lay-up, but opt for all wood trim, just 'cause it's so pretty.
I like the boat because it is extremely light at 33lb, and has tremendous
capacity. It is noticeably faster than the Prism, and actually seems to
gain stability as the water gets rougher. The down side is that the high
sides catch a bit more wind than the Prism, and that if I ever let the Ms.
paddle it I'll be back in the Prism PDQ ;-)
Good idea for a thread, Jack!
ByeBye! S.
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From: Greg Hollingsworth <Gregh_at_abs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:33:00 -0500
I don't think that it's too cold to paddle, not in Maryland anyway...  I
took a dip last weekend and the water felt just fine (in my drysuit).

My personal choice is the Nordkapp Jubilee that I purchased back in
September.  I tried out a lot of boats prior to getting the Nordkapp,
another I liked was the Arctic Hawk.  I also liked the Pintail, but at
185 lbs, I'm too large for the Pintail.  If I were not so large, I
probably would have purchased the Pintail.

Since I've purchased the Nordkapp, I've found a few things that I don't
like about it.  The seat is uncomfortable, feels like a bicycle seat -
it's going to get ripped out soon.  I don't like the skeg adjustment
mechanism, mine has the cleated line, not the slider.  I don't like
having to reach back to uncleat the line and it is difficult to set
properly.  I've been shown solutions that I intend to implement soon.  
Everything else about the boat is great!!

By the way, the Ford Expedition is merely a Ford F150 with a hard top on
the back and extra seats within.  The one that I own does not have the
GPS auto pilot option - and I'd feel awful too if I ran over your
wonderful Pintail.  While it may seem like a pig, for my family it's a
very useful vehicle.  We use ours to haul horse trailers (not jetskis)
and lots of kids (it'll hold 7 plus a driver).  And yes, it's not big
<enough> to haul more than 2 horses, some people really need to do this.
It's also not a very good vehicle for hauling kayaks - too darn tall. 
The new Ford Excursion is the real big pig and is (I believe) intended
to rival the Chevy Suburban, a very popular pulling vehicle for the
horse crowd.  

	Greg
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From: Bob Denton <BDenton_at_aquagulf.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:49:27 -0500
I cut the seat out within a day of getting the new boat. It lightens it up
and is much more comfortable to use foam.  I purchased the pre-made foam
seat with the side pads (+-$30) and the perception hip pads (actually I
traced my original pair and copied them) 

I attach the backband (a replacement) using scuba belt webbing and a SS bolt
, nut and fender washer. Then I glued in the hip pads in place and the seat
, with it's own hip pads removed, fits perfectly under the hip pads. It can
slide in and out for trimming and is removed easily for drying and storage.

The backband is adjusted using a scuba belt buckle, light weight, strong and
rustproof.

cya
>>>
Since I've purchased the Nordkapp, I've found a few things that I don't
like about it.  The seat is uncomfortable, feels like a bicycle seat -
it's going to get ripped out soon.  I don't like the skeg adjustment
mechanism, mine has the cleated line, not the slider.  I don't like
having to reach back to uncleat the line and it is difficult to set
properly.  I've been shown solutions that I intend to implement soon.  
Everything else about the boat is great!!


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From: inetex <dlloyd_at_inetex.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Too cold to paddle ...
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:47:11 -0800
On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:33:00 -0500
Greg Hollingsworth wrote:

My personal choice is the Nordkapp Jubilee that I purchased back in
September.<snip> Since I've purchased the Nordkapp, I've found a few things
that I don't like about it.  The seat is uncomfortable, feels like a
bicycle seat -
it's going to get ripped out soon.<snip>  

...........

Greg, et al:

Our Association had Frank Goodman of Valley Canoe here in Victoria for a
couple of Symposiums before the Port townsend one got going in the early
Eighties (those were the days when we had big wars over narrow Nordkapps vs
klutsy Kleppers, with John Dowd providing lots of ammunition, ahhhh, the
good old days!). A number of people complained to Frank about his seat, he
said it was molded specifically to fit his butt. Guess he made an ass out
of all of us (or is that he made an ass out of himself?).

Doug lloyd
Victoria BC
Canada
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