I'm considering the purchase of a new Patagonia Nemo dry top for $230. It's last year's model and comes without the gusseted collar, but with gusseted sleeves, and it's about $69 less than this year's "new and improved" version. I'm told by the retailer, an experienced whitewater kayaker, that it is the model he and others prefer. His claim is that the gasket is easier to replace in the non-collared model and the collar is basically useless. I've never used one before, but from appearance alone, his comments make sense, but I'm wondering about the collar issue. Hence, my questions to the list! Is the gusseted collar vital on a dry top? Aside from adding some protection from the elements and no doubt a bit of warmth to the neck area, does it serve any other purpose? For those owning the non-collared model, any regrets? Thanks in advance for everyone's input! Jim Tynan Pike Road AL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I prefer the extra collar, as it imparts an option to allow you to cut the latex gasket a bit looser than normal, but back-up the seal with a secondary closure. As a rule, latex seals are not very hardy, and I prefer models that have these secondary closures. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd At 11:25 AM 10/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >I'm considering the purchase of a new Patagonia Nemo dry top for $230. It's >last year's model and comes without the gusseted collar, but with gusseted >sleeves, and it's about $69 less than this year's "new and improved" >version. > >I'm told by the retailer, an experienced whitewater kayaker, that it is the >model he and others prefer. His claim is that the gasket is easier to >replace in the non-collared model and the collar is basically useless. I've >never used one before, but from appearance alone, his comments make sense, >but I'm wondering about the collar issue. Hence, my questions to the list! > >Is the gusseted collar vital on a dry top? Aside from adding some >protection from the elements and no doubt a bit of warmth to the neck area, >does it serve any other purpose? For those owning the non-collared model, >any regrets? > >Thanks in advance for everyone's input! > >Jim Tynan >Pike Road AL > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > > I prefer the extra collar, as it imparts an option to allow you to cut the > latex gasket a bit looser than normal, but back-up the seal with a > secondary closure. As a rule, latex seals are not very hardy, and I prefer > models that have these secondary closures. > > BC'in Ya > Doug Lloyd Agreed. The secondary collar also helps reduce UV damage to the latex collar by covering it up some. It also does feel warmer around the neck than cold latex. It it is a neoprene secondary collar it will do what Doug suggests, i.e. be a backup albeit at a somewhat reduced effectiveness compared to the latex one. If it is not neoprene or other stretchy material (they are using Darlexx stretchy non-absorbing material more these days) it will not be as effective. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi guys, that reminds me: If you wear a dry top with a farmer John wetsuit, how good is the seal at the waist? Are you substantially better off with a dry top than with a neoprene jacket, that is? e Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
An outer collar is very useful for when portaging through heavy bush, where snags tear latex. Cheers, Richard Culpeper Doug Lloyd wrote: > I prefer the extra collar, as it imparts an option to allow you to cut the > latex gasket a bit looser than normal, but back-up the seal with a > secondary closure. As a rule, latex seals are not very hardy, and I prefer > models that have these secondary closures. > > BC'in Ya > Doug Lloyd > > At 11:25 AM 10/10/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I'm considering the purchase of a new Patagonia Nemo dry top for $230. It's > >last year's model and comes without the gusseted collar, but with gusseted > >sleeves, and it's about $69 less than this year's "new and improved" > >version. > > > >I'm told by the retailer, an experienced whitewater kayaker, that it is the > >model he and others prefer. His claim is that the gasket is easier to > >replace in the non-collared model and the collar is basically useless. I've > >never used one before, but from appearance alone, his comments make sense, > >but I'm wondering about the collar issue. Hence, my questions to the list! > > > >Is the gusseted collar vital on a dry top? Aside from adding some > >protection from the elements and no doubt a bit of warmth to the neck area, > >does it serve any other purpose? For those owning the non-collared model, > >any regrets? > > > >Thanks in advance for everyone's input! > > > >Jim Tynan > >Pike Road AL > > > > > >*************************************************************************** > >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > >*************************************************************************** > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:31:06 -0700 >To: Elaine Harmon <eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu> >From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Patagonia's Nemo dry top > >At 04:37 PM 10/10/99 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi guys, that reminds me: If you wear a dry top with a farmer John >>wetsuit, how good is the seal at the waist? Are you substantially better >>off with a dry top than with a neoprene jacket, that is? e >> >>Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu > > >Elaine, >A dry top has advantages that far outway a normal paddling jacket with neoprene wrist seals, if that is what you are talking about. A good dry top seals at the wrists much more effectively than neoprene or velcro arrangements. For winter paddling, keeping water from entering up the sleeves is important. The neck seal is obviously better with a dry top's latex seal, rather than other arrangements, but may be a bit much for touring. A popular jacket these days has become a dry top with a good waist seal, latex wrist seals, but a regular neck seal, so providing more comfortable recreational paddling. > >For immersion protection and/or whitewater type kayaking pursuits, the better waist seal of a dry top is superior, but water will eventually get by the seal between the jacket and the Farmer Jane. A dry suit is better in this regard, as is a two piece dry suit which better mates at the waist. > >Oh, another thing to consider with dry suits: some of the newer models have zipper arrangements whereby the seated paddler can and may unzip easily due to the front entry, and drop the top portion down around your waist if things get too hot -- like when a high class female model paddles up near Ralph in NY Harbour :-) The older, rear entry dry suits did not facilitate this option. Whether this is a wise manouver is a different question. > >I don't wear a dry suit, as Vancouver Island is riddled with barnacles, and a tear in the suit, if I were to bail, could pose a serious problem, as could a blown gasket. > >While were on the subject, does anyone reading this post know about Titanium flecks in wetsuits. They are supposed to reflect more heat back to the wearer. Is this a marketing ploy, or do I need to ask? > >BC'in Ya >Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > A dry top has advantages that far outway a normal paddling jacket with > neoprene wrist seals, if that is what you are talking about. A good dry top > seals at the wrists much more effectively than neoprene or velcro > arrangements. For winter paddling, keeping water from entering up the > sleeves is important. The neck seal is obviously better with a dry top's > latex seal, rather than other arrangements, but may be a bit much for > touring. A popular jacket these days has become a dry top with a good waist > seal, latex wrist seals, but a regular neck seal, so providing more > comfortable recreational paddling. A real bargain in the latter is the Kokotat Goretex version of what is described. It has latex at the wrists with overlapped velcroed neoprene sleeve ends that helps protect the latex and gives you a backup if the latex were to rip or wear out suddenly. At the neck, this top does not have latex but rather a velcroed Darlexx adjustable collar (or its eqivalent) which is like neoprene but doesn't absorb any water into the material itself and actually provides a tighter fit than neoprene. The waist is just about as good as these waist seals can get without resorting to overlapping latex matchup with pants. It costs under $200 which is a great price for any Goretex jacket let alone one with latex wrists and all the nice features of a paddling jacket. > >Oh, another thing to consider with dry suits: some of the newer models > have zipper arrangements whereby the seated paddler can and may unzip > easily due to the front entry, and drop the top portion down around your > waist if things get too hot -- like when a high class female model paddles > up near Ralph in NY Harbour :-) Speaking of this, I was informed back channel by a friend that the regular free trip to the Statue of Liberty from the Downtown Boathouse took place yesterday despite the rain and three Swedish good looking ladies went on it. Back at the Boathouse they proceeded to strip off their wet gear to total naked right in the middle of the place. My friend, upon seeing this, walked right into the bow of a rack stored kayak. This will teach me for being a fair-weather paddler! :-) > >I don't wear a dry suit, as Vancouver Island is riddled with barnacles, > and a tear in the suit, if I were to bail, could pose a serious problem, as > could a blown gasket. I mentioned this before but as Doug knows in the early days of dry suits there was a concern that a tear would seriously compromise the suit. As far as I know, this has not been the case. The materials at one point in the European suits was almost shirt weight thin but most dry suits are made of super duper weight nylon and gaskets are generally covered except some companies not doing it at the neck. Still, I have torn paddling pants made of similar material when sitting up on a dock and hitting a jagged nail head. So....perhaps always a potential problem. I know that Jack Martin on this list advises wearing one of the Polartec watersport fleece suits under your dry suit as a second defensive layer were a drysuit to tear in its material or gasket. > > > >While were on the subject, does anyone reading this post know about > Titanium flecks in wetsuits. They are supposed to reflect more heat back to > the wearer. Is this a marketing ploy, or do I need to ask? My understanding is that it does work to a degree. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Elaine - The seal of my drytop with my farmer John is imperfect, but good enough. It doesn't allow seepage of water unless I roll, but during rolling practice a little bit of water will seep through. I'm asuming that it gets through the place where the inner bungie meets the zipper line. Still, it's a huge improvement over my normal paddling jacket, though it does tend to be hotter. - Bill Hansen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Doug Lloyd wrote: Doug wrote: <big snip>I don't wear a dry suit, as Vancouver Island is riddled with barnacles, and a tear in the suit, if I were to bail, could pose a serious problem, as could a blown gasket. Ralph commented: <snip>I mentioned this before but as Doug knows in the early days of dry suits >there was a concern that a tear would seriously compromise the suit. As >far as I know, this has not been the case. The materials at one point >in the European suits was almost shirt weight thin but most dry suits >are made of super duper weight nylon and gaskets are generally covered >except some companies not doing it at the neck. Still, I have torn >paddling pants made of similar material when sitting up on a dock and >hitting a jagged nail head. So....perhaps always a potential problem. >I know that Jack Martin on this list advises wearing one of the Polartec >watersport fleece suits under your dry suit as a second defensive layer >were a drysuit to tear in its material or gasket. Ralph has a point in that the newer drysuits are a darn sight better than the earlier versions, _if you stay with a reputable manufacturer_. Unfortunately, lightweight material models are still being made by various private label companies, usually as part of a local wetsuit companies lineup. They show up at sales from time to time, at bargain prices. Some companies produce far superior drysuits than other, so buyer beware. My point was that it is still an issue in your immersion protection strategy - think through your intended use, will the suit stand up to normal wear and tear, does in have reinforced knee protection for kneeling on the beach while loading your boat, is the seat area reinforced, etc. What are you going to do if it does leak. Still, I'd rather have newbies picking up cheap suits, rather than have them out there in the usual garb of boots, fleece, and rain pants, at least as far as off season paddling is concerned. But as always, do whatever the heck you want (flame prevention disclaimer). BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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