In a message dated 11/02/1999 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, baker_at_montana.com writes: << It's also a lot easier to marry a paddler than to marry a non-paddler, and try to convince her that paddling is great! >> Hi, Shawn, this reminds me of something else. Our camping trips seem to be filled with men who are married to non-campers! Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn Baker Wrote: << It's also a lot easier to marry a paddler than to marry a non-paddler, and try to convince her that paddling is great! >> Sandykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > Hi, Shawn, this reminds me of something else. Our camping trips seem to be > filled with men who are married to non-campers! This just begs the question: why doesn't one see as many women campers/paddlers/skiers/climbers/etc. who are married to non-<insert sport here> participants? Are we men really that naturally compulsive about our sports that we exclude our SO's and women aren't so compulsive? I'm not saying intentional exclusion, but we go do outdoor stuff whether they want to join us or not. Or are there more "outdoorsy" men than women? I would think this is just a blatant stereotype and I personally don't want to believe it is true. A little good news at the Baker home-front: my wife just bought cross-country ski gear, and gave me the go-ahead to build a double! (not that I relish paddling a double, but it's better than feeling guilty for leaving my dear wife at home!) Shawn -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 1999 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/03/1999 4:58:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, baker_at_montana.com writes: << Are we men really that naturally compulsive about our sports that we exclude our SO's and women aren't so compulsive? I'm not saying intentional exclusion, but we go do outdoor stuff whether they want to join us or not. >> I guess I was lucky: two husbands and neither one of them liked camping yet neither one of them gave me a hard time when I would go off with outdoors groups. No way, no how is ANYONE going to stop me from camping -- way too much fun. I've even been on day paddling trips with two married guys; and have camped/paddled with a married friend whose wife does not participate in outdoors activities. We're friends and get along just fine. I've been to their house several times. No biggie. Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Actually, we've run into a number of women who paddle but whose husbands don't - although I think there are more men who paddle whose wives don't. What we don't see a lot of is couples who both paddle. Most often, we're the only couple in the group. Joan & Bob Volin On Wed, 03 Nov 1999 14:58:08 -0700 "Shawn W. Baker" <baker_at_montana.com> writes: > Shawn Baker Wrote: > << It's also a lot easier to marry a paddler than to marry a > non-paddler, > and try to convince her that paddling is great! >> > > Sandykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > Hi, Shawn, this reminds me of something else. Our camping trips > seem to be > > filled with men who are married to non-campers! > > This just begs the question: why doesn't one see as many women > campers/paddlers/skiers/climbers/etc. who are married to non-<insert > sport here> participants? > > Are we men really that naturally compulsive about our sports that we > exclude our SO's and women aren't so compulsive? I'm not saying > intentional exclusion, but we go do outdoor stuff whether they want > to > join us or not. > > Or are there more "outdoorsy" men than women? I would think this is > just a blatant stereotype and I personally don't want to believe it > is > true. > > A little good news at the Baker home-front: my wife just bought > cross-country ski gear, and gave me the go-ahead to build a double! > (not that I relish paddling a double, but it's better than feeling > guilty for leaving my dear wife at home!) > > Shawn > > -- > Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N > © 1999 ____©/______ 114°06'W > ~~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ > baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ > > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:14 PM 11/3/99 -0500, volinjo_at_juno.com wrote: >Actually, we've run into a number of women who paddle but whose husbands >don't - although I think there are more men who paddle whose wives don't. > What we don't see a lot of is couples who both paddle. Most often, >we're the only couple in the group. My wife has tried a touring kayak a couple of times but doesn't really care for it. However, she loves paddling in our canoe. When we first got our canoe I always took the stern position since I have a lot more experience and would do all of the steering Now she's learning how to draw and pry and helps steer so we're working more as a team. Even though she doesn't really like kayaking herself, what she does like is having me happy so she supports my passion. She also like going to sea kayaking symposiums, specifically the LL Bean symposium in Maine, especially if it means staying in that wonderful B&B right on the bay. >On Wed, 03 Nov 1999 14:58:08 -0700 "Shawn W. Baker" <baker_at_montana.com> >writes: >> A little good news at the Baker home-front: my wife just bought >> cross-country ski gear, and gave me the go-ahead to build a double! Picked a design yet? I doubt that I would build a double kayak but I've already had hints that I should build a stripper canoe after building the Norhtbay. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > My wife has tried a touring kayak a couple of times but doesn't really care > for > it. However, she loves paddling in our canoe. When we first got our canoe > I always took the stern position since I have a lot more experience > and would do all of the steering Now she's learning how to draw and pry > and helps steer so we're working more as a team. My wife doesn't really like the single kayaks, but she likes canoeing. My problem is that I don't like canoeing so much! I think a double will be a decent compromise--especially if I remember that I can't be in as rough of water as I'm used to in a single. > Even though she doesn't really like kayaking herself, what she does like is > having me happy so she supports my passion. She also like going to > sea kayaking symposiums, specifically the LL Bean symposium in Maine, > especially if it means staying in that wonderful B&B right on the bay. My wife is fairly outdoorsy, she likes hunting and fishing, which I get less excited about every year, and I like hiking, paddling, and camping. She absolutely loves going to REI stores with me--while I'm drooling over gear, she's buying fleece by the acre! > >>my wife...gave me the go-ahead to build a double! > > Picked a design yet? I doubt that I would build a double kayak but I've > already had hints that I should build a stripper canoe after building > the Norhtbay. I'm leaning toward Nick's Guillemot Double for the time being. It's one of the "narrower" doubles out there at 28"--not including his 21" beam Fast Single. Shawn -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 1999 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Shawn W. Baker" wrote: > > Sandykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > Hi, Shawn, this reminds me of something else. Our camping trips seem to be > > filled with men who are married to non-campers! > > This just begs the question: why doesn't one see as many women > campers/paddlers/skiers/climbers/etc. who are married to non-<insert > sport here> participants? > > Are we men really that naturally compulsive about our sports that we > exclude our SO's and women aren't so compulsive? I'm not saying > intentional exclusion, but we go do outdoor stuff whether they want to > join us or not. > > Or are there more "outdoorsy" men than women? I would think this is > just a blatant stereotype and I personally don't want to believe it is > true. I haven't figured this out completely, but I have a hypothesis. Comment first... I've seen several friends have their marriages or long term relationships come to an end as a result, in no small part, of the growing incompatibility due to the outdoorsy nature of him and the non-outdoorsy nature of her. What is interesting (personal experience here too) is that the women initially are interested in (or express strong interest in) the outdoors. This interest wanes, sometimes quickly. Strange. My hypothesis (slightly tongue in cheek) is that the ultimate dividing line between those who like the outdoors and those that don't is... whether they can go to the bathroom comfortably in the wilderness! This applies to both men and women, but seems to affect women more readily. Some women tend to have funny attitudes about hygiene and don't like not having a real bathroom. Some won't use a boom-box and abhor catholes. Hence, they won't go out. They are quick to point out the "advantage" men have when peeing in the wilderness - men only have to unzip (not totally true, women can pee standing up). Amie and I organized a wilderness camping trip last winter to train some xc ski trail guides. There were more women than men, but these women, who I've known a long time, are far from typical. Two other women wanted to join us, but only if they could stay outside the park (Algonquin) in a motel. I said "No - the yurt, quinzhee, tent, but no motel - either you're with us or you're not". After all the discussion with these two, I realized the real problem was - they wanted to shower at the end of the day and they didn't want to use the outdoor toilets in mid January. Lots of little bits of info gathered unintentially over the years has lead me, this past summer, into piecing together this hypothesis. > > A little good news at the Baker home-front: my wife just bought > cross-country ski gear, and gave me the go-ahead to build a double! > (not that I relish paddling a double, but it's better than feeling > guilty for leaving my dear wife at home!) That's good news! Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/04/1999 10:59:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu writes: << I think it's a physical law of the universe that you can't teach kayaking to your SO. >> Of course, the same way you shouldn't even try and teach a family member to drive! Maybe there's some sort of subconcious competitive edge lurking around! Maybe SO's hate it when they can't follow the "Anything you can do, I can do better." Any female paddlers out there who have tried to teach their male SOs to kayak? Any resentment at being taught by a (gasp WOMAN? Sandy Kramer Miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
K. Whilden wrote: > > Okay, > Here's something I've been pondering for a while. Why is it so hard to > teach an SO how to kayak? I've experienced numerous instances of > minor relationship difficulties when teach my various SO's how to eskimo > roll or paddle whitewater or sea. Or how to ski, snowboard, flyfish, sail, or climb. Probably everything except maybe ballroom dancing! In your position as an instructor, your students are coming to you, soliciting your advice. SO's probably see it as unsolicited advice and they see you saying to them "you're not as good as me, here's what you need to do!" This is probably an oversimplification, but having your friends teach them would eliminate the relationship hassles. So was this person already an ex-SO when you took them on the whitewater trip? It would definitely go a long way toward proving a hypothesis!! I'm hoping to get my wife into cross-country skiing this winter. I just found out that one of her best friends is an XC nut and she used to race in high school! I know my wife will learn to ski more willingly from her than me, so I'll just facilitate it and encourage her friend to join us as much as possible. An interesting aside: the friend's boyfriend is also learning to ski, so I'll probably take on teaching him, and save her the relationship hassles of teaching! Shawn >I teach kayaking professionally, and one > might expect that it would be easy for me to teach an SO. But not so, I > have just as much difficulty as anyone else. Small correctional comments > and tips that are well received by my students are instead met with > defensiveness or animosity. And one really interesting thing happened this > past summer. I took a recently ex-SO along on a whitewater class, and > after the class she said, and I quote, "wow, I never realized before that > you were such a good instructor". We had dated for a year and paddled > together lots, although I had given up trying to teach her whitewater, and > instead relied on friends to teach her. > > I think it's a physical law of the universe that you can't teach kayaking > to your SO. > > Cheers, > Kevin -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 1999 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
K. Whilden wrote: > > Okay, > Here's something I've been pondering for a while. Why is it so hard to > teach an SO how to kayak? I've experienced numerous instances of > minor relationship difficulties when teach my various SO's how to eskimo > roll or paddle whitewater or sea. Or how to ski, snowboard, flyfish, sail, or climb. Probably everything except maybe ballroom dancing! In your position as an instructor, your students are coming to you, soliciting your advice. SO's probably see it as unsolicited advice and they see you saying to them "you're not as good as me, here's what you need to do!" This is probably an oversimplification, but having your friends teach them would eliminate the relationship hassles. So was this person already an ex-SO when you took them on the whitewater trip? It would definitely go a long way toward proving a hypothesis!! I'm hoping to get my wife into cross-country skiing this winter. I just found out that one of her best friends is an XC nut and she used to race in high school! I know my wife will learn to ski more willingly from her than me, so I'll just facilitate it and encourage her friend to join us as much as possible. An interesting aside: the friend's boyfriend is also learning to ski, so I'll probably take on teaching him, and save her the relationship hassles of teaching! Shawn >I teach kayaking professionally, and one > might expect that it would be easy for me to teach an SO. But not so, I > have just as much difficulty as anyone else. Small correctional comments > and tips that are well received by my students are instead met with > defensiveness or animosity. And one really interesting thing happened this > past summer. I took a recently ex-SO along on a whitewater class, and > after the class she said, and I quote, "wow, I never realized before that > you were such a good instructor". We had dated for a year and paddled > together lots, although I had given up trying to teach her whitewater, and > instead relied on friends to teach her. > > I think it's a physical law of the universe that you can't teach kayaking > to your SO. > > Cheers, > Kevin -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 1999 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:05 PDT