Tim Mattson wrote: >Oregon is >a paddler's paradise and we have huge numbers of kayakers, but only a tiny >fraction of them paddle along the coast. I guess we have so many great >rivers and estuaries in Oregon, that you can paddle a lifetime without once >heading out to sea. God, Tim, don't tell them that! It's the icky, nasty weather (wind, rain, fog) here that generates all those heavy seas that keep the sea kayakers on fresh and brackish water. When you guys all come to Oregon, bring money and spend it, but don't stay <grin>. In actuality, I think that tongue in cheek observation is very real. Oregon's Coast can be nasty and few paddlers are up to it. Hank Hays Near Portland, OR (which is not on the coast) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Those of you that are familiar with USENET's rec.boat.paddle know that it tends to be largely whitewater paddler posts, with flatwater, canoe, and other type posts often drowned out by all the whitewater noise. For the last two months, several people who are more or less regulars on r.b.p., including myself, have been working on a Request For Discussion (RFD) to create two new newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle.whitewater and rec.boats.paddle.touring, which would be in addition to the existing group. Again, those of you familiar with rec.boat.paddle know that any suggestion to split or reorganize the group is controversial, and there has been controversy since the announcement of the new RFD was made Monday. Generally, what will happen is that this proposal will be discussed for about three weeks, then there will likely be a Call For Votes (CFV) on the proposal. It takes a pretty good vote to pass these proposals, and, when the time comes, Paddlewise users will be eligible to vote on these new newsgroups. Those of us that put the proposal together welcome examination, discussion and support of the proposal by Paddlewisers. Formal discussion of the proposal is supposed to take place in the USENET group "news.groups", but inevitably there's a lot of discussion on RBP itself, if you would like to look in on it. I did not post a copy of the RFD here, for the sake of space (it's rather lengthy), but will either e-mail or post if requested. I'm also available to reply to questions, if needed. There are a couple other Paddlewisers involved in the RFD proposal group, too. -- Wes Boyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On May 12, 17:54, Wes Boyd wrote: } Subject: [Paddlewise] New USENET rec.boat.paddle subgroups proposed > > Those of you that are familiar with USENET's rec.boat.paddle know that it > tends to be largely whitewater paddler posts, with flatwater, canoe, and > other type posts often drowned out by all the whitewater noise. > > For the last two months, several people who are more or less regulars on > r.b.p., including myself, have been working on a Request For Discussion > (RFD) to create two new newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle.whitewater and > rec.boats.paddle.touring, which would be in addition to the existing group. Yi! Not this again! Well, actually I've always felt that it was just a matter of time. I tried to create rec.boats.paddle.seakayak back in about 1995, but the time wasn't right for a split then. Most of the actual contributors to the newsgroup, including sea kayakers, were against the split then, and the supporters were mostly lurkers to whom it "sounded like a good idea". I gave up on the idea when I realized this. Good luck! I haven't read r.b.p in ages now, so I no longer have any opinion on this particular split. -- Bob Myers InteleNet Communications, Inc. Email: bob_at_InteleNet.net 18101 Von Karman Avenue, Suite 550 Phone: 949-851-8250 x227 Irvine, CA 92612 Fax: 949-851-1088 http://www.intelenet.net/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
From: bob_at_intelenet.net (Bob Myers) > Yi! > > Not this again! > > Well, actually I've always felt that it was just a matter of time. > > I tried to create rec.boats.paddle.seakayak back in about 1995, but > the time wasn't right for a split then. Most of the actual contributors > to the newsgroup, including sea kayakers, were against the split then, > and the supporters were mostly lurkers to whom it "sounded like a good idea". > I gave up on the idea when I realized this. I was one of those against it at the time. But I must say, it has been a very long time since I have regularly read the newsgroup. I would support a split now. The flavor of the group changed when Tim Ingram chased off all the seakayakers with his "sponson blitzkrieg." > Good luck! I haven't read r.b.p in ages now, so I no longer have any > opinion on this particular split. Understandable. There are probably many that think the same way. However, it might be worth a shot.... :-) Jackie (glad to see they aren't considering rec.boats.paddle.flatwater) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I've seen the RPB post and think it's a great idea! White water has as much in common with Sea Kayaking as mountain biking and road racing...different environments, equipment and most importantly, mentality and sensibility. Now where does surf kayaking fit in????? -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net] On Behalf Of Wes Boyd Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 5:54 PM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: [Paddlewise] New USENET rec.boat.paddle subgroups proposed Those of you that are familiar with USENET's rec.boat.paddle know that it tends to be largely whitewater paddler posts, with flatwater, canoe, and other type posts often drowned out by all the whitewater noise. For the last two months, several people who are more or less regulars on r.b.p., including myself, have been working on a Request For Discussion (RFD) to create two new newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle.whitewater and rec.boats.paddle.touring, which would be in addition to the existing group. Again, those of you familiar with rec.boat.paddle know that any suggestion to split or reorganize the group is controversial, and there has been controversy since the announcement of the new RFD was made Monday. Generally, what will happen is that this proposal will be discussed for about three weeks, then there will likely be a Call For Votes (CFV) on the proposal. It takes a pretty good vote to pass these proposals, and, when the time comes, Paddlewise users will be eligible to vote on these new newsgroups. Those of us that put the proposal together welcome examination, discussion and support of the proposal by Paddlewisers. Formal discussion of the proposal is supposed to take place in the USENET group "news.groups", but inevitably there's a lot of discussion on RBP itself, if you would like to look in on it. I did not post a copy of the RFD here, for the sake of space (it's rather lengthy), but will either e-mail or post if requested. I'm also available to reply to questions, if needed. There are a couple other Paddlewisers involved in the RFD proposal group, too. -- Wes Boyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote: >Now where does surf kayaking fit in????? Move it to Australia? Be out of the way of the rest of us... <grin> Hank Hays *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:10 AM 5/13/99 -0400, Bob wrote: >I've seen the RPB post and think it's a great idea! White water has as much >in common with Sea Kayaking as mountain biking and road racing...different >environments, equipment and most importantly, mentality and sensibility. > >Now where does surf kayaking fit in????? Since I've received requests via E-mail as well as this, I've included the actual RFD below. Surf kayaking is included in with rbp.whitewater, mostly since there's a lot of crossover there, and several similar techniques. If in time the message traffic grows enough to support it, there's no reason that a separate rbp.surfing group couldn't be initiated, given that we'd now have precedent for a reorganization. -- Wes ------------------------------------ > REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) > unmoderated group rec.boats.paddle.whitewater > unmoderated group rec.boats.paddle.touring > >This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of >world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroups rec.boats.paddle.whitewater >and rec.boats.paddle.touring. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); >you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below. > >Newsgroup lines: >rec.boats.paddle.touring Flatwater paddling and touring. >rec.boats.paddle.whitewater Whitewater paddling. > >RATIONALE: all groups > >The newsgroup rec.boats.paddle carried more than 17,500 messages in >the first three months of 1999 for an average of 195 per day. A >newsgroup with almost 200 messages per day can be difficult to read >and is considered by many to be too busy. Additionally, the total >number of posts increased by 40% from 1997 to 1998 (50,285 in >1998 vs 36,008 in 1997.) It is reasonable to expect that this growth >will continue. The creation of two new groups as subgroups to >rec.boats.paddle would redistribute this traffic among three groups >and would allow paddlers to read and post to a more focused group. > >Discussion of flatwater paddling constitutes a minority of the traffic >on rbp. A rec.boats.paddle.touring group would provide a forum for >those who are interested primarily in the use of canoes, kayaks, >pulling boats or similar craft on rivers, lakes, oceans or other >essentially flat bodies of water. It is hoped that a lower volume >group, dedicated to touring, will encourage posting by paddlers who >are currently exchanging information through mailing lists, bulletin >boards, or other forums. > >Relevant discussion of whitewater paddling on rec.boats.paddle has >been diminished by the large number of posts and the broad scope of >those posts. A rec.boats.paddle.whitewater group would facilitate >focused, quality discussion for those who use kayaks, canoes, rafts, >or similar craft on whitewater. > >Rec.boats.paddle would continue to provide a forum for issues of >interest to all paddlers and for those paddling-related topics which >aren't appropriate to either of the more focused subgroups. > >CHARTER: rec.boats.paddle.whitewater > >Appropriate topics for rec.boats.paddle.whitewater include questions >and comments about the paddling of swiftly moving water primarily in >rivers, but also including ocean water in the surf zone or in tidal >bores. Though not technically whitewater, discussion of the sport of >canoe (kayak) polo is also acceptable. Discussion of paddling >whitewater by any craft is acceptable, including but not limited to >kayaks, canoes, rafts, surf skis, inflatable kayaks and dories. >Additionally, discussion of whitewater travel by riverboard, inner >tube or in the total absence of a craft (swimming) is permitted. >Discussion of equipment, techniques, river conditions, trip reports, >or trips being planned would be appropriate. Discussion of other >paddling-related topics should be taken to either rec.boats.paddle or >rec.boats.paddle.touring, as appropriate. > >Crossposting should be kept to a minimum. An article which would be of >interest to the entire paddling community should be posted to >rec.boats.paddle instead of to the subgroups. Readers who are >interested in general paddling traffic should subscribe to >rec.boats.paddle. > >In accordance with current Usenet guidelines, spam is prohibited. >Commercial posts should be relevant, short and infrequent. A link to >a website, or an e-mail address should be posted rather than the >promotional material itself. > >For Sale and Wanted to Buy posts by individuals should be preceded by >a [FS] or [WTB] flag in the subject header and should be posted no >more than once per week. > >Binary files should not be posted to this newsgroup. > >END CHARTER. > >CHARTER: rec.boats.paddle.touring > >Appropriate topics for rec.boats.paddle.touring include questions and >comments about the paddling of canoes, sea, touring or recreational >kayaks and related craft on, rivers, lakes, and oceans for touring, >excursions, and explorations of any length. This may include some >discussion of whitewater if undertaken as part of a longer trip. >Discussion of equipment, techniques, routes, or trip reports would be >appropriate. Discussion of other paddling-related topics should be >taken to either rec.boats.paddle or rec.boats.paddle.whitewater, as >appropriate. > >Crossposting should be kept to a minimum. An article which would be of >interest to the entire paddling community should be posted to >rec.boats.paddle instead of to the subgroups. Readers who >are interested in general paddling traffic should subscribe >to rec.boats.paddle. > >In accordance with current Usenet guidelines, spam is prohibited. >Commercial posts should be relevant, short and infrequent. A link to >a website, or an e-mail address should be posted rather than the >promotional material itself. > >For Sale and Wanted to Buy posts by individuals should be preceded by >a [FS] or [WTB] flag in the subject header and should be posted no >more than once per week. > >Binary files should not be posted to this newsgroup. > >END CHARTER. > >PROCEDURE: > >This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase >of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups >should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue >for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this >proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For >Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion >warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens. > >All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. > >This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation >guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How >to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these >documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any >questions about the process. > >DISTRIBUTION: > >This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups: > > news.announce.newgroups,news.groups, > rec.boats.paddle,rec.backcountry, > rec.boats.building,rec.scouting.misc, > uk.rec.boats.paddle > >Proponent: John Lester <jwlester_at_ucdavis.edu> >Proponent: Bob Solak <solakrob_at_pilot.msu.edu> >Proponent: Bud Chavez <bchavez_at_rippe.com> >Proponent: Lloyd Bowles <lbowles_at_bmts.com> >Proponent: Don Varnau <dvarnau_at_idir.net> >Proponent: Jim Michaels <jmichaels_at_home.com> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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