I couldn't resist biting on this one, but not sure of the net result. Here in Texas A&M at Galveston's Library I've found some intriguing references, which I will quote below. Both works are copyrighted, so excerpts are brief and I recommend you go to the original for the full story. In H. David Baldridge's Shark Attack (Drake House/Hallux, Inc., 1974) page 48, a discussion of YUM YUM YELLOW describes the color "To shark researchers, this term stands for International Orange and the related bright yellow and orange-yellow colors most often employed in connection with such sea survival equipment as life jackets, rafts, etc." He talks about the importance of high visibility in search and rescue efforts and notes "Unfortunately, conspicuity is not a selective quality, and to be easily seen by one searcher is to be easily seen by all, be they rescuers or predators." Dr. Baldridge also discusses the work of Dr. Scott Johnson of the Navy and Ernest McFadden of the FAA, and their observation of colors and shark attacks in a controlled experiment in 1971. The yellow life vest in their study was attacked in preference to any other color they used, and the attacks continued on the yellow colored vests until they were destroyed. Another book of the same era, The Book of Sharks by Richard Ellis (Grosset and Dunlap, 1975), page 206, the author states "Color does play a role in the study of shark repellents". He also refers to Dr. Johnson's work as above, and refers to a "Shark Screen" that Dr. Johnson patented to protect its wearer by using a plastic bag that interferes with the olfactory and visual senses the shark uses to select its prey/meal. Yech, and I paddle a yellow-decked kayak, and wear a Mango-colored life jacket. Doesn't that just sound yummy? So, the YUM YUM YELLOW isn't just an urban legend or sea yarn - I'll leave the rest up to your individual interpretation. Natalie, the paddlin' librarian, Wiest Galveston/Houston, Texas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Steven Holtzman" <waterdoc_at_earthlink.net> > Around here (Southern CA) we refer to that color as Yum Yum Yellow. It seems > that someone did a study concerning what color kayaks were preferred by > sharks and the two most popular colors for attacks were yellow and then > white. (I wish I had known that before I bought my boat in Perception's > Granite) ;) > > Steve Holtzman Nope, that's an urban legend. I thought most California sea kayakers knew that. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: bob_at_intelenet.net (Bob Myers) > Nobody's done a study of what color kayaks a shark prefers. Of course they haven't! Silly humans! They've got it ALL wrong! We sharks don't like yellow! We paddle in chartreuse only! (It enhances the glow of our skin <big toothy grin>) _ _ / \O/ \ _ _ " / \O/ \ " ______ ,,/' ) ,,___,~~~~""""~~~ / <, ~_at_ / `vvvvvvvv, )))) / ^^^^^^" \ `~~~~~~, ( | _____ ,) \ \ / _____ (_____>-----------/----\ /--/-----------<_____) / \_/ / _________________ ___ _|___________ (____________________. \ CHARTREUSE GOOSE /| ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~jf~~ o o o o o o o o o Kilroy Sharkbyte *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
....I note with some trepidation that your great white seems to be brandishing an *unfeathered* paddle! Clearly, this is a matter of preference to the greater predators.......... ....... comments? :^) ` ( .........I love the self perpetuating nature of this list........) has anyone besides me ever noticed how much Julia Roberts and a Great White resemble one another when they smile? Separated at birth? Jackie Fenton wrote: > From: bob_at_intelenet.net (Bob Myers) > > > Nobody's done a study of what color kayaks a shark prefers. > > Of course they haven't! Silly humans! They've got it ALL wrong! We > sharks don't like yellow! We paddle in chartreuse only! > (It enhances the glow of our skin <big toothy grin>) > > _ _ > / \O/ \ > _ _ " > / \O/ \ > " ______ > ,,/' ) > ,,___,~~~~""""~~~ / > <, ~_at_ / > `vvvvvvvv, )))) / > ^^^^^^" \ > `~~~~~~, ( | > _____ ,) \ \ / _____ > (_____>-----------/----\ /--/-----------<_____) > / \_/ / > _________________ ___ _|___________ (____________________. > \ CHARTREUSE GOOSE /| > ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~jf~~ > o > o o > o o > o > o > o o > Kilroy Sharkbyte > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve wrote; >Around here (Southern CA) we refer to that color as Yum Yum Yellow. It seems >that someone did a study concerning what color kayaks were preferred by >sharks and the two most popular colors for attacks were yellow and then >white. (I wish I had known that before I bought my boat in Perception's >Granite) ;) Steve, I think that was the US Navy that did the study, been a while since I read bout the study. If I remember correctly Yum Yum Yellow was the most popular color and black was the most unpoular color for attracting our sharped toothed friends and yes they are friends, just like people some just have a bad attitude. I've been bumped by a couple and been in a feeding frenzey with a couple, of course I was in the kayak and they were in the water. Arthur *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie wrote > Nope, that's an urban legend. I thought most California sea kayakers > knew that. > Bob Myers Wrote Ridiculous, of course. Nobody's done a study of what color kayaks a shark prefers. And besides, shark attacks on kayaks are so rare that the data is statistically invalid. i write; I'm not sure about these comments. A few years ago I had heard of this. Sounded dubious. then one day while lunching in the tea room I happened to pick up one of the scientific mags that lie around my work place. Don't ask me which one - I didn't keep it. There it was - a story about a study by some shark researchers who had studied on which colours are most likely to attract a shark attack. they had tried all sorts of colours and patterns - using surfboards, or something similar, if I remember correctly.. the results - yum yum yellow was number one also don't get a zebra pattern black and white kayak- that was number two. If I remember correctly though the associations were not that strong. Unless the story or research was a hoax or my memory is so awful - there you are. Nick Nicholas Gill School of Geography and Oceanography University of NSW Australian Defence Force Academy Canberra ACT 2600 Ph. 02 6268 8317 Mob. 041 7659440 Fax 02 6268 8313 Email: nicholas.gill_at_adfa.edu.au *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--------- > The "study", if it exists, was definitely not based on kayaks. Kayaks > is a new variation on the Yum Yum Yellow legend. > as I said in my posting I recall they used surfboards or some such floating device > I haven't been able to track down this legendary study, but it's not at > all likely from what I've heard that the results apply to sharks found > in Southern California waters, or to objects shaped like a kayak floating > on the surface. i can;t recall the location > > Let's please stop spreading silly rumors like this until some hard > data surfaces, ok? Can anyone actually find this so-called study in > the scientific literature, or other real scientific source? If not, I > respectfully suggest it should be treated as just another rumor/myth. well as I said I DID stumble across it in a scientific magazine (the oceanographers here get a few of them - of the serious scientific magazine but not fully fledged journal variety). Maybe I'll search for it again one day. nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Nick Gill" <nicholas.gill_at_adfa.edu.au> > > > Jackie wrote > > > Nope, that's an urban legend. I thought most California sea kayakers > > > knew that. > > > > > > Bob Myers Wrote > > Ridiculous, of course. > > > > Nobody's done a study of what color kayaks a shark prefers. > > > > And besides, shark attacks on kayaks are so rare that the data is > > statistically invalid. > > i write; > > I'm not sure about these comments. A few years ago I had heard of this. > Sounded dubious. then one day while lunching in the tea room I happened > to pick up one of the scientific mags that lie around my work place. > Don't ask me which one - I didn't keep it. It's important to know which one if you are going to state it as a study in a scientific magazine and attempt to persuade us of it's validity. But, I can do that, too. A group of researchers (I can't remember their names) did a study some time ago on sharks that were of a species known to be harmless (never attacked humans). They concluded that these sharks liked the color yellow that was flashed before them. Ergo the yum yum yellow theory was born. Another group of researchers (I can't remember their names either) re-ran the study and found it inconclusive. It had nothing to do with kayaks and only involved one species of sharks that were harmless to humans. > There it was - a story about a study by some shark researchers who had > studied on which colours are most likely to attract a shark attack. they > had tried all sorts of colours and patterns - using surfboards, or > something similar, if I remember correctly.. I don't remember this. > the results - yum yum yellow was number one > also don't get a zebra pattern black and white kayak- that was number two. Don't tell that to the young couple traveling the world in their kayaks that are depending on statements they claim they have heard that painting zebra stripes on their kayaks will keep them safe from shark attack. So which is it? It was rumored that sharks do not eat the small pilot fish that swim with them because they are black and white striped. Because of this rumor, dive shops marketed black and white striped dive suits as "shark repellent suits." Ron and Valarie Taylor, well known underwater filmmakers who have shot extensive footage of white sharks, tested the white and black striped diving suit theory and found the suits to have no effect on sharks at all. pg 223, Sharks, published by Facts On File. btw, Cousteau's divers often wore silvery white suits with black stripes down their arms, sides and legs which gave them the appearance of having black and white stripes while underwater conducting research on great white sharks. See Cousteau's "Great White Shark," text and illustration produced by the Cousteau Society, published by Abram's. > If I remember correctly though the associations were not that strong. > Unless the story or research was a hoax or my memory is so awful - > there you are. > Nick There has been "No conclusive experimental evidence that sharks respond to particular colours" - pg 76 "Sharks, Silent Hunters of The Deep," contributors include Dr. Perry Gilbert, Director Emeritus, Mote Marine Laboratories, Dr. Scott Johnson, Naval Ocean Systems Center in San Diego (research into shark repellents). Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> It's important to know which one if you are going to state it as a study > in a scientific magazine and attempt to persuade us of it's validity. OK but is this a scientific forum or a place to have interesting and relaxed chats about sea kayaking. I thought i might as well put in my two cents worth after the terribly SERIOUS postings on the matter. Finding this thing would be a big effort and i'm not sure its worth it. Finding it was one of those serendipitous things. All I can say I read these things in what appeared to be a reputable scientific mag, not some newspaper or shock/horror publication about sharks. nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Nick Gill" <nicholas.gill_at_adfa.edu.au> > OK but is this a scientific forum or a place to have interesting and > relaxed chats about sea kayaking. hmmm... I didn't think one necessarily ruled out the other. I only hope that none of those folks who have already bought their yellow kayaks for safety reasons will buy this rumor when neither the source nor the study can be identified. However, we can identify respectable resources which state there is no conclusive evidence to support the color preference theory. And, like Bob says, all of this is silly because there aren't enough attacks on kayaks to form *any* opinion. I also agree with David that sharks don't need any more JAWS mentality (I'm paraphrasing his words). Cheers, Jackie (will gladly keep and paddle her yellow Sea Lion) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
While not a scientist, I am a student of nature. And while "man" (read scientists) continue the project of labeling everything that exists in "his" world, perhaps it is time to employ a more natural thought process when dealing with nature. That is, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it just might be a duck." One of the most asked paddling questions in my little part of the world (NE Fl) is, "What about the gators?" How this relates is this. I have never personally been confronted by a gator but have heard stories of boats being "nuzzled" around by big boys. Mainly during mating season. From under the water, the underside of a yellow or white hull would resemble the size, shape and color of a potential mate or competitor. It is not difficult to make the leap to other aquatic animals. My advice to paddlers during gator mating season is to avoid confrontation in the three "F's." Don't come between an animal and its food, family or f(hmmm. I can't remember the third "F.") "Oh, well, never mind." EL Bruce (St. Aug) Whole Earth Outfitters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote: > > While not a scientist, I am a student of nature. <snip> > I have never personally been confronted by a gator but have > heard stories of boats being "nuzzled" around by big boys. Mainly during > mating season. From under the water, the underside of a yellow or white hull > would resemble the size, shape and color of a potential mate or competitor. As would the underside of a light blue, fuchia, pink, or chartreuse hull. Not to mention an aluminum Grumman canoe. It's also rather difficult to impute intentions to a reptile, especially one who is under your boat. "Nuzzled" implies amorous intentions. How did they know? Did he send flowers? I've had a gator hit the bottom of my boat. I assure you I didn't assume I was being courted. > It is not difficult to make the leap to other aquatic animals. Unfortunately, it is not. But let's try not to, anyway, unless we have better info. I seem to recall pictures of the Ano Nuevo shark attack. That kayak was either red or blue, certainly not yellow. Then again, Jackie has some "killer" pictures of a shark threatening a yellow SOT. Are those on the web anywhere, Jackie? Or do we need to wait six months? Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:52 AM 9/21/99 EDT, you wrote: >While not a scientist, I am a student of nature. And while "man" (read >scientists) continue the project of labeling everything that exists in "his" >world, perhaps it is time to employ a more natural thought process when >dealing with nature. That is, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a >duck, it just might be a duck." One of the most asked paddling questions in >my little part of the world (NE Fl) is, "What about the gators?" How this >relates is this. I have never personally been confronted by a gator but have >heard stories of boats being "nuzzled" around by big boys. Mainly during >mating season. From under the water, the underside of a yellow or white hull >would resemble the size, shape and color of a potential mate or competitor. >It is not difficult to make the leap to other aquatic animals. My advice to >paddlers during gator mating season is to avoid confrontation in the three >"F's." Don't come between an animal and its food, family or f(hmmm. I can't >remember the third "F.") "Oh, well, never mind." EL > Bruce (St. Aug) > Whole Earth Outfitters >*************************************************************************** Back years ago when I use to canoe, till I learned better, I had a yellow canoe which I did a lot of photography out of. Once in the Okeefonokee Swamp a gator followed me around all day blowing bubbles out its nose and bumping the canoe. This went on for hours and every time it did I would put the paddle blade between its eyes and push it away, the bump there it was again. The ranger said it was a horny gator and a good think I refused it or it would of been more interesting I guess. Boy that was a ugly yellow canoe. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> My advice to >paddlers during gator mating season is to avoid confrontation in the three >"F's." Don't come between an animal and its food, family or f(hmmm. I can't >remember the third "F.") "Oh, well, never mind." I remember four, one of which was "fleeing"..... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/21/99 9:05:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Outfit3029_at_aol.com writes: << Don't come between an animal and its food, family or f(hmmm. I can't remember the third "F.") "Oh, well, never mind." >> And how the heck are we supposed to know if we are coming in between the monster and the three "effs?" Sandy Kramer Miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:52:59 EDT Outfit3029_at_aol.com writes: <<snip>> >One of the most asked paddling >questions in >my little part of the world (NE Fl) is, "What about the gators?" How >this >relates is this. I have never personally been confronted by a gator >but have >heard stories of boats being "nuzzled" around by big boys. Alligators can be found in many places around Louisiana. Paddling around them has not been a problem for me ...so far ! I don't mind seeing one at a distance while he "makes a wake" to where ever it is he is going. If the gator leaves me alone, I'll gladly reciprocate. There have been a few times when the gator seemed not to be doing anything but "eyeing me and/or kayak" from a beam-on position in the water. When that big head and those eyes slowly sink, I will admit to a few anxious moments of thinking "what's he up to now ?" I think I landed almost on top of a basking alligator a few years ago. The shore grass was high and thick. As I "swissshed" aground a huge commotion roiled the water and something not small made its get-away. It could have been a nutria but they usually are pretty wary. The only safety precaution I know of regarding gators and water is to not have a dog along with you. Urban legend ? ...unsure; scientific principle ? ...unknown; good advice ? ...you bet ! Thankfully, wet polyethylene doesn't smell like wet dog ! Hmmm ...now about these paddling shoes ! ...adieu ...Peyton (Louisiana) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 gpwecho_at_juno.com wrote: > The only safety precaution I know of regarding gators and water is to not > have a dog along with you. Urban legend ? ...unsure; scientific > principle ? ...unknown; good advice ? ...you bet ! Not urban legend, apparently: last time we were at the Loxahatchee we learned that an onboard dog had become gator food only a few days before. And Sandy, I think, had "something" disturb her boat on the Estero not long ago when she had one of her dogs aboard. Right, S? Cats have better sense than to get on any boat I'm paddling, so I don't have to worry. e Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> > Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote: <snip> > > It is not difficult to make the leap to other aquatic animals. > > Unfortunately, it is not. But let's try not to, anyway, unless we have > better info. I seem to recall pictures of the Ano Nuevo shark attack. > That kayak was either red or blue, certainly not yellow. It was red. > Then again, Jackie has some "killer" pictures of a shark threatening a > yellow SOT. Are those on the web anywhere, Jackie? Or do we need to wait > six months? oh... all right... :-) http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/chum.html Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> > > > Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote: > > <snip> > > > > It is not difficult to make the leap to other aquatic animals. > > > > Unfortunately, it is not. But let's try not to, anyway, unless we have > > better info. I seem to recall pictures of the Ano Nuevo shark attack. > > That kayak was either red or blue, certainly not yellow. > At Ano Nuevo, the sharks usually prefer a meal of black or grey sea lions. I don't recall them having any interest in the red, blue, or yellow ones. ;-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yeah, fleeing that must be the third "eff" Bruce WEO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My initial posting re the three "effs" brought on some "interesting" responses. I believe someone took offense to my "man" (read scientists) line. I believe he was a Bulldog and just cannot tolerate any sentence with the word Gator. At any rate, I sensed a genuine concern from Sandy about paddling with gators. Here would be my thumbnail suggestions for gator etiquette which I am sure a number of people will disagree with. But first the credentials. Experience, experience, experience. From September till June, I paddle the backwaters of North Central Florida. I try to paddle three times a week. On some of the smaller creeks the gators are quite close and often rather surprised to see humans. My primary focus while on these trips is nature observation. I am an outfitter but I never lead groups larger than four. My first concern is for the natural world not the manufactured one. When the local tourism gurus caught on to the buzz of Ecotourism, I became involved with the citizens advisory board. My spot was on the ethics committee. When I realized that promotion was the focus and not protection of resources I withdrew my participation. The gurus wanted me to reveal my paddling spots in order to create a slick glossy brochure that would attract millions. My response was this, "Telling you where my paddling spots are is like being fifteen years old and telling everybody what a good kisser your girlfriend is, after two weeks they are all agreeing with you." So these are my credentials, I have made a life choice to forgoe fortune in order to more fully appreciate the natural world around me. This is some of what I know about gators and the three "effs." If gators are present, you are in their world. Respect them. Food-Opportunistic feeders. Don't eat daily or on schedule. If you are smaller than them, you look like food. Most gators that you will see are in the 6-8 foot range and don't want much to do with a 16 foot boat. They probably assume that you are there to eat them. Family-if you see little ones 12-20 inches, a bigger one is nearby. Best to observe from a safe distance 40-50 feet. Let's say the third "eff" has something to do with reproduction. This is the easiest as like most animals it is a springtime thing. I am sorry if I cannot cite page or volume numbers as these are things that I just know. I think that most fears relating to natural situations are irrational and simply the result of man's disconnection with nature. I also believe that the reason many people paddle is because of a heightened sense of being one with nature when they paddle.(particularly solo) Which is why I am an outfitter. I try to guide people on the path to nature appreciation which fosters the caretaker mentality.(which is very good for the world in general) I apologize in advance to anyone who misinterprets this as a commercial. That is not the spirit in which it is intended. And now that I have laid bare my soul in this embarrassingly long post, I would ask a question of the Paddlewisers. How do you feel about the explosion of this activity and does it detract from your reason for paddling? Once again, free apologies, Bruce D. McCutcheon Whole Earth Outfitters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote: >VERY LARGE SNIP ABOUT GATOR BEHAVIOR< I agree with you on the exsperance issue, versa the scientific. Trained observation is good, but common sence gained by living amoung things ranks higher with me sometimes. > I apologize in advance to anyone who misinterprets this as a commercial. > That is not the spirit in which it is intended. > And now that I have laid bare my soul in this embarrassingly long post, I > would ask a question of the Paddlewisers. How do you feel about the > explosion of this activity and does it detract from your reason for paddling? > Once again, free apologies, > Bruce D. McCutcheon > Whole Earth Outfitters In over 20 years of paddling in this state I have never seen anouther kayaker on the water at the same time as me, except when I was with them. Altho I have helped several people get started in kayaking, all but a couple paddle at differant times of years and tend to limit their paddling to day trips. I find a certain pleasure in helping people getting started out, but sure wouldn't want to be tripping over someone each time I went out. For example, the OCT. issue of BACKPACKER highlighted a mountain that I have spent quite abit of time on through the years. After the initial glow of reading about "my mountain", I thought, "O'no, now everyone will think it is a must climb". The good part was the picture didn't do it justice. It's a catch 22 issue. Education is the key. By having the masses wanting to preserve the places we paddle..., IT, WE, and the next generation(s) of paddlers have a chance. I hope and pray so! James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This is an interesting question, and one that is part of a personal quandry. I am a new paddler. I now have transportation for my kayak (thanks to all who offered suggestions), and get out pretty regularly. I belong to a local kayaking club that emphasises skills training and safety. I became interested in sea kayaking because it is "knee friendly" and I was anticipating surgery (surgery long over, knee works pretty well). I love kayaking. I think it's great. A lifetime of learning to be had. That having been said. I hate being part of a "trend". It won't keep me from doing something I enjoy and want to keep doing, but sure alters it a bit. I paddle for a number of reasons. Exercise is one of them, and the explosion of the sport won't make any difference there. Adventure is another, and the better I get, the more likely my "adventures" will keep me away from the average "trendy" boater. The one place I feel that the growing popularity of kayaking as a personal problem is when actually trying to "commune" with nature. Pretty difficult to enjoy the wildlife when a bunch of bozos are out there scaring the birds and seals right off the beach. This has become a hot issue here in Northern California, as I'm sure it has in other parts of the world. But, I am new to the sport, and feel that I have little room to complain. Personally, I will endevor to walk softly, and enjoy the places I go while leaving not mark that won't wash away on the next tide. As a final aside. Trends come and go. Activities become popular and after a short period the popularity diminishes. And then lots of good equipment goes on the market, hardly used at all! At 08:17 PM 9/21/99 EDT, Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote: <Big Snip> >I >would ask a question of the Paddlewisers. How do you feel about the >explosion of this activity and does it detract from your reason for paddling? > Once again, free apologies, > Bruce D. McCutcheon > Whole Earth Outfitters *********************************************** * Matthew Blumenthal * * Fremont CA * * Potter, Guitar Player, General Computer Nut * * mattb_at_ix.netcom.com * * http://www.mattegrafix.com * * ICQ 12691259 * *********************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote: > > [snip] My primary focus while on these > trips is nature observation. I am an outfitter but I never lead groups > larger than four. My first concern is for the natural world not the > manufactured one. When the local tourism gurus caught on to the buzz of > Ecotourism, I became involved with the citizens advisory board. My spot was > on the ethics committee. When I realized that promotion was the focus and > not protection of resources I withdrew my participation. The gurus wanted me > to reveal my paddling spots in order to create a slick glossy brochure that > would attract millions. My response was this, "Telling you where my paddling > spots are is like being fifteen years old and telling everybody what a good > kisser your girlfriend is, after two weeks they are all agreeing with you." (BTW, Sippy Wallace wrote a great blues tune on the other side of this called 'Women Be Wise' -- sung as a duet with Bonnie Raitt on Raitt's anthology CD.) > So these are my credentials, I have made a life choice to forgo fortune in > order to more fully appreciate the natural world around me. Bruce has efficiently outlined a common dilemma: He earns some income taking people to nice paddling places -- private and fragile enough that he does not want them broadcast about for the multitudes. What are the ethics of this? Bruce does not "own" these places. In fact, I bet he feels the critters have more right to them than he does. I face much the same dilemma where I live, in that I am often beleagured by friends who want to go to some of the special, fragile spots I know about in my area. If I took them all, and my paddling buddies did the same, those spots would not be special any more: they'd be destroyed! OTOH, if Bruce (and non-outfitters such as me) do not at least help members of the general public to appreciate the nature of fragile, wild places, support for their maintenance will soon wither. And, part of that appreciation must involve visiting those places. So, there is a role for what Bruce does. What is Bruce's role? Never show people those places? Blindfold them so they can not bring others? Charge a lot so only the well-to-do can afford to visit? Think about it a lot and avoid groups such as the citizens advisory group he describes? Where is Edward Abbey when we need him? -- Dave Kruger very confused, in Astoria, OR [where it rains 8 feet a year and is always foggy and nasty] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Dave and all, Bruce D. McCutcheon of Whole Earth Outfitters wrote: <<I became involved with the citizens advisory board. My spot was on the ethics committee. When I realized that promotion was the focus and not protection of resources I withdrew my participation. The gurus wanted me to reveal my paddling spots in order to create a slick glossy brochure that would attract millions.>> To which Dave Kruger replied: <<He earns some income taking people to nice paddling places -- private and fragile enough that he does not want them broadcast about for the multitudes. What are the ethics of this? Bruce does not "own" these places. In fact, I bet he feels the critters have more right to them than he does. I face much the same dilemma where I live, in that I am often beleagured by friends who want to go to some of the special, fragile spots I know about in my area. If I took them all, and my paddling buddies did the same, those spots would not be special any more: they'd be destroyed! OTOH, if Bruce (and non-outfitters such as me) do not at least help members of the general public to appreciate the nature of fragile, wild places, support for their maintenance will soon wither. And, part of that appreciation must involve visiting those places. So, there is a role for what Bruce does. What is Bruce's role? Never show people those places? Blindfold them so they can not bring others? Charge a lot so only the well-to-do can afford to visit? Think about it a lot and avoid groups such as the citizens advisory group he describes?>> This is the biggest Dilemma in many responsible tour operator's hearts. On the one hand, you want people to see the wonders of nature in the hope that they'll "get active" in trying to preserve it. On the other hand, that very act could destroy the area. Here in southern Thailand, the once pristine sea caves are now nothing short of a circus. There are no government regulations. The Thai canoeing companies formed an organization to limit the number of boats entering the caves to 300 per day! Well, as you can probably guess, 300 boats does change it into a circus. Who is to blame for this horrible deed? The first company to exploit the sea caves and "hongs" (hidden inner rooms) for financial gain is to blame. An insightful operator would have foreseen the inevitable outcome. With MINIMAL research, the founders of this company would have found out that the Thai government does not "interfere" with businesses, be they consumer goods manufacturers or nature tour operators. The government does not limit anything. Furthermore, one of the most common traits of the Thai populous in general is that they copy things that work. I'm not saying that that is necessarily wrong. I'm not about to judge another culture. It is, however, a fact that this company should have noticed the above items before starting a business based around the pristine fragile sea caves and hongs. Now, the quality of the experience in zilch. It's highly unlikely that a tourist would be so moved as to join a conservation organization to try and protect places such as this. In my opinion, taking large numbers of people to see magical nature sites is extremely harmful. Some things for a responsible tour operator to consider: 1.) How easy will it be for less scrupulous operators to copy your trip? 2.) Will my tour impact the wildlife? 3.) Can I advertise my tours without giving the actual location away or is it too easy for the competition to follow me? 4.) Is the site so amazing that your guests will likely get involved in an effort to try and protect it? 5.) Will the government implement a permit system? This might be the ultimate deciding factor in whether to go there or not. Thanks Bruce for not giving into the potential monetary gain. Mother Earth could benefit greatly if there were a lot more people with your caring convictions! Cheers, Dave Dave Williams dave_at_paddleasia.com http://paddleasia.com Phuket, Thailand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thank you Mr. Dave, I believe that you have captured the spirit of the post. Perhaps the good people of PW will share their thoughts on ways to balance the wise use/sustainability issues facing many people involved in outdoor pursuits. I say outdoor pursuits to cover a broader user base with like concerns. I do not approve of the current practices regarding use permits in some of our more special areas. Ex. block permitting to commercial outfitters thereby excluding independent travelers. One of the reasons that I think many people resent outfitters in general. I am located near the Okeefenokee Swamp and Cumberland Island National Seashore both of which preclude spontaneity due to their permitting processes. This is not to read as sour grapes, I choose to paddle less traveled waters. Thank you all for the thoughtful postings, Bruce WEO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote: > > Perhaps the good people of PW will share their thoughts on ways to balance > the wise use/sustainability issues facing many people involved in outdoor > pursuits. I say outdoor pursuits to cover a broader user base with like > concerns. I do not approve of the current practices regarding use permits in > some of our more special areas. Ex. block permitting to commercial > outfitters thereby excluding independent travelers. One of the reasons that > I think many people resent outfitters in general. [snip] Block permitting is a sore issue with me, though I do not blame outfitters for its existence. It is more a consequence of bureaucracy, and the belief by some resource managers that outfitters do better in shepherding their charges (to minimize damage in fragile areas), than independent travelers do. Access to float trips in the Grand Canyon is probably the most glaring example in the States of difficulty in obtaining use permits. I was unaware that the Okeefenokee was another one. Another example: The 1999 policy on Gwaii Haanas (Charlottes, BC, Canada) essentially excluded all independents during late July-early August, in favor of tour operators. Their process for 2000 is much improved, with guaranteed spots for independents, alongside similar guarantees for tour operators. In addition, the managers on Gwaii Haanas allow six "walk-in" spots each day for independents. Not exactly self-serve, but better than nothing. I don't have a "one-size-fits-all" answer for this problem. It is a consequence of too-many-of-us, mainly, and the need to have some reasonable, fair way of deciding who gets to visit cool places. Sounds like Bruce has his own solution for his clients -- more power to him! Go for it, Bruce! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: <<Another example: The 1999 policy on Gwaii Haanas (Charlottes, BC, Canada) essentially excluded all independents during late July-early August, in favor of tour operators.>> What a horrible solution! To deny someone the "right" to visit the natural wonders is, in my opinion, in huge disagreement with certain inalienable rights - i.e. the pursuit of happiness! Dave wrote: <<I don't have a "one-size-fits-all" answer for this problem. It is a consequence of too-many-of-us...>> Neither do I, but I still like to preach like I do. I hate the thought of making permits and tours so expensive that only rich people get to enjoy nature. That would be a solution...it would hardly be fair. Dave hit the nail on the head with his "too-many-of-us" bit. The world could furnish us (the human race) with everything need and want including freedom to explore if there were simply less of us. However, I am in no way volunteering to leave :-) Cheers, Dave Dave Williams dave_at_paddleasia.com http://paddleasia.com Phuket, Thailand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Bruce and all, Figuring out the carrying capacity is certainly difficult. As for the impact on wildlife, you'd have to do a "head count" of the wildlife first. This isn't easy and it's very time-consuming to do it right. Then you take a rather large number of people to the site a few times, then do another "head count". After doing this a few times, you HOPE that you're right! Luckily in the Phang Nga bay situation I referred to, the animals don't seem to be affected that much. They simply move up the cliffs or around the corner. Having said that, I could be very wrong. Perhaps they are being denied food. Perhaps the trees in fruit are few and far between and the animals need to be in the same areas where the tourists are going. It's not easy buddy. Our company has a volume limit of 6 guests. Plus, we don't go into what we consider extremely sensitive areas. We still keep records of what impact we appear to be having. Bruce wrote: << I do not approve of the current practices regarding use permits in some of our more special areas. Ex. block permitting to commercial outfitters thereby excluding independent travelers. One of the reasons that I think many people resent outfitters in general.>> Well, I hope you're wrong about people "resenting outfitters in general", but I think you're right. Permitting is a very touchy issue. Denying paddlers the opportunity to go paddling where they want and when they want is uncool to say the least. However, since we've been fruitful and multiplied, something has to be done. Permitting is one answer. Bruce wrote: <<I choose to paddle less traveled waters.>> That's the other answer! Cheers Bruce and all, Dave Dave Williams dave_at_paddleasia.com http://paddleasia.com Phuket, Thailand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<BIG SNIP> > I think that most fears relating to natural situations are irrational and >simply the result of man's disconnection with nature. > Bruce D. McCutcheon > Whole Earth Outfitters Check out these links about Gators http://www.libra-mmsystemh.demon.nl/Html/pg_why.htm http://www.gatorzone.com/ http://www.state.fl.us/fwc/whatsnew/region/gators-ne.html http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/www/agator/htm/aligator.htm http://magicnet.net/~mgodwin/ Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob enjoyed writing; >The "study", if it exists, was definitely not based on kayaks. Kayaks >is a new variation on the Yum Yum Yellow legend. > >I haven't been able to track down this legendary study, but it's not at >all likely from what I've heard that the results apply to sharks found >in Southern California waters, or to objects shaped like a kayak floating >on the surface. > >Let's please stop spreading silly rumors like this until some hard >data surfaces, ok? Can anyone actually find this so-called study in >the scientific literature, or other real scientific source? If not, I >respectfully suggest it should be treated as just another rumor/myth. > >And no, finding the story in the non-scientific media or kayaking >books doesn't count. > Hi Bob, I know this tid bit is coming from a kayaking book that you say does not count, try John Dowd's book "Sea Kayaking" a manual for long - distance touring, page 195. I relies he's just a kayaker that wrote a book and not Jacques Cousteau but on page 195 he did mention about a study that the US Navy performed dubbing one shade of yellow "yum -yum yellow. I was aware of Dowd's comment of the study prior to picking yellow for the deck color of a kayak I spent 20 days in on the open sea and I just recently purchased a "yum yum yellow "PFD. Being bit or eaten by a shark is not high on my hazards in kayaking list. If I become a scientific statistic I will make sure my next of kin notifies you. Be cooool and relax, Arthur Hebert *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob enjoyed writing; >The "study", if it exists, was definitely not based on kayaks. Kayaks >is a new variation on the Yum Yum Yellow legend. > >I haven't been able to track down this legendary study, but it's not at >all likely from what I've heard that the results apply to sharks found >in Southern California waters, or to objects shaped like a kayak floating >on the surface. > >Let's please stop spreading silly rumors like this until some hard >data surfaces, ok? Can anyone actually find this so-called study in >the scientific literature, or other real scientific source? If not, I >respectfully suggest it should be treated as just another rumor/myth. > >And no, finding the story in the non-scientific media or kayaking >books doesn't count. > Hi Bob, I know this tid bit is coming from a kayaking book that you say does not count, try John Dowd's book "Sea Kayaking" a manual for long - distance touring, page 195. I relies he's just a kayaker that wrote a book and not Jacques Cousteau but on page 195 he did mention about a study that the US Navy performed dubbing one shade of yellow "yum -yum yellow. I was aware of Dowd's comment of the study prior to picking yellow for the deck color of a kayak I spent 20 days in on the open sea and I just recently purchased a "yum yum yellow "PFD. Being bit or eaten by a shark is not high on my hazards in kayaking list. If I become a scientific statistic I will make sure my next of kin notifies you. Be cooool and relax, Arthur Hebert *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dear Bruce, Thank you for your thoughtful post ("laying bare your soul") about nature study trips and 'gators. I admire people like you (and me) who make career choices based on compatibility with their value system rather than on the opportunity to make lots of money. I don't mind the explosion of paddling, because I don't find large crowds in the places I paddle (rivers and lakes in northern/central California) and I'm glad to have a little company. The explosion is what caught me, and I enjoy meeting and communicating with others who love being on the water in a paddlecraft. BijiliE << And now that I have laid bare my soul in this embarrassingly long post, I would ask a question of the Paddlewisers. How do you feel about the explosion of this activity and does it detract from your reason for paddling? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Natalie Wiest" <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> Thanks, Natalie. This is much better than the "I read something from somewhere that said something or other" :-) <snip> > In H. David Baldridge's Shark Attack (Drake House/Hallux, Inc., 1974) page 48, <snip> > > Dr. Baldridge also discusses the work of Dr. Scott Johnson of the Navy and > Ernest McFadden of the FAA, and their observation of colors and shark attacks > in a controlled experiment in 1971. <snip> > Another book of the same era, The Book of Sharks by Richard Ellis (Grosset and > Dunlap, 1975), page 206, the author states "Color does play a role in the > study of shark repellents". He also refers to Dr. Johnson's work as above, > and refers to a "Shark Screen" that Dr. Johnson patented to protect its wearer > by using a plastic bag that interferes with the olfactory and visual senses > the shark uses to select its prey/meal. For those that do not know, Richard Ellis is a marine artists that has contributed some very wonderful drawings and paintings in collaboration with other authors on books about sharks and other marine species. In the last 25 years, a great deal more has been learned about sharks, more studies conducted. The quote I referred to from Sharks, Silent Hunters of the Deep "No conclusive experiemental evidence that sharks respond to particular colours" was printed in 1995. One of the contributors of that book, Dr. Perry Gilbert, is a senior scientist at Mote Marine Laboratory and helped to establish the Shark Attack Panel of the American Institute of Biological Sciences, funded by the US Navy and chaired that panel for several years, see the above book, pg 72. I can't say this quote is directly from him but it was Dr. Gilbert and his team of research scientists that disproved the "bubble curtain" theory, a widely publicised supposed system for repelling sharks, see Sharks, Silent Hunters of the Deep, 1995, p 137. I'm trying to hunt down more specific information and recent studies on testing various colors with sharks. I will let you know what I find out. > So, the YUM YUM YELLOW isn't just an urban legend or sea yarn - I'll > leave the rest up to your individual interpretation. The original quote was > Around here (Southern CA) we refer to that color as Yum Yum Yellow. > It seems that someone did a study concerning what color kayaks were > preferred by sharks and the two most popular colors for attacks > were yellow and then white. To which I replied that this was an urban legend (hogwash, basically). I do not know of any study conducted as described above, no one can name such a study, yet the rumor persists. I consider it an urban legend. The fact is, sharks don't prefer kayaks at all in any color or we would be hearing about a lot more attacks than the handful that now exist (especially with the explosion in popularity of the sport). And of those, I do not recall yellow as "the color of choice." Not by a long shot. The harm in perpetuating such rumors is that some folks really *will* avoid a color that is a good safety color because of this "study" that someone heard about. Also, it contributes to the myth that sharks are these indiscriminate eating machines that need to be destroyed (we actually had someone post that the only good shark was a dead shark). Some of the top predators are on endangered species list. Our oceans need them a lot more than it needs kayakers. Cheers, Jackie http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/sharks.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My 2 cents: The problem is not "Yum Yum Yellow", but can be, "Metallic Marine Munchy". >From what I've heard, flashy bright objects such as rudders can act as bait. Best paint 'em dark. Can't remember if someone brought this up yet - between posts on yummy colors and gay blades and such, I lost track. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The local lake here in central Mississippi has a few small 'gators. The largest I've seen was about 6 to 8 feet long (hard to judge since you have to come around at night to see them out of the water). Even the small ones make an incredible commotion (practically an explosion) in the water if you happen to surprise them in a situation where they decide to "escape." I've watched them watching stray dogs on shore, cruising slowly along parallel to the shore. They also seem to become much more interested in my kayak when my little dog is aboard. She gets relocated from the deck to my lap when 'gators are nearby. I've also taken to doing frequent "Crazy Ivans" when cruising home with her in the evenings when the 'gators begin to hunt. Even at that, last time out, I wasn't aware we were followed until I was loading the kayak back on the truck and noticed a suspicious bump in the water a few yards offshore. Flashing my pocket light at it returned the familiar twin yellow glows. Sasha went into the truck cab so I could finish packing up without having to keep her away from the water. Ira Adams On 9/21/99 11:37 AM gpwecho_at_juno.com (gpwecho_at_juno.com) wrote: >Alligators can be found in many places around Louisiana. Paddling around >them has not been a problem for me ...so far ! I don't mind seeing one >at a distance while he "makes a wake" to where ever it is he is going. >If the gator leaves me alone, I'll gladly reciprocate. There have been >a few times when the gator seemed not to be doing anything but "eyeing me >and/or kayak" from a beam-on position in the water. When that big head >and those eyes slowly sink, I will admit to a few anxious moments of >thinking "what's he up to now ?" >I think I landed almost on top of a basking alligator a few years ago. >The shore grass was high and thick. As I "swissshed" aground a huge >commotion roiled the water and something not small made its get-away. It >could have been a nutria but they usually are pretty wary. >The only safety precaution I know of regarding gators and water is to not >have a dog along with you. Urban legend ? ...unsure; scientific >principle ? ...unknown; good advice ? ...you bet ! Thankfully, wet >polyethylene doesn't smell like wet dog ! Hmmm ...now about these >paddling shoes ! >...adieu ...Peyton (Louisiana) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
|The local lake here in central Mississippi has a few small 'gators. The |largest I've seen was about 6 to 8 feet long (hard to judge since you |have to come around at night to see them out of the water). I hope I'm remembering the right number but you can guestimate the size of a gator by taking the length of the head out of the water by 2.5. I think it was 2.5 its been awhile since I was told this. The problem is getting the gator to hold still while you measure from the back of their head to the nose. And the nose happens to be just up from those sharp ugly teeth! 8-) So be careful doing the measuring! 8-) Truly hope this helps! Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sun, 3 Oct 1999 dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com wrote: > |The local lake here in central Mississippi has a few small 'gators. The > |largest I've seen was about 6 to 8 feet long (hard to judge since you > |have to come around at night to see them out of the water). > > I hope I'm remembering the right number but you can guestimate the size of a > gator by taking the length of the head out of the water by 2.5. I think it was > 2.5 its been awhile since I was told this. > The trick I heard was to guess the distance in inches from the eyes to the nose, then assume that's the gator's length in feet. <insert joke about blonde's desire for alligator shoes here> Steve Cramer Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
|On Sun, 3 Oct 1999 dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com wrote: > |The local lake here in central Mississippi has a few small 'gators. The > |largest I've seen was about 6 to 8 feet long (hard to judge since you > |have to come around at night to see them out of the water). > > I hope I'm remembering the right number but you can guestimate the size of a > gator by taking the length of the head out of the water by 2.5. I think it was > 2.5 its been awhile since I was told this. > |The trick I heard was to guess the distance in inches from the eyes to the |nose, then assume that's the gator's length in feet. |<insert joke about blonde's desire for alligator shoes here> |Steve Cramer I just sent a note to my father and he verified Steve's method of guestimation. My old man is a nuisence gator trapper as well as finance professor how's that for a combination! 8-) Since my old man grabs gators for fun and is better with numbers I'll withdraw the 2.5 method! LOL! So, now all you have to do is have a ruler to measure the gator's head and you can leave the calculator at home! 8-) Hope this helps... Dan SonOfATrapperMan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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