Does Paddlewise have a searchable heading such as ACCIDENT REPORTS in its archives? Would Paddlewise serve boaters well by having such a file? It is clear that information on specific accidents is easily lost or buried in many ways. Once a case is reported somewhere, it is covered by copyright and becomes the sole property of the publisher. The story, in effect, has been "captured" and sequestered. The information is lost to the general public. A small story in a local news section of a regional paper assures that no one outside the region will ever hear about the circumstances of the case. Press reports are often severly incomplete or misleading because the writers are not boaters and don't know what questions need to be asked. Coast Guard tables showing accident statistics do not provide the public with any significant understanding of the circumstances surrounding individual cases. Readers eyes glaze over when confronted with numbers of dead not wearing PFD's. The predominant conclusion of folks that don't understand the effects of cold water is likely to be "too bad they didn't know how to swim" "I do; it won't happen to me!" I believe there needs to be a site or archive file that records a few paragraphs about every sea kayaking or coastal paddling accident that comes to the attention of Paddlewise subscribers. Allowing authors to capture and bury stories that are crucial to teaching the general public about how to deal with the coastal enviroment should not be encouraged in my opinion. Chuck Sutherland Skimmer_at_mail.enter.net http://www.enter.net/~skimmer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "skimmer_at_mail.enter.net" <skimmer_at_mail.enter.net> > Does Paddlewise have a searchable heading such as ACCIDENT REPORTS > in its archives? > > Would Paddlewise serve boaters well by having such a file? > > It is clear that information on specific accidents is easily lost or > buried in many ways. Once a case is reported somewhere, it is > covered by copyright and becomes the sole property of the publisher. > The story, in effect, has been "captured" and sequestered. The > information is lost to the general public. A small story in a local > news section of a regional paper assures that no one outside the > region will ever hear about the circumstances of the case. Press > reports are often severly incomplete or misleading because the > writers are not boaters and don't know what questions need to be > asked. It is acceptable to paraphrase or refer to an article. A report can be written using other materials as reference materials without violating copyright. It's done all the time in research papers, etc. Anyone that would like to do this for any incidents that are reported is welcome to do so and I will set up a section on the PaddleWise page to inclue their reports. All suggestions and offers to contribute are welcome :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've been following Paddlewise for about a year now, and I have to say, it's been a good year. I just recently signed on to the Macgregor-Venture list, tied in with my new boat, and I'm about to sign off of it. Flaming. People blithly attaching huge JPGs. This weekend, someone dropped a 978 kb WAV file onto the list -- it took my mailer a long time to chew that up at 14,400 baud. People copying messages whole, sometimes four or five replies deep. Go though an experience like that and you realize just how good a place this is, and how good a job our listmom does in keeping everything moving. Every mailing list I've ever signed onto pales by comparison to this list. We've got a lot of knowledgeable people on here that know their stuff, and aren't afraid to help out a newbie. We may have our differences, but we can discuss them like adults. So, I just wanted to say, "Great going, Jackie", and "Great going, Paddlewisers." -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wrote: > > [snip] you realize just how good a place > this is, and how good a job our listmom does in keeping everything moving. > Every mailing list I've ever signed onto pales by comparison to this list. > We've got a lot of knowledgeable people on here that know their stuff, and > aren't afraid to help out a newbie. We may have our differences, but we can > discuss them like adults. Amen, brother Wes -- frank, no-holds barred discussions, but with gentlemanly rules on conduct have always appealed to me. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> So, I just wanted to say, "Great going, Jackie", Thanks, Wes. > and "Great going, Paddlewisers." Yup, I'll second that. The real value of PaddleWise lies in its members... the curiosity and interest in learning and the generosity of the experienced paddlers in sharing their knowledge, as well as the discovery that comes with the exchange of ideas. And love those trip reports! Way to go, friends! Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> > I just recently signed on to the Macgregor-Venture list, tied in with my > new boat, and I'm about to sign off of it. Flaming. People blithly > attaching huge JPGs. This weekend, someone dropped a 978 kb WAV file onto > the list -- it took my mailer a long time to chew that up at 14,400 baud. > People copying messages whole, sometimes four or five replies deep. I should be smacked on the head with a pfd for not mentioning this before.... but the real trouble shooter of PaddleWise is Bob Myers. He's the one that solved the problem of the subscriber's loopy mail server that was sending everyone double messages, resolves a lot of mail error situations, set up the list to prevent all those huge image files etc. from beating up on your machines, prevented html markup tags that confound us all, and set up many more perks about this list :-) So, forgive me Bob for not mentioning that earlier as it's a big part of what makes things move along much smoother admin-wise here on PaddleWise. As for people copying messages whole without editing their replies (even including the PaddleWise trailer).... we haven't been able to solve that one yet. But we think we're getting closer (ok, so we dream a little :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Jackie, Could you tell us how many list members we have? How much effort do YOU but into this list. How much work is really involved in keeping this going? An hour a day, two? More? 8-( Thanks... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com > Hi Jackie, > > Could you tell us how many list members we have? The membership level stays pretty much between 550 and 600. > How much effort do YOU but into this list. How much work is really > involved in keeping this going? An hour a day, two? More? 8-( Why? Am I up for a pay raise? :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Hi Jackie, > > Could you tell us how many list members we have? The membership level stays pretty much between 550 and 600. > How much effort do YOU but into this list. How much work is really > involved in keeping this going? An hour a day, two? More? 8-( |Why? Am I up for a pay raise? :-) |Cheers, |Jackie Yes Mam! I'm more than willing to increase your salary for the list work by a factor of 100! 8-) I'm curious about the work effort for a couple of reasons. One, I'm just really curious! 8-) Two, the other list I'm subscribed to, which has about 3000 members, has "issues." The list owner says he puts in over 3 hours per day just to maintain the list. That seems very excessive to me. Not that I don't believe him, I believe he puts in that kinda time. That just seems like an amazing amount of time and effort. Now he is running contests, writing web tutorials for the list, and has some security problems so I can see where some of the time is going. I'm just curious if this list requires that much effort. The other list also seems very sensitive to off topic threads. The admin has mentioned that off topic threads generate many messages to him to kill the thread. Since PaddleWise SELDOM goes off topic, 8-), do you have this kinda problem? The curiousity is further peaked because the differences between the two lists are so extreme. While the other list has 5 times the members which certainly adds to the admin's work load as well as increases the odds of someone saying something that is misinterpreted and starts a flame war, this list just is light years more mature. Yes mature! Can you believe it! 8-) But after reading many of the Bio's that were just sent in, the list seems to be much older, errrr, mature! 8-) Running and ducking! Soooo, I'm wondering how much time you spend as the hidden hand on the helm. Thanks... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com > I'm curious about the work effort for a couple of reasons. One, I'm just > really curious! 8-) Two, the other list I'm subscribed to, which has > about 3000 members, has "issues." The list owner says he puts in over 3 > hours per day just to maintain the list. Only 3 hours a day?!? My, I wonder how he does it? :-) Seriously, it depends upon how much hands-on the list-owner is. I'm sure I spend way more time than is necessary but it's what I feel is necessary for smooth flow. Most of it (I won't go into as it's trade secrets :-) you won't see. To me, the best run list is one that is chugging along and the subscribers don't even notice when there's a misfire :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/09/1999 1:37:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com writes: << I'm curious about the work effort for a couple of reasons. One, I'm just really curious! 8-) Two, the other list I'm subscribed to, which has about 3000 members, has "issues." The list owner says he puts in over 3 hours per day just to maintain the list. >> It takes me a couple of hours a day just to read (and respond to) the list -- and I skip or merely glance over the super technical and super cold water :) stuff. I think Jackie is in denial and doesn't want to work out how long she spends on the list. Oh, oh, another 12-step program...... Another little observation: have you noticed that men are "curious" while women are "nosy?" Vive la difference! Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
|Another little observation: have you noticed that men are "curious" while |women are "nosy?" |Vive la difference! |Sandy Kramer LOL! I origionally said nosy but figured "curious" sounded better AND more importantly I could spell it correctly. I wrote out nosy and said that does not look right! So curious it was! 8-) Later... Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie, Just wanted to put my 2 cents in towards your raise. This has to be the best run list that I have ever seen or subscribed to. I know that there is an awful lot of work involved in making things run so smoothly----but you have managed to make it look like the list runs itself. Keep up the GREAT work and THANKS for all of your efforts in keeping this list as good as it is. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I suggest a training seminar in a warm (tropical) place of Jackie's choosing. I volunteer to wave the palm fronds over Jackie if someone promises to supply the beer. >As for people copying messages whole without editing their replies (even >including the PaddleWise trailer).... we haven't been able to solve that >one yet. But we think we're getting closer (ok, so we dream a little :-) > >Cheers, > >Jackie >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Volin wrote: > > I suggest a training seminar in a warm (tropical) place of Jackie's > choosing. I volunteer to wave the palm fronds over Jackie if someone > promises to supply the beer. I believe tradition requires the frond-wavers to be ... ahhh ... "fixed." Their salary is terrible, but they get good severance pay. Are you volunteering? <major grin> -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR who does beer, but has no fronds *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Bob Volin wrote: >> >> I suggest a training seminar in a warm (tropical) place of Jackie's >> choosing. I volunteer to wave the palm fronds over Jackie if someone >> promises to supply the beer. > Dave Kruger replied: >I believe tradition requires the frond-wavers to be ... ahhh ... "fixed." >Their salary is terrible, but they get good severance pay. Are you >volunteering? > ><major grin> >-- ..... Ahhhh, that (_at_#$%) law of unintended consequences again! Can't we just change the rules? I'd hate to ... er.. curtail my frond-waving career (among other things). But keep the beer. Bob (not bobbed) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob wrote; >..... Ahhhh, that (_at_#$%) law of unintended consequences again! Can't we >just change the rules? I'd hate to ... er.. curtail my frond-waving career >(among other things). But keep the beer. Many thanks to Jackie! As far as the frond waving, remind me to tell the story of my frond waving over a beer. Ahh what da heck forget the beer! Just a little tip on international travel. If you go skinny dipping with your wife at 11:00 PM make sure you hide your clothes someone might steal them. It is not easy to break off green palm fronds from the trees when you do not have a knife (of course I did not have a pocket to put a knife in at the time). But once removed they do serve a purpose. Talk about going back to nature. As my wife stayed offshore in the darkness I strolled the beach with only my palm frond looking for assistance. At the time I thought it was a lot funnier than wifey did. The real problem was she said it was going to happen. I told her not to worry if it did happen I will figure out something. Don't you hate it when there right. I'll never hear the end of this one !! The Mexicans that brought me the towels from the hotel thought it was pretty funny. Note; when choosing palm fronds be sure to get the right size, I had a medium size but should have had a size large. Barely, Arthur *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From: "skimmer_at_mail.enter.net" <skimmer_at_mail.enter.net> >To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subject: [Paddlewise] Accident Reports Archive >It is clear that information on specific accidents is easily lost or >buried in many ways. Once a case is reported somewhere, it is >covered by copyright and becomes the sole property of the publisher. >The story, in effect, has been "captured" and sequestered. The >information is lost to the general public. Allowing authors >to capture and bury stories that are crucial to teaching the general >public about how to deal with the coastal enviroment should not be >encouraged in my opinion. > >Chuck Sutherland Chuck, The newspaper writers do not have a copyright on the facts of a story, only on the words they have used to express the story. And that's fair, since that's how they make their living, interpreting stories for the public. If you (or any one else) wanted to write a summary in your own words of an event based on a newspaper story, that's legal - it is common courtesty to aknowledge your source i.e. "This account is based on an article by John Wretchedhack which appeared in the April 32nd, 1999 edition of "The Cleveland Wheeler-Dealer" You could also contact the princples mentioned in the story and write your own kayaker-perspective account, as Doug L. has often done. Philip Torrens N49°16' W123°06' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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