Does anyone out there have any experience paddling or building a skin baidarka. I am going to Wooden Boat School this summer and building one of Bruce Lemon's baidarkas. Just wondering what I am getting myself into. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Does anyone out there have any experience paddling or building a skin >baidarka. I am going to Wooden Boat School this summer and building one >of Bruce Lemon's baidarkas. Just wondering what I am getting myself >into. I built a Baidarka in 1997 in Corey Freedman's shop (Anacortes, Washington State). It's fast, maneuverable, durable, and light at only 33 lbs. The best thing about building a skin frame Baidarka is that it is so easy to make a boat that is individualized for you. You decide on the length, width, rocker, hull shape and depth. Before I built mine I paddle about eight different Baidarkas that Corey had. Each one was very different. One was 19 feet long, very narrow, very light, with a round hull shape. It was the fastest kayak I've ever paddled. It was interesting to see how each boat was so different even though each one was a Baidarka design. There are a few guys doing Baidarka workshops using station forms. I would not recommend using this method. All you are doing is making an exact copy of someone else's boat. This takes a lot away from the experience and you may not end up with a boat that fits your needs. I wanted a low volume kayak for day trips and I wanted a maneuverable boat to use for the tidal rapids course that I teach in Deception Pass. I made my boat 16.5 feet long, 20.75 inches wide with 4 inches of rocker. It turned out perfect for my needs. It's easy to roll (I can do hand rolls with it). It is very well behaved in light to moderate winds. I've been out in 25 knot winds with some gusts up around 40 knots and did fine. One of the nicest things about this boat is how it is balanced perfectly for our typical 8 to 15 knot breezes. With the Baidarka design you can vary the waterline length over a range of about 12 inches just by leaning forward or backwards a few inches. Lean forward just a few inches and the bow waterline moves forward about 6 inches as the bow lowers from the weight shift. The first time I paddled my Baidarka I was paddling up wind at different angles in a 10 knot breeze checking to see if there was any weathercocking. I was very pleased to discover that there was no weathercocking at all. Then I noticed if I leaned forward a little (paddling up wind at an angle to the wind) the boat would slowly turn directly into the wind (weathercock). Then if I leaned back a little I could easily turn from up wind with no weathercocking to fight against. The Aleutians, through many generations and thousands of years of kayak building have evolved a brilliant design. Do you know about the Skin Boat Gathering on April 24 and 25 at Bowman Bay, Washington State? If not I can send you some information. Where is the Wooden Boat Shop you are planning on attending? Rex *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Donald Schoengold wrote: > Does anyone out there have any experience paddling or building a skin > baidarka. I am going to Wooden Boat School this summer and building one > of Bruce Lemon's baidarkas. Just wondering what I am getting myself > into. Yup. I built an aluminum framed George Dyson design. You're getting yourself into 100+ hours of work (depending on what and how much Bruce does for you). It doesn't take much woodworking skill, or sewing skill to build one. It just takes time and patience. Doing the lashing and sewing can be very relaxing, sort of like a long run or paddle. You'll end up with a very nice boat. When you do build it be be sure you take lots of pictures of the frame. The frames are gorgeous. You are welcome to discuss them here, there's also a separate skin/frame mailing list with some fairly experienced builders. To subscribe to, or unsubscribe from, the baidarka mailing list simply send an email to majordomo_at_lists.intelenet.net with the following text in the body of the message: subscribe baidarka or unsubscribe baidarka kirk (the admin for the baidarka mailing list) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Donald- Last July before we started our 10 Maine trip out in the Deer Island area, we stopped at the WBS (2 of us had built wooden boats so there was no way we could drive by it without stopping). To our good fortune, the baidarka class had completed their boats and were scheduled to come and pick them up by noon on that day. Wow, what a sight. There must have been at least 15 boats all finished. These particular boats were not particularly light because of all the wooden ribs, kelson, chines, etc. A lot of wood in there. But boy, are they beautiful. Hopefully, someone else on the list can they you how they paddle. Good luck in the project. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ > ---------- > From: Donald Schoengold[SMTP:donaldsc_at_vegas.infi.net] > Reply To: donaldsc_at_vegas.infi.net > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 11:23 PM > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] Baidarka > > Does anyone out there have any experience paddling or building a skin > baidarka. I am going to Wooden Boat School this summer and building one > of Bruce Lemon's baidarkas. Just wondering what I am getting myself > into. > > ************************************************************************** > * > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > ************************************************************************** > * > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Reeves, Debbie (Debbie) wrote: > To our good fortune, the baidarka > class had completed their boats and were scheduled to come and pick them up > by noon on that day. Wow, what a sight. There must have been at least 15 > boats all finished. These particular boats were not particularly light > because of all the wooden ribs, kelson, chines, etc. A lot of wood in > there. It all depends on how they are built. My aluminum and nylon baidarka (5.7 meters, roughly 18'6") came out at 34 pounds. A friend's greenland boats come out at 24 pounds (it's a 17 footer) and 28 pounds for his baidarka interpretation. The translucent skins are definitely cool looking on a sunny day. Varnish with aliphatic urethane yield the clearest coating combination that I've seen. A coating combination that is also quite rugged. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/11/99 8:48:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, donaldsc_at_vegas.infi.net writes: << Does anyone out there have any experience paddling or building a skin baidarka. I am going to Wooden Boat School this summer and building one of Bruce Lemon's baidarkas. Just wondering what I am getting myself into. >> Bruce was out this way a few years back and I was lucky enough to paddle one of his singles and the double he and his dog frequently used. They were wonderful craft -- very light, fast and stiff tracking. Also, they flexed sinuously with the waves and strokes, just like my Khats and other modern (usually folding) skin boats. One of the great features of Bruce's boats is the finish he uses. It's a 2-part polyurethane on heavy nylon, covered with marine varnish. It is very tough, but also very pretty. Being translucent with a light tan color, it has a rather organic look, resembling some hides I've seen. I think you'll have a very positive experience and come away with a great craft. Bruce is a very nice person and I would gladly take one of his courses. Harold So. Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
HTERVORT_at_aol.com wrote: > One of the great features of Bruce's boats is > the finish he uses. It's a 2-part polyurethane on heavy nylon, covered with > marine varnish. It is very tough, but also very pretty. Being translucent > with a light tan color, it has a rather organic look, resembling some hides > I've seen. I was asking some small-aircraft-pilot friends of mine about materials to use for making a skin on frame kayak (one of them is making three stitch&glue boats) and they suggested heavy weight Ceconite (dacron). Would this be good? They also said to stay away from polyurethanes, especially the two part kinds. They suggested the polydope stuff would be fine. Any opinions - or should I try the baidarka list? Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Michael Daly wrote: > I was asking some small-aircraft-pilot friends of mine about materials to use > for making a skin on frame kayak (one of them is making three stitch&glue > boats) and they suggested heavy weight Ceconite (dacron). Would this be > good? I've seen a few boats with Ceconite skins, buying dacron is cheaper since Ceconite is a trade name and also needs to meet aeronautical specs. I also know of one builder who had a bad experience with Ceconite. He normally builds with canvas and coats with enamel porch paint. He built a boat with ceconite and porch paint. On the day he first launched it he paddled in some skim ice. The ice cut through the paint (something that didn't happen with canvas) and his boat started to leak badly. He promptly got to shore, then went home and tore the ceconite skin off. If you want bombproof George Dyson sells a 26 ounce double woven nylon that should survive just about anything... Polyester fabric, nylon fabric, canvas are other fabric choices. One person was planning to try a hemp fabric, I haven't heard how the hemp fabric is working out. > They also said to stay away from polyurethanes, especially the two part kinds. > They suggested the polydope stuff would be fine. Any opinions? Opinions on the Internet? 2 part polys work well, zar satin varnish with aliphatic urethane comes out clearer than 2 part poly (less of a tan or gold tone, but aliphatic urethane is tremendously toxic). If you aren't going for translucent hypallon, or enamel porch paint work well, others use regular latex house paint. A few years ago I saw a boat that had epoxy resin over fabric, the resin wasn't flexible enough, it had numerous spiderweb cracks and leaked badly. A non-sewing option for doing a boat is hypallon coated polyester fabric, like what is used for awnings. Reportedly this is "welded" together with solvents instead of sewn on and then coated. I've yet to see one of these in person. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/12/99 7:01:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mikedaly_at_interlog.com writes: << I was asking some small-aircraft-pilot friends of mine about materials to use for making a skin on frame kayak (one of them is making three stitch&glue boats) and they suggested heavy weight Ceconite (dacron). Would this be good? They also said to stay away from polyurethanes, especially the two part kinds. They suggested the polydope stuff would be fine. Any opinions - or should I try the baidarka list? >> I've told you all I know on the subject, except that the polys are reputed to be veeeery tough and durable. I think people avoid them because they are not real easy to use and probably fairly nasty on the toxicity side. I'm sure others here and on the Baidarka site can help far more than I. Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>I've told you all I know on the subject, except that the polys are reputed to >be veeeery tough and durable. True I think people avoid them because they are not >real easy to use and probably fairly nasty on the toxicity side. False The two-part polyurethane that we used was easy and odorless. You can buy it from Corey Freedman at Spirit Line Kayaks and I believe he has an instructional video to show you how it's done and teach you all the little tricks. Here is the contact information. Spirit Line Kayaks www.skinboats.com E-MAIL: umiak_at_anacortes.net VOICE MAIL: (360)299-0804 Rex *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>The two-part polyurethane that we used was easy and odorless. You can buy >it from Corey Freedman at Spirit Line Kayaks and I believe he has an >instructional video to show you how it's done and teach you all the little >tricks. Here is the contact information. >snip< Actually all two-part urethanes and most one-part urethanes contain isocyanates which are very bad for you. The lack of odor of some of these urethanes is because of the high solids content - i e the more solids the less solvent content (VOC). Naturally, low VOC coatings are a big plus but to limit your exposure you should try not to get any on your skin and have lots of ventilation and/or a respirator. I believe the stuff Corey uses is nearly 100% solids, hence the lack of fumes. Very durable stuff too. Jeff Woodall Portland, OR o / < / [========'/-'===================> ~~~~~`~~~~~~~~`^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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