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From: Joe Brzoza <joebr_at_burton.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:38:22 -0400
Luckily I have an OLD Yakima rack so I don't seem to have this problem.  But
my fiancée' does.  Her bars seem to slip more between the towers and the
bars, than between the bars and the clips.  So the oily bar explanation may
make sense for that.  

As far as the Hully Rollers slipping, could it be that they offer more
leverage against the clip than the saddles do?  I was looking at the clips
the other day and I noticed that they differ from the old style.  The new
ones have "tabs" on the inside that meet together when the nut is tightened.
I'm wondering if you filed the tabs down would it let you clamp the bar
tighter?  Anyone try this?



-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Kruger [mailto:dkruger_at_pacifier.com]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 8:17 PM
To: PaddleWise
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack


huck wrote:

> I just purchased a new Metro and had a full Yakima rack [snip]
> As I was pricing out the rack in the store, I was talking to a salesman
> (friend of mine) and he mentioned that the Yakima rep was in the store. So
I
> hunted him down to question him about the rack problems we have discussed
on
> the list. He has explanations for both the slippery bars and the
roller/dent
> problems.
> 
>  1. The slipping bars are caused by a high oil content in the synthetic
bar
> coating. When you clamp it down, you squeeze out the oil. This problem was
> corrected in 96 so the last of the oily bars should have left all stores
by
> 97-98. If your problematic bars are older than that, you can buy new ones.
Or,
> if you are looking for a cheap slippage correction, cut away the plastic
> coating by your towers and replace with a thick layer of masking tape. He
said
> this works great.

AFAICT, this explanation from the Yakima rep is bogus.  I bought my last set
of bars from Alder Creek in Portland, OR, out of new stock, shipped to them
in
early '99.  The Hully Rollers slipped madly on the bar until I
contact-cemented 220 grit wet-or-dry emery paper on the inside of the
clamps. 
I think the clamps are the problem -- they do not grip the bar tightly
enough
-- and it is a design flaw (the designers are in the US), not something
Yakima
can blame on their manufacturing side (now in Mexico).  Evidence:  the
clamps
for the TLC saddles (same purchase event, same set of bars) work fine.

[Sorry to hear of the miscarriage of justice, Phil -- sounds like someone
has
it in for you.  That's the kind of harrassment no one needs.]

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Reeves, Debbie (Debbie) <"Reeves,>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:40:48 -0400
I'm with Dave on this one.  I purchased mine 12/98.  How wonderful of the
company to recommend that we consumers fix their product.  By the way, by
stripping off the plastic coating, several people in our group have had
their bars rust.

Debbie Reeves

> ----------
> From: 	Dave Kruger[SMTP:dkruger_at_pacifier.com]
> 
> huck wrote:
> 
> > I just purchased a new Metro and had a full Yakima rack [snip]
> > As I was pricing out the rack in the store, I was talking to a salesman
> > (friend of mine) and he mentioned that the Yakima rep was in the store.
> So I
> > hunted him down to question him about the rack problems we have
> discussed on
> > the list. He has explanations for both the slippery bars and the
> roller/dent
> > problems.
> > 
> >  1. The slipping bars are caused by a high oil content in the synthetic
> bar
> > coating. When you clamp it down, you squeeze out the oil. This problem
> was
> > corrected in 96 so the last of the oily bars should have left all stores
> by
> > 97-98. If your problematic bars are older than that, you can buy new
> ones. Or,
> > if you are looking for a cheap slippage correction, cut away the plastic
> > coating by your towers and replace with a thick layer of masking tape.
> He said
> > this works great.
> 
> AFAICT, this explanation from the Yakima rep is bogus.  I bought my last
> set
> of bars from Alder Creek in Portland, OR, out of new stock, shipped to
> them in
> early '99.  The Hully Rollers slipped madly on the bar until I
> contact-cemented 220 grit wet-or-dry emery paper on the inside of the
> clamps. 
> I think the clamps are the problem -- they do not grip the bar tightly
> enough
> -- and it is a design flaw (the designers are in the US), not something
> Yakima
> can blame on their manufacturing side (now in Mexico).  Evidence:  the
> clamps
> for the TLC saddles (same purchase event, same set of bars) work fine.
> 
> [Sorry to hear of the miscarriage of justice, Phil -- sounds like someone
> has
> it in for you.  That's the kind of harrassment no one needs.]
> 
> -- 
> Dave Kruger
> Astoria, OR
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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:10:55 -0700
Reeves, Debbie (Debbie) wrote:
> 
> I'm with Dave on this one.  I purchased mine 12/98.  How wonderful of the
> company to recommend that we consumers fix their product.  By the way, by
> stripping off the plastic coating, several people in our group have had
> their bars rust.
> 
> Debbie Reeves

I often have wondered why people, when faced with round vs. square,
continue to get the round ones, i.e. Yakimas as opposed to Thules.  The
square bars can't roll and they also seem to tighten better inside the
towers, at least from my own experience and observation of others.

(Also, a square bar is stronger than a round one, I believe, of the same
dimensions and wall thickness.  At least that is true when comparing
round vs. square stringers in folding kayaks.  Arguably the toughest
frames are of the latter type, i.e. boats like the Feathercraft Short
Touring and their K-2 which have square long tubes as opposed to the
round ones of their other models.)

>From what I have seen of the roof rack bars, both Thule and Yakima
pretty much match up in price, offer similar specialized accessories and
an array of kits for fitting to different cars.  The only difference
that I detected early on, and this may have changed, is that the kayak
saddles on the Thules were harder to change width adjustments on than
with the Yakima ones.  I once was renting and borrowing hardshells as
well as putting assembled foldables of various models on my Thule rack
and using the saddles.  The adjustments to accomodate different widths
of boats were a pain in the butt; the Yakima saddles looked easier. 
Perhaps this has changed for the Thule ones.  My solution was to retire
the saddles (I eventually sent them gratis to Jack Martin last year when
he was looking to buy a pair; perhaps that is why he doesn't pick on me
:-)) and I switched over to the windsurfer type pads that fit on Thule
or Yakima bars and this eliminated any need for adjustment for different
widths.

My experience with these pads and their doing no damage to any boat is
part of my reason for confidence in the portable roof pad setup I am
using now with rental cars.  If anything, those pads are even better
than the windsurfer ones in that they have a bit of shape to them and
will support more of a kayak's curved surface.  Their are two widths. 
The smaller one looks idea for kayaks with sharper V hulls; the wider
one for more rounded bottoms or wider kayaks such as doubles and
foldable singles.  The wider one also has a wider opening at the bottom
which looks like will fit easily around factory roof racks and so could
be used with them...we did discuss this last week I think.

ralph diaz
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Elaine Harmon <eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:59:02 -0400 (EDT)
Hi, where do you get these pads?

Also, a bit back you recommended putting reflective tape on the paddle
blade backs. What tape do you recommend; source? Is it by chance metallic
so there might be some (slight, I realize) chance at radar reflection?

Thanks for the info, as usual. e

Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu


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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:36:44 -0700
Elaine Harmon wrote:
> 
> Hi, where do you get these pads?
> 
> Also, a bit back you recommended putting reflective tape on the paddle
> blade backs. What tape do you recommend; source? Is it by chance metallic
> so there might be some (slight, I realize) chance at radar reflection?
> 
> Thanks for the info, as usual. e
> 
> Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu

The pads are sold by Yakima and Thule and come in two versions, one with
a slit along the bottom (that allows you to slip the pad on to the rack
bar) and one with no slit (which means you need to place them on the
rack via the end which means removal from the towers, etc. a pain in the
arse).  The pads are also often sold by paddling shops with their logo,
phone number etc. on them.  One of the best I had, and which never wore
out due to UV damage (I never took the pads off the rack and parked
outdoors) was from Jersey Paddler.  They are longer and covered with an
acrylic material that beats the nylon covers normally used by Thule and
Yakima.  Same price, i.e. $18 -20 a pair.

As for reflective tape for placement on paddles, this is sold in squares
at kayak and marine shops and are self-adhesive.  ACR is one brand.  Mine
have stuck well for almost 2 years now with no peeling off.  The paddle
blades are black and that is why I used the tape.  I plan at some point
to also paint the blades dayglo green (putting masking tape over the
reflective panels before applying the paint).  What a combination that
would be dayglo paint sections framing reflective panels in the center!

They look metallic but I doubt there is much metal in them.  Certainly
not enough to show on radar screens.


ralph
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:21:23 -0400
Elaine Harmon wrote:
> 
> Also, a bit back you recommended putting reflective tape on the paddle
> blade backs. What tape do you recommend; source? 

3M Scotchlite tape is good.  Very bright and the adhesive backing 
sticks quite well.  Available in several colors and widths.  I can 
get it around here, by the foot, from several outdoor shops as well
as bike shops.  Some fabric stores have the sew-on type if you want 
to dress up your PFD (it's not legal though) or paddling clothes.

Mike
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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:36:35 -0700
Joe Brzoza wrote:

> As far as the Hully Rollers slipping, could it be that they offer more
> leverage against the clip than the saddles do? 

Yeah, I think that's part of the problem.

> I was looking at the clips
> the other day and I noticed that they differ from the old style.  The new
> ones have "tabs" on the inside that meet together when the nut is tightened.
> I'm wondering if you filed the tabs down would it let you clamp the bar
> tighter?  Anyone try this?

I had the same thought, but the 220 grit fixed the problem without any other
mods.  The Hully rollers stay put, now.  Can't think of a reason filing the
tabs down would not work.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Bill Leonhardt <WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:38:15 -0400
At 09:38 AM 10/26/99 -0400, Joe Brzoza <joebr_at_burton.com> wrote:

SNIP

>
>As far as the Hully Rollers slipping, could it be that they offer more
>leverage against the clip than the saddles do?  I was looking at the clips
>the other day and I noticed that they differ from the old style.  The new
>ones have "tabs" on the inside that meet together when the nut is tightened.
>I'm wondering if you filed the tabs down would it let you clamp the bar
>tighter?  Anyone try this?
>
 Joe,

I have the Yak towers that clip to the factory rack (Double Cross), cradles
in the front and Hully rollers in back.  I have replaced the hand nuts on
the Hully rollers with regular hex nuts (to discourage tampering) and have
been able to tighten things there "real" tight.  Essentially no slippage
there.

The slippage (rotation) I experience is at the towers.  Teenie tiny little
red levers are used to tighten the tower and you just can't get enough
force to "really" tighten things well.  Also you have to pay attention to
orientation of these levers for locking.  Not at great design.  I also
think that once you get things tight, the rubber inside flows and things
loosen.

I very disappointed in this aspect of the Yakima design.

Bill Leonhardt
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From: Joe Brzoza <joebr_at_burton.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:13:56 -0400
At 10:10 AM 10/26/99 -0700, Ralph wrote: 
 > 
>I often have wondered why people, when faced with round vs. square, 
>continue to get the round ones, i.e. Yakimas as opposed to Thules.   
The 
>square bars can't roll and they also seem to tighten better inside the 
>towers, at least from my own experience and observation of others. 

I'm a big advocate of the round bars but maybe that's because it's what I
own.  A couple of reasons I like them:

1.) If you have a car with a rounded roofline (think New VW Beetle) you can
still have your attachments perpendicular to the ground as they don't have
to follow the same angle as the towers.  And if your anal-retentive like me
it allows you to get that perfect fit between the saddles and the hull.

2.)  When you're not transporting anything on the roof you can slip the
attachment down and out of the wind (ski racks especially).

3.)  I've compared the weight of a Thule rack to that of a Yakima rack and
the Yakima is much heavier.  So my good 'ol Yankee intuition tells me that
the Yakima has got to be tougher. (No doubt there's an engineer on this list
that will come back spouting technical metallurgical data proving otherwise)


I've had Yakima rack for many years and only since they've come out with
this new design with the slipping bars have they disappointed me.  
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From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:45:57 -0400
Joe Brzoza wrote:
> 
> 3.)  I've compared the weight of a Thule rack to that of a Yakima rack and
> the Yakima is much heavier.  So my good 'ol Yankee intuition tells me that
> the Yakima has got to be tougher. (No doubt there's an engineer on this list
> that will come back spouting technical metallurgical data proving otherwise)

I won't spout any theory, but there is no specific correlation between weight
and strength/toughness/stiffness etc.   

Personally, I prefer Thule.

Mike
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From: David Seng <David_at_wainet.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:00:49 -0800
  Jack Martin and I discussed this offline a while ago - He related that Don
Dimond recommended using the type of "sanding mesh" that is commonly used
for sanding joint compound (used in drywall/sheetrock installations).  This
stuff works great because it has grit on both/all surfaces and will "bite"
both the clamps and the bar without needing to be glued into place.
  Just for the record - I haven't had any problems with my pre-'93 Yakima
bars rolling in the towers or with the cradle/roller clamps slipping.

Dave Seng
Juneau Alaska
 (I just read last night that we've had 288 days of precip for the year so
far - anybody want to come up and play in the rain?   Sea Kayaking is the
perfect sport for a place that's likely to have as much water above the boat
as below)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bhansen97_at_aol.com [mailto:Bhansen97_at_aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:32 AM
> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
> 
> 
> I haven't had the problem with rolling Yakima bars. Just 
> lucky, I guess. 
> 
> But here's a thought for those who do have that problem: 
> Several people have 
> recommended bonding emery paper to the inside of the clamps 
> which grip the 
> bars. Sounds like a simple and effective fix. 
> 
> Others have been told to strip away the plastic coating from 
> the bars (just 
> where the clamps go) and wrap the bars with masking tape. The 
> result has been 
> rusting of the bars. So - Rather than strip away the plastic 
> bar coating, why 
> not contact cement (or epoxy) a bit of emery cloth to the 
> *outside of the 
> plastic* which coats the bars? Might have to sand that 
> coating lightly first 
> - and would have to be careful not to wrap too much emery 
> paper around the 
> bar.
> **************************************************************
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From: <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Yakima roundbar slippage/new rack
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:22:38 EDT
The December issue of Sea Kayaker has a picture of Yakima's new Mako Saddles --- selling them by the pair instead of a set of four!  Way to go, Yakima!  Finally starting to listen to your faithful customers, huh?  Buyable at $55, the pair.  Unfortunately, the Makos do look a little like upturned and distorted toilet plungers to me.  Not exactly sure which part of the shark they're supposed to look like, but they're new and different and belong on all those Lexi out there, I'm sure.  And they'll probably get a pretty good grip on the hull, too.

Lexus Bashing Audi Driving Jack 
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