After much discussion and investigation, the Significant Other and I purchased a canoe. Yesterday was the first time that we ventured outside of the protected practice area in which we've previously paddled. We have a fiberglass Clipper Tripper. Where we went there was a mild to moderate amount of motorboat traffic. Most of the stuff that I've read about canoe or kayak navigation focuses on dealing with the larger boats. But it seems that most of our experience (and worries) will be with the smaller boats. For example, when approaching the main channel of the Columbia, we observed something that resembled a freeway, with powerboats zooming back and forth at high speed. I had the impression that watching for canoe traffic would not be a high priority for the motorized boaters, and we elected not to enter the river there. So on the one hand, we hear about people paddling in the main channel of the river, but on the other hand it's not clear how one would do that without risking being run over. Currenet and wind seemed like small risks compared to the power boats. The other thing I'm not sure of is how to share a river with power boaters. What are their expectations of me, and what are my reasonable expectations of them? Also, I would appreciate any advice on how to handle a canoe in the wakes produced by the boats. Even though we were paddling in a rather protected area, the boat wakes were quite . . . . invigorating. Especially when three or more boats would pass by in a short amout of time, the wake patterns became quite confused, and I felt like I was in a situation that I wasn't sure how to handle. Generally, we found that just continuing to paddle and maintaining forward motion seemed to be the best course of action. As I mentioned, the books I've read mostly say "don't get run over by barges," but they don't have much on how to handle the smaller boats. I'll appreciate any information. Thanks. -- jim [By the way, a a fellow at the local kayak and canoe shop was told by a deputy sheriff on river patrol that they estimate that seventy percent of people behind the wheels of power boats are legally intoxicated.] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Holman <holmanj_at_ohsu.edu> >The other thing I'm not sure of is how to share a river with power boaters. What are their expectations of me, and what are my reasonable expectations of them? Rules of the nautical road is "the smaller vessel yeilds to the larger vessel" . Ten out of ten times we are the smaller vessles. Be Safe, Arthur Hebert >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
A difference should be noted between legal rules of the road, vs practical, and how they effect one another. Legally, a paddled craft has right of way over just about everything except commercial and deep draft vessels moving in a channel. What this means is that you are responsible for not doing anything unpredictable. You should also be vigilant to avoid inconveniencing other vessels. Try to maintain a consistent distance between you and the shore, cruise on the right hand side of the channel, just like when you are driving. When crossing a channel, sprint. Put every last dribble of power you have into it. BE SEEN. BE PREDICTABLE. On the other end of the legal spectrum, a recreational power boat has right of way over just about nothing, but the operator is often intoxicated and has never studied the coast guard rules of the road. So if he hits you, its his fault, but that won't make your head feel any better. He goes to jail, you go to the hospital, bad trade. So again, BE PREDICTABLE. BE SEEN. The drunk idiot in the powerboat doesn't (usually) want to hit you, so if you make it easy to avoid being hit, you'll (usually) be ok. Now in Texas, our Sheriffs and TPWD wardens have figured out there is ticket money to be made fining drunk or dangerous boaters. And they have bought themselves cool, go-fast boats, and lots of ticket books. So hopefully, people will get tired of paying big fines, and the percentage of drunken operators will decrease. Our laws have also recently been improved to make the bagging of jetskiers much easier. All the warden has to do is see one operated at speed within 50 ft of any other vessel, and its ticket time. All that said, I rarely hear of a power/sail or power/canoe collision and fatality, but power/power fatalities are a dime a dozen. Again, predictability. The sail or canoe is predictable usually. The JetSki on the other hand is not, and when two unpredictable craft approach at 30mph, there just isn't much hope for a happy outcome. There is also the difference in attitude between a decked sea kayak looking for wakes to play in; and an open, recreational family canoe. I rarely see a recreational power boat with enough draft to throw a wake that is even worth noticing; but if I were paddling a 2 person canoe with my wife in the bow, my attitude might be different. If this is the case for Mr. Holman; he may have to adjust the places that he chooses to canoe. Richard Walker Houston, TX http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I've spent a lot of time in small boats. I've studied the rules of right of way but don't really retain the particulars. The intent is: The less maneuverable vessel has right of way over the more maneuverable vessel. The application is: The less maneuverable vessel is to hold course in a predictable manner while the more maneuverable vessel changes course to avoid collision. Just who is more maneuverable depends on the situation. A 50 ft sailboat cruising in open water can easily avoid me in my kayak. But put them in a narrow channel and I'm now more maneuverable. In practical application, even when I have right of way, I watch and then steer a course that avoids collision. And then I watch and make sure that the other guy is taking my cue. I can not think of a single incident where I felt in danger of a collision. I also carefully avoid Saturday afternoon small boat traffic. Tom Unger Seattle "R. Walker" wrote: > > A difference should be noted between legal rules of the road, vs > practical, and how they effect one another. > > Legally, a paddled craft has right of way over just about everything > except commercial and deep draft vessels moving in a channel. > What this means is that you are responsible for not doing anything > unpredictable. You should also be vigilant to avoid inconveniencing > other vessels. Try to maintain a consistent distance between you > and the shore, cruise on the right hand side of the channel, just > like when you are driving. When crossing a channel, sprint. Put > every last dribble of power you have into it. BE SEEN. BE > PREDICTABLE. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
That's not the real rules just the commonsense one known as the "Tonnage Rule". -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net> To: Jim Holman <holmanj_at_ohsu.edu>; PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Holman <holmanj_at_ohsu.edu> >>The other thing I'm not sure of is how to share a river with power boaters. >What are their expectations of me, and what are my reasonable expectations >of them? > >Rules of the nautical road is "the smaller vessel yeilds to the larger >vessel" . Ten out of ten times we are the smaller vessles. >Be Safe, Arthur Hebert > >>************************************************************************** * >>PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >>Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >>Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >>Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >>************************************************************************** * >> > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> cruise on the right hand side of the channel I do all I can to stay out of channels. The best protection (and often the most interesting cruising) is to stay in water suited only to a kayak or canoe. They can't hit you if they've run aground! Best, Jim *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > cruise on the right hand side of the channel > > I do all I can to stay out of channels. The best protection (and often > the most interesting cruising) is to stay in water suited only to a kayak > or canoe. They can't hit you if they've run aground! That severely limits where you can go. Especially when the REAL recreational nuts, jetskiers, can run to just about anywhere you can kayak. [That said, I don't particularly dislike jetskiers] Also, in some places, staying out of the channels is a guaranteed way of getting your hull cut open by oyster shell. Other places, all there is, is channel. I like open water. I didn't need a kayak to get to shallow water flats. I could wade there. Now, if motor traffic bothers you, then by all means, don't go out to sea, don't go to the major bays, don't travel major rivers. Personally, when Lake Conroe here gets wall to wall powerboats and jetskis, I won't go out on it. Then again, I wouldn't go out on it in a powerboat either when its like that. In the end, I have to say, I've never had any trouble with powerboaters, and I have done my best to be no trouble to other boaters, power or otherwise. Richard Walker Houston, TX http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jim Holman wrote: > > After much discussion and investigation, the Significant Other and I purchased a > canoe. [snip] > > when approaching the main channel of the Columbia [River], we observed something > that resembled a freeway, with powerboats zooming back and forth at high speed. Man, you paddle a different section of the Columbia than I do! I'd suggest finding a different place to paddle. After that, I'd suggest sticking to water the power boaters can't run in, at least until you have good control of that canoe, especially when wakes hit you. For crossing the shipping channel, look *a long ways* both directions for traffic, and allow plenty of room ahead of any ships. Many places, it may be difficult to figure out exactly where the "edge" of the channel is. Work on developing that skill, and when you are certain you know how to determine where the "edge" is, creep up to it, wait for a good-sized hole, and zip across the channel. Down here, the channel is roughly 200 yards wide. It may be narrower up where you are. Remember that those ships (freighters) can not stop for a mile or so, and that the captain on the bridge can not see the water surface (you) for up to half a mile in front of the ship's bow. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The opposite is sometimes referred to as being *dead right.* -----Original Message----- From: Matt Broze [mailto:mkayaks_at_oz.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 6:32 PM To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road? That's not the real rules just the commonsense one known as the "Tonnage Rule". -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net> To: Jim Holman <holmanj_at_ohsu.edu>; PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Holman <holmanj_at_ohsu.edu> >>The other thing I'm not sure of is how to share a river with power boaters. >What are their expectations of me, and what are my reasonable expectations >of them? > >Rules of the nautical road is "the smaller vessel yeilds to the larger >vessel" . Ten out of ten times we are the smaller vessles. >Be Safe, Arthur Hebert > >>************************************************************************** * >>PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >>Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >>Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >>Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >>************************************************************************** * >> > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
|I do all I can to stay out of channels. The best protection (and often the |most interesting cruising) is to stay in water suited only to a kayak or |canoe. They can't hit you if they've run aground! I hug the shore in high traffic areas. I figure that if they hit me they are then going to hit a strip of very rough land and then the forrest. But this DOES NOT ALWAYS work. Last year I was almost run over not once but twice at almost the same spot! I was really hugging the shoreline, about 15 feet out when a powerboat came in and decided he wanted to beach his boat. He saw me. I made and KEPT eye contact with the moron. I kept on my course and speed so the GreatPowerBoatCaptain turned across my bow to get into shore. I had to do a back paddle and lean turn to keep from having a collision. He then had the nerve of saying something to me. He apologised after I was finished talking to him. I dont often loose my temper but I did with him. I'm glad there were no children around. If he was drunk I could understand. If he was trying to scare the little paddle boat, I can deal with that attitude. This guy was just plain dumb. He was a yankee so what do you expect! 8-) I thought about going and getting the park ranger but I would have been outnumbered 4 to 1 in what happened. I should have done it anyway since he had a NY registration and I would be willing to bet that he had moved down here and had not registered his boat. The ranger would not have seen the reckless boat operation but he would see the registration..... Should have done it. Had a very similar situation a few weeks later within 100 yards of the first. So, keep close to shore in high traffic areas but don't discount the idiots with a key. Later... Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com wrote: > > |I do all I can to stay out of channels. The best protection (and often the > |most interesting cruising) is to stay in water suited only to a kayak or > |canoe. They can't hit you if they've run aground! > > I hug the shore in high traffic areas. I figure that if they hit me they are > then going to hit a strip of very rough land and then the forrest. But this > DOES NOT ALWAYS work. Last year I was almost run over not once but twice at > almost the same spot! I was really hugging the shoreline, about 15 feet out > when a powerboat came in and decided he wanted to beach his boat. This reminds me that one of the greatest dangers of traffic for kayaks is not so much out in the channel where you know the margins because of buoys and have a pretty good field of view but rather when boats are entering or exiting marinas and commercial slips. I always make a note on my chart or in my head of where all those crux points are and am intensely alert while approaching them. The trouble here in New York City is that with the revival of the port for pleasure, tours and ferries, new ferry and tour slips are being created all the time and it is hard to keep up with them. Last year, a friend was paddling back from the Statue of Liberty to the Downtown Boathouse in Manhattan and proceeding up the Jersey shoreline. He spotted a Circle Line tour boat coming along from the Statue or Ellis Island and stopped to let it pull into the Morris Basin where its slip is. Or _was_ : the tour line companyhad changed its slip to outside the Morris Basin to a new slip right where he was dutifully and responsively giving the tour boat the right of way. It kept blowing its horn at him until he backed up some more. Then he saw the tour boat pull into its new slip right where he had been. I took a walk along the Jersey shore across from Manhattan a few weeks ago with the Shorewalkers. As the name implies, the objective is to walk the shore. I spotted several ferry slips that operate only during the week that I had not known about before. I could imagine the confusion a paddler taking a vacation day might run into with them. There are no hard-n-fast rules for dealing with marine entrances and commercial slips. All you can do is be alert, slow down, peer into the opening, etc. Waiting for the horn to blast doesn't work much. The operating rule seems to be to blow the horn as the vessel starts passing the pier head, which is pretty late for a kayaker who is coming along and hard to spot by any stern spotter or the person on the bridge of a large cabin cruiser. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
For those wanting to get an actual copy..... http://www.uscg.mil/vtm/pages/rules.htm Richard Walker Houston, TX http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dan said "but don't discount the idiots with a key." I had been paddling for about an hour and a 25' cruiser overloaded with "new Canadians" kept on passing me causing a large wake as they would circle back every 10 minutes or so. The water in the area was deep and regardless of how close I kept to shore, they would pass by closely. When I was paddling parallel to a dock at a commercial marina the boat came back again and even though he could clearly see me he suddenly veered closely across my bow to dock. This didn't surprise me as you get used to rude and careless boaters and I proceeded to paddle around the boat. But when a chap on the dock yelled that they were dragging a line in the water he gunned the engine pointing the boat directly at me. Frantic back paddling and more than a little luck saved me. The only reason for this I could think of is they may have had poor english and thought the chap on the dock was chasing them off. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Part of the Origional Message From: Richard Walker "A difference should be noted between legal rules of the road, vs practical, and how they effect one another. Legally, a paddled craft has right of way over just about everything except commercial and deep draft vessels moving in a channel." My Response: Please check again R. Walker. "Legally" speaking, I don't believe that boats propelled by manual means (this legalese for paddled or rowed boats) are ever mentioned in the Navigation Rules as something that other boats are required to give-way to. I am paraphrasing here but The Inland Navigation Rules (9,10, 13 & 18) generally state as follows: A power boat must keep out of the way of: vessel not under command (basically adrift, or aground and without any means to control its course) , vessel restricted in it's ability to maneuver (a dredge, pile driver etc., a vessel engaged in fishing (but not including sport fishing, or trolling,) and a sailing vessel (but only when it is being propelled exclusively by sails.) There are exceptions for: deep draft vessels when operating in narrow channels, vessels operating under a Traffic Separation (lanes) Scheme, and overtaking (passing) situations. My reading is that since they are not specifically mentioned, "manually propelled vessels" do not have any priority right-of-way privileges. The only situation that I can find where paddle craft may have the right-of-way is with seaplanes which are required to keep well clear of ALL vessels. Also, I agree that the venerated "Rule of Tonnage" while not actually identified in the Code of Federal Regulations is never ignored by a "prudent mariner." The Bigger boat is not only usually the tougher boat, it generally is more difficult to maneuver and that too should be considered. There are also Rules 7 & 8. for the benefit of anyone who might ever be convinced of their right-of-way or be determined to maintain course and speed even if it means a collision: Every boat is required to be alert to the risk of collision, assume the risk exists in any situation where there is doubt and to take positive action in sufficient time to avoid a collision. Be Careful Out There! Dave Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
| Now, now, Dan! Let's not *just* pick on the yanks, eh? I'm a displaced New | Englander who has lived in Alabama, Mississippi, Arizona, Florida, New | Mexico, Virginia, Idaho, California, Nebraska, Indiana, Germany and Spain | (courtesy of the U.S. Air Force). And I'm convinced -- "plain dumb" is a | global concept!!! *~{ | Cheers! | Jim Tynan Well, Jim, even though your a Yankee, your right. 8-) But I notice that you spent a whole lot of time outside of UpNorth! 8-) Later... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/2/99 11:10:37 AM EST, unger_at_tumtum.com writes: > The less maneuverable vessel is to hold course in a predictable > manner while the more maneuverable vessel changes course to > avoid collision. I was crossing Rosario Channel during the San Juan Challenge race a few weeks ago. I had a rescue boat following behind me. Out of a dozen kayaks crossing Rosario and it decided that I needed a close eye. A third of the way across a large power boat approached on a intersect course, moving from left to right. I did what I usually do and pointed my bow at the speeding boat that was a quarter mile away. As the boat draw near I maintained a headed toward the stern of the power boat. Then it suddenly came to a dead stop. I assume that my escort had radioed a warning that a kayak race was going on. It now blocked my path. I still could not bring myself to paddle under its bow but continued along its side and passed its stern. Maybe for my ungrateful disregard for the rules, the safety boat followed me for 30 minutes. It was like a slow torquer with that diesel engine idling slowly behind me. . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
What's a new Canadian? Or should that have been "nude Canadian"? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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