Thought maybe I'd post this here also... Woody -----Original Message----- From: owner-CPAKayaker_at_lists.shire.net [mailto:owner-CPAKayaker_at_lists.shire.net] On Behalf Of Robert Woodard Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:39 PM To: CPAKayaker Subject: [CPAKayaker] Coast Guard National Boating Safety Advisory Council I was reading though the minutes of the 63rd meeting of the National Boating Safety Advisory Council, and found the text peppered with reference to Canoe and kayaks. I extracted a big chunk of it from the presentation given by ACA, but the rest of the report had a lot of concerns about canoe/kayak deaths. This makes me wonder how far regulation is away... Full text can be found at: http://www.uscgboating.org/nbsac/63min_final.doc CANOE AND KAYAK SAFETY ISSUES Ms. Wing Watson, Director of Safety, Education, and Instruction, American Canoe Association indicated that the American Canoe Association was founded in 1880. It is the largest nonprofit organization that promotes paddle sports, representing canoeing, kayaking, coastal kayaking and rafting, and currently has 35,000 members in 180 local affiliated clubs and handles 300-500 sanctioned events. She said that the mission of ACA is to promote canoeing, kayaking and other paddle sports as safe and enjoyable lifetime recreational activities. She noted that the main theme is education. At this point she showed video on the extreme side of canoeing and kayaking. She indicated that more people are trying it, extending their efforts and testing their abilities. She commended the canoe and kayaking industry for keeping up with the trends to try to make the sport as safe as possible. Mr. Potter asked if there was anything, including peer pressure at the point of sale, to prevent a want-to-be from going out and buying that equipment and trying the extreme stuff. Ms. Watson said that the ACA wants them to have the right equipment, and doesn't want to prohibit anyone from getting the any type of boat or paddle or helmet. The ACA works with manufacturers, and has a licensing program where a manufacturer buys memberships in ACA and puts those memberships in their boats so they can get people in the loop as one way to attack that. Ms. Ajootian asked if there were any restrictions at rental places in whitewater areas, and if there were any education requirements. Ms. Watson said that there were no restrictions for renting, and added that not many outfitters rent kayaks. Continuing the presentation, Ms. Watson said that the departments of ACA are Safety, Education and Instruction; Waterway Access; Law Enforcement; and Programs and Special Events. The focus is on safety, education and instruction. There are 3000 instructors nationwide, instructor trainers and certification workshops. There are also books, brochures and videos. She then discussed the different types of waters they deal with, i.e., quietwater (flatwater), openwater and whitewater, and what ACA does to minimize risk. She discussed the safety concerns for all waters including, how to avoid capsizing; need for PFD wear; and dealing with air and water temperature, weather conditions and wind. For openwater, surf zones and tides and currents are also concerns; additionally with coastal kayaking, there is a navigation issue. She said that ACA reaches people through clubs, manufacturers and Web sites. Mr. Marie said that coastal kayakers can't be seen. He said it is going to become a real issue, and possibly a pole with a flag should be a requirement. Ms. Watson said that they tell their students to give working vessels the right of way and also highlight the visibility issue. She next discussed whitewater, indicating that there are more hazards to deal with, including swimming conditions, strainers, undercuts, lowhead dams, holes, entrapments, and pinning. She said that ACA addresses a lot of the whitewater issues through swiftwater rescue which is key, unfortunately not many people take the courses. She said that there are about 75 instructors certified through ACA. She said that the ACA rescue course deals with the equipment they have, and she showed rescue equipment used in the swiftwater course. She commented that ACA's "Paddler" magazine covers a lot of issues. At this point she showed "Heads Up," a swiftwater rescue video made under a Coast Guard grant to ACA. She said that one concern with swiftwater rescue is working with firemen and rescue squads due to different philosophies; they have equipment and ACA has knowledge of the river. She said that there is concern with more boaters going on rivers now, there are more people, more accidents. A study done in 1996 found that 24 million were canoeing and kayaking. They also called outfitters and retail stores and found canoes and kayaks sales up by 14 %. Mr. Blackistone said that this sport is growing and there are no requirements for education or flags as for skiers and he had some concerns about safety in the sport. He noted that so much attention has been focused on PWC and power boating. He said that safety in rental operations and mandatory education were issues. Chairman Muldoon said these were excellent points and he would talk about reactivating the Education Subcommittee. Dr. Campbell said that the profile of the whitewater participant would be different from small boat users, and indicated that developing profiles of different type of boaters would be of value. Ms. Watson said that there are a wide variety of profiles in her sport, and developing profiles would be challenging. One market to target would be the extreme boater to get them to know their limits. Mr. Potter said that an immediate concern would be mandatory wear of PFDs, particularly during cold weather months. Major Rhinehart asked if there were any statistics that indicate the difference between accidents and fatalities that occur in floods as opposed to regular recreation. Ms. Watson said she had seen some statistics in her organization's river safety report, but not a lot on floodwaters. Chairman Muldoon asked where the increased fatalities are coming from. Ms. Watson said from both ends of the spectrum, beginners and experts pushing their limits. She said that ACA has developed new courses to address this issue, including an advanced whitewater course that teach judgment skills. Ms. Sewell asked where ACA gets its statistics. Ms. Watson said from people who call in, and that a small network of people input into the statistics. They need to make more effort, possibly through an ad in "Paddler" magazine to get input on what is happening out there. Captain Holmes said that ACA member Charles Walbridge, writes a river anthology with detailed narratives of accidents. He said that he has seen extreme ends of spectrum in these, and they are not complete numbers. Major Dill asked if ACA has a position on state registration of canoes. Ms. Watson said that she needs to find out more about the registration process. Major Rhinehart commented about dangers of rescues in a flood situation and noted that an officer was lost in his state last year. Ms. Watson offered to provide further information, and said there are a variety of committees. She recommended the ACA Web site www.aca-paddler.org. Chairman Muldoon commented that this is part of boating that is probably way ahead of attempts to try and regulate it, and it needs to be looked at. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CPAKayaker is brought to you by the Chesapeake Paddlers Association, furthering the sport of kayaking in the Chesapeake Bay area. For information about membership, please contact Mike Hughes, at Mike.Hughes_at_pressroom.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There is something I don't understand about the ACA. If they are so concerned about kayaker safety why do they award coastal kayak instructor certificates without putting the candidates in coastal waters? John Winskill ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Woodard <woodardr_at_tidalwave.net> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 6:49 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: [CPAKayaker] Coast Guard National Boating Safety Advisory Council > Thought maybe I'd post this here also... > > Woody > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-CPAKayaker_at_lists.shire.net > [mailto:owner-CPAKayaker_at_lists.shire.net] On Behalf Of Robert Woodard > Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:39 PM > To: CPAKayaker > Subject: [CPAKayaker] Coast Guard National Boating Safety Advisory > Council > > > I was reading though the minutes of the 63rd meeting of the National Boating > Safety Advisory Council, and found the text peppered with reference to Canoe > and kayaks. I extracted a big chunk of it from the presentation given by > ACA, but the rest of the report had a lot of concerns about canoe/kayak > deaths. This makes me wonder how far regulation is away... > > Full text can be found at: > > http://www.uscgboating.org/nbsac/63min_final.doc > > > > CANOE AND KAYAK SAFETY ISSUES > > Ms. Wing Watson, Director of Safety, Education, and Instruction, American > Canoe Association indicated that the American Canoe Association was founded > in 1880. It is the largest nonprofit organization that promotes paddle > sports, representing canoeing, kayaking, coastal kayaking and rafting, and > currently has 35,000 members in 180 local affiliated clubs and handles > 300-500 sanctioned events. She said that the mission of ACA is to promote > canoeing, kayaking and other paddle sports as safe and enjoyable lifetime > recreational activities. She noted that the main theme is education. At > this point she showed video on the extreme side of canoeing and kayaking. > She indicated that more people are trying it, extending their efforts and > testing their abilities. She commended the canoe and kayaking industry for > keeping up with the trends to try to make the sport as safe as possible. > > Mr. Potter asked if there was anything, including peer pressure at the point > of sale, to prevent a want-to-be from going out and buying that equipment > and trying the extreme stuff. > > Ms. Watson said that the ACA wants them to have the right equipment, and > doesn't want to prohibit anyone from getting the any type of boat or paddle > or helmet. The ACA works with manufacturers, and has a licensing program > where a manufacturer buys memberships in ACA and puts those memberships in > their boats so they can get people in the loop as one way to attack that. > > Ms. Ajootian asked if there were any restrictions at rental places in > whitewater areas, and if there were any education requirements. > > Ms. Watson said that there were no restrictions for renting, and added that > not many outfitters rent kayaks. > > Continuing the presentation, Ms. Watson said that the departments of ACA are > Safety, Education and Instruction; Waterway Access; Law Enforcement; and > Programs and Special Events. The focus is on safety, education and > instruction. There are 3000 instructors nationwide, instructor trainers and > certification workshops. There are also books, brochures and videos. She > then discussed the different types of waters they deal with, i.e., > quietwater (flatwater), openwater and whitewater, and what ACA does to > minimize risk. She discussed the safety concerns for all waters including, > how to avoid capsizing; need for PFD wear; and dealing with air and water > temperature, weather conditions and wind. For openwater, surf zones and > tides and currents are also concerns; additionally with coastal kayaking, > there is a navigation issue. She said that ACA reaches people through clubs, > manufacturers and Web sites. > > Mr. Marie said that coastal kayakers can't be seen. He said it is going to > become a real issue, and possibly a pole with a flag should be a > requirement. > > Ms. Watson said that they tell their students to give working vessels the > right of way and also highlight the visibility issue. > She next discussed whitewater, indicating that there are more hazards to > deal with, including swimming conditions, strainers, undercuts, lowhead > dams, holes, entrapments, and pinning. She said that ACA addresses a lot of > the whitewater issues through swiftwater rescue which is key, unfortunately > not many people take the courses. She said that there are about 75 > instructors certified through ACA. She said that the ACA rescue course > deals with the equipment they have, and she showed rescue equipment used in > the swiftwater course. She commented that ACA's "Paddler" magazine covers a > lot of issues. At this point she showed "Heads Up," a swiftwater rescue > video made under a Coast Guard grant to ACA. She said that one concern with > swiftwater rescue is working with firemen and rescue squads due to different > philosophies; they have equipment and ACA has knowledge of the river. She > said that there is concern with more boaters going on rivers now, there are > more people, more accidents. A study done in 1996 found that 24 million > were canoeing and kayaking. They also called outfitters and retail stores > and found canoes and kayaks sales up by 14 %. > > Mr. Blackistone said that this sport is growing and there are no > requirements for education or flags as for skiers and he had some concerns > about safety in the sport. He noted that so much attention has been focused > on PWC and power boating. He said that safety in rental operations and > mandatory education were issues. > > Chairman Muldoon said these were excellent points and he would talk about > reactivating the Education Subcommittee. > > Dr. Campbell said that the profile of the whitewater participant would be > different from small boat users, and indicated that developing profiles of > different type of boaters would be of value. > > Ms. Watson said that there are a wide variety of profiles in her sport, and > developing profiles would be challenging. One market to target would be the > extreme boater to get them to know their limits. > > Mr. Potter said that an immediate concern would be mandatory wear of PFDs, > particularly during cold weather months. > > Major Rhinehart asked if there were any statistics that indicate the > difference between accidents and fatalities that occur in floods as opposed > to regular recreation. > > Ms. Watson said she had seen some statistics in her organization's river > safety report, but not a lot on floodwaters. > > Chairman Muldoon asked where the increased fatalities are coming from. > > Ms. Watson said from both ends of the spectrum, beginners and experts > pushing their limits. She said that ACA has developed new courses to > address this issue, including an advanced whitewater course that teach > judgment skills. > > Ms. Sewell asked where ACA gets its statistics. > > Ms. Watson said from people who call in, and that a small network of people > input into the statistics. They need to make more effort, possibly through > an ad in "Paddler" magazine to get input on what is happening out there. > > Captain Holmes said that ACA member Charles Walbridge, writes a river > anthology with detailed narratives of accidents. He said that he has seen > extreme ends of spectrum in these, and they are not complete numbers. > > Major Dill asked if ACA has a position on state registration of canoes. > > Ms. Watson said that she needs to find out more about the registration > process. > > Major Rhinehart commented about dangers of rescues in a flood situation and > noted that an officer was lost in his state last year. > > Ms. Watson offered to provide further information, and said there are a > variety of committees. She recommended the ACA Web site > www.aca-paddler.org. > > Chairman Muldoon commented that this is part of boating that is probably way > ahead of attempts to try and regulate it, and it needs to be looked at. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > CPAKayaker is brought to you by the Chesapeake Paddlers Association, > furthering the sport of kayaking in the Chesapeake Bay area. For > information about membership, please contact Mike Hughes, at > Mike.Hughes_at_pressroom.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > Major Dill asked if ACA has a position on state registration of canoes. > > > > Ms. Watson said that she needs to find out more about the registration > > process. Does anyone know what registration has to do with safety? I'm not trying to be a smarta**, I'm just failing to see the connection. Is it so they can get a handle on how many canoes/kayaks are out there so they can put the accident rates in perspective? Confused, Woody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Regarding registration, It is just revenue collection and nothing more. In California over 1/2 of boating deaths occur in the San Joachin/Sacramento River Delta. Virtually all were registered boats -- canoes and kayaks are not very active there. Registration does not equal safety. In the article Julio posted today, it was UNregistered surf kayakers rescuing the victim from a registered boat. Luckily most canoe and kayak organizations are resisting registration successfully. Actually a safety measure that might benefit would be spot checks at launch ramps, for life jackets. The great majority of Delta drownings involve alcohol, families and no life jackets. Now a question - are any states enforcing registration for canoes and kayaks? My dad cautioned me not to take my canoe out on Lake Washington because he was sure Washington State requires registration. I doubted him & I went anyhow and had, well, 2 good days out of 3. (The third day turned from a beautiful Seattle day to pouring cold rain in the time it took to make the 2.5 mile crossing. I looked for all the world like I had fallen out of the boat.) I recall it rained even on the registered boats. :-) jerry. At 07:33 PM 10/12/1999 -0400, Robert Woodard wrote: >> > Major Dill asked if ACA has a position on state registration of canoes. >> > >> > Ms. Watson said that she needs to find out more about the registration >> > process. > >Does anyone know what registration has to do with safety? I'm not trying to >be a smarta**, I'm just failing to see the connection. Is it so they can get >a handle on how many canoes/kayaks are out there so they can put the >accident rates in perspective? > >Confused, > >Woody > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Regarding registration, > > It is just revenue collection and nothing more. This makes sense, and leads me to ponder another thing or two: Why the high interest in revenue collection from canoes/kayaks? Is this to offset the potential increase in enforcing some yet unwritten canoe/kayak regulations? New safety programs? What do others think about canoe/kayak registration if the revenues were used for what I just mentioned? Woody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert Woodard wrote (in response to Jerry's provocative charge): > > > Regarding registration, > > It is just revenue collection and nothing more. > > This makes sense, and leads me to ponder another thing or two: > > Why the high interest in revenue collection from canoes/kayaks? Is this to > offset the potential increase in enforcing some yet unwritten canoe/kayak > regulations? New safety programs? Maybe yes, maybe no. See below. > What do others think about canoe/kayak registration if the revenues were > used for what I just mentioned? Not much. However, if the money is spent on developing and maintaining water access points and/or campsites, then I'm for it. We have to face facts: in many of the "settled" parts of our paddling domain, access is not improving, and in many places, it is disappearing. We need to become a political force to help keep our access. Regarding registration revenue, here's what happens in Oregon: power boaters (and other craft larger than 17 feet, IIRC) pay a reg fee, *and there is a tax on fuel sold for marine uses.* The reg fee provides a small revenue stream to the State Marine Board, while the fuel tax provides a humongous revenue stream to the Board. No way the (reasonable) registration fees from all the canoes and kayaks in Oregon can even touch the latter, but IF yakkers and canoeists had *some* part of the revenue stream, then we would have a leg to stand on in the discussions and plans leading to development/repair of access points. As it stands now, power boaters are in the driver's seat (naturally), and paddlers' needs are largely ignored. If we continue to keep our heads underwater, we are likely to get swamped out of existence. I'd like to see a sandy beach as part of every "launch ramp" plan, as our part of the deal. We have no clout now, but would have some clout if we paid $20/year. And be realistic: is $20/year a significant cost relative to all the *other* costs associated with paddling? How could we object to that if the money were spent on stuff to improve paddling? Regarding "some as yet unwritten canoe/kayak regulations ...," I'm as opposed as anybody else to unneeded regulations. As the previously posted excerpt from the ACA discussion points out, however, we need to be aggressive in preventing the "good folks" who will protect us from ourselves from legislating ridiculous safety restrictions on our sport. Climbers (so far) are not controlled by such stuff, and the potential for injury while lead climbing on rock is much greater than for even WW paddlers. If that is the direction registration fees go, then I will oppose them. If the (reasonable) registration fees go to improve paddling access, I am for them. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>What do others think about canoe/kayak registration if the revenues were used for what I just mentioned? >snip.... new safety programs, enforcing yet unwritten regulations... There has been a lot of rumbling in Florida about registration of canoes and kayaks for a couple of years now. Being located in north Florida we see a number of out of state boats here for the weekend, week or even an entire season. My questions are these, 1) Is it fair to charge the resident a registration fee and not the visitor? 2) Should a low impact vessel (canoe/kayak) pay the same registration fee as a high impact vessel (powerboat/PWC) ? 3)Should multiple boat owners of canoes/kayaks, who may only use a boat once or twice a year, pay for multiple registrations? 4) What do you get for your money? And lastly 5) Is someone monitoring this group and will our several postings be misconstrued as the consensus of the paddling population at large? Bruce Whole Earth Outfitters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: Reeves, Debbie >I believe Pennsylvania requires all canoes and kayaks to be registered and I >hear they are very active in enforcing it even off-season. > This entire thread will probably open a Major can of worms. Pennsylvania's case is a complicated one. If you use any PA Fish & Boating Access, you must have your boat registered. Period. No exceptions. At all times. However, you don't need to be registered to use most Dept of Conservation & Natural Resources Parks, etc., with a few glaring exceptions. Paddlers on the Yough must pay a fee to use the park. ONLY paddlers, not hikers, not mountain bikers. There is also a sticker and permit system to use their Lakes, however. If you have the F&B sticker then this supersedes theirs. Then, on top of that, some counties require a sticker for Their waters! Again, though, this is superseded by the F&B sticker. Finally, there are some municipalities or government entities that are even tougher than that. Green Lane reservoir requires a $45 permit. It's annual. If you bring a boat it must be stored there WITHOUT going into the water for some weeks. Somehow they've become paranoid about Zebra Mussels or other alien intruders. If you take your boat somewhere else, you must once again put the boat in quarantine before you can put it in the water. I am a New Jersey resident, and NJ does not require any registration for human powered boats less than 16 ft in length. PA supposedly has a reciprocity agreement with NJ. If I had NJ registration, no problem. But since there isn't one, I Must have my boat registered in PA to use it on F&B accesses. Supposedly these funds go for safety programs and access improvement. To be fair, PA F&B has a pretty good safety program and they produce things in conjunction with ACA that are of great help. On the other hand, paddlers are consistently losing access to some F&B regulated streams in PA, and nothing whatever is being done. -- Even though these same streams still retain access for fishermen.... JP *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
No particular opinion to express here, just some relevant humor. Then again, since I do find it funny maybe I do have an opinion. I'll have to think about it. Not original, author unknown to me. If Noah lived in the United States today... And the Lord spoke to Noah and said, "In one year, I am going to make it rain and cover the whole earth with water until all flesh is destroyed. But I want you to save the righteous people and two of every kind of living thing on earth. Therefore, I am commanding you to build an Ark." In a flash of lightning, God delivered the specifications for an Ark. In fear and trembling, Noah took the plans and agreed to build the ark. "Remember," said the Lord, "You must complete the Ark and bring everything aboard in one year. Exactly one year later, fierce storm clouds covered the earth and all the seas of the earth went into a tumult. The Lord saw that Noah was sitting in his front yard weeping. "Noah," he shouted. "Where is the Ark?" "Lord, please forgive me," cried Noah. "I did my best, but there were big problems." "First, I had to get a permit for construction, and your plans did not meet the codes. I had to hire an engineering firm and redraw the plans. Then I got into a fight with OSHA over whether or not the Ark needed a sprinkler system and approved floatation devices." "Then, my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning ordinances by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planning commission." "Then, I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark, because there was a ban on cutting trees to protect the Spotted Owl. I finally convinced the U. S. Forest Service that I really needed the wood to save the owls. However, the Fish and Wildlife Service won't let me catch any owls. So, no owls." "The carpenters formed a union and went on strike. I had to negotiate a settlement with the National Labor Relations Board before anyone would pick up a saw or hammer. Now, I have 16 carpenters on the Ark, but still no owls." "When I started rounding up the other animals, an animal rights group sued me. They objected to me taking only two of each kind aboard. Just when I got the suit dismissed, the EPA notified me that I could not complete the Ark without filing an environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn't take very kindly to the idea that they had no jurisdiction over the conduct of the Creator of the Universe. Then, the Army Corps of Engineers demanded a map of the proposed new flood plain. I sent them a globe." "Right now, I am trying to resolve a complaint filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission that I am practicing discrimination by not taking godless, unbelieving people aboard." "The IRS has seized my assets, claiming that I'm building the Ark in preparation to flee the country to avoid paying taxes. I just got a notice from the state that I owe them some kind of user tax and failed to register the Ark as a 'recreational water craft'." "And finally, the ACLU got the courts to issue an injunction against further construction of the Ark, saying that since God is flooding the earth, it's a religious event, and, therefore, unconstitutional. I really don't think I can finish the Ark for another five or six years." Noah waited. The sky began to clear, the sun began to shine, and the seas began to calm. A rainbow arched across the sky. Noah looked up hopefully. "You mean you're not going to destroy the earth, Lord?" "No," he said sadly. I don't have to. The government already has." Steve Freund QCC Kayaks (888) 794-3887 http://www.qcckayaks.com <http://www.qcckayaks.com> [demime 0.92b removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Actually that is a good point too. Everytime there is a death money gets spent and so the governing bodies want the industries to pitch in. You know how State Parks had the serious budget cut last year, although I heard they had an increase this year. Enforcement and stuff has become a larger part of their job. On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Robert Woodard wrote: > > Regarding registration, > > > > It is just revenue collection and nothing more. > > This makes sense, and leads me to ponder another thing or two: > > Why the high interest in revenue collection from canoes/kayaks? Is this to > offset the potential increase in enforcing some yet unwritten canoe/kayak > regulations? New safety programs? What do others think about canoe/kayak > registration if the revenues were used for what I just mentioned? > > Woody > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > Andree Hurley Hurley Design Communications - ICQ# 27469637 On-line Editor - http://www.canoekayak.com Other Kayaking - http://www.onwatersports.com Web Sites for Specialty Businesses - http://www.viewit.com/HDC/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I believe Pennsylvania requires all canoes and kayaks to be registered and I hear they are very active in enforcing it even off-season. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ > ---------- > From: Jerry Hawkins[SMTP:jhawkins_at_cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 8:03 PM > To: Robert Woodard; Paddlewise > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Registration and Safety > > Regarding registration, > > It is just revenue collection and nothing more. In California over 1/2 of > boating deaths occur in the San Joachin/Sacramento River Delta. Virtually > all were registered boats -- canoes and kayaks are not very active there. > Registration does not equal safety. In the article Julio posted today, it > was UNregistered surf kayakers rescuing the victim from a registered boat. > Luckily most canoe and kayak organizations are resisting registration > successfully. > > Actually a safety measure that might benefit would be spot checks at > launch ramps, for life jackets. The great majority of Delta drownings > involve alcohol, families and no life jackets. > > Now a question - are any states enforcing registration for canoes and > kayaks? My dad cautioned me not to take my canoe out on Lake Washington > because he was sure Washington State requires registration. I doubted him > & I went anyhow and had, well, 2 good days out of 3. (The third day > turned from a beautiful Seattle day to pouring cold rain in the time it > took to make the 2.5 mile crossing. I looked for all the world like I had > fallen out of the boat.) I recall it rained even on the registered boats. > :-) > > jerry. > > At 07:33 PM 10/12/1999 -0400, Robert Woodard wrote: > >> > Major Dill asked if ACA has a position on state registration of > canoes. > >> > > >> > Ms. Watson said that she needs to find out more about the > registration > >> > process. > > > >Does anyone know what registration has to do with safety? I'm not trying > to > >be a smarta**, I'm just failing to see the connection. Is it so they can > get > >a handle on how many canoes/kayaks are out there so they can put the > >accident rates in perspective? > > > >Confused, > > > >Woody > > > > > >************************************************************************* > ** > >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and > not > >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > >************************************************************************* > ** > > > ************************************************************************** > * > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and > not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************** > * > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Robert Woodard" <woodardr_at_tidalwave.net> wrote: >Why the high interest in revenue collection from canoes/kayaks? Is this to >offset the potential increase in enforcing some yet unwritten canoe/kayak >regulations? New safety programs? What do others think about canoe/kayak >registration if the revenues were used for what I just mentioned? I think it's a fair idea if it's used solely for safety programs. I don't think we need any (more) regulations. However, we all know that the majority of fees will go to administration and then only token safety programs would be offered. I also don't want a big "dorky looking" hull number on the bow of my boat. A little sticker, perhaps, but no big ugly number. Shawn -- 0 © 1999 ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Shawn W. Baker 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn said, "I also don't want a big "dorky looking" hull number on the bow of my boat. A little sticker, perhaps, but no big ugly number." Yet another benefit for Ralph and his bag-boaters! They can have their hulls embroidered! A little Venetian lace, maybe hi-viz thread --- almost makes me want to go buy a Klepper! Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > Yet another benefit for Ralph and his bag-boaters! They can have > their hulls embroidered! "Ralph's Bag-Boaters"!!!! I love it. Ralph, we HAVE to get some T-shirts made. e Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yes - I was on the Washington State Parks Safety Council representing manually powered boats for three years. Each year the set of statistics on boating accidents would come out and someone would note that unregisterd boats under around 20' were showing increased deaths. This would include canoes, kayaks and rafts. There were always a couple of people who wanted to register them so that they would show up more often in the statistics as they felt alot of it wasn't reported. We managed to keep the state out of governing rafting totally, and while they were setting standards for rafting we kept the kayaks out of that. Ironically when Rich Weiss died on the White Salmon he was tabulated as a WA statistic. One fellow on the council always wants to regulate whitewater and constantly sites the recklessness of paddlers who are always going under logs. I used to stand up and try to point to the ACA or retail shops who were educating the public from their end. So... > be a smarta**, I'm just failing to see the connection. Is it so they can get > a handle on how many canoes/kayaks are out there so they can put the > accident rates in perspective? > > Confused, > > Woody > Writing an article? Andree Hurley Hurley Design Communications - ICQ# 27469637 On-line Editor - http://www.canoekayak.com Other Kayaking - http://www.onwatersports.com Web Sites for Specialty Businesses - http://www.viewit.com/HDC/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Yes - I was on the Washington State Parks Safety Council representing > manually powered boats for three years. > Writing an article? Nah, just trying to educate myself so I can make more informed decisions on what to, or not to, support. Thanks, Woody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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