PaddleWise by thread

From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> subject: [Paddlewise] Dear Dougie (My wooden boat...) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:07:46 -0800 · This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:07 PDT

Hi gang again!

I had some private e-mail questions about wooden boat construction. This is
most likely due to my endorsement of heavier and stiffer and the fact that
I've said I would like to built myself a strong, wooden kayak.

To be quite frank, I have not researched the subject yet, nor have I read
any books on the process yet (such as Nick's). I don't know why people ask
my opinion about stuff - I'm an sea kayak enthusiast, not an expert.
_However_, I've never not been one to offer my opinions, wanted or not :-)

One of the questions was how stiff does a kayak need to be, and what is an
ideal weight for a strong, longer sea kayak. I would posit a position on
this, suggesting 45 to 55 lbs, depending on paint and hatch options. A skeg
box can also add a lot of weight. I also think a wooden boat should be
fairly stiff, as stated before. I can't buy into Alex's "lively" kayak
philosophy. I've never, never seen a race kayak that was lively. They are
all stiff, very stiff (and light due to limitless funding). If a kayak is
flexing, that is energy being expended, so its being wasted somewhere
simply from a physics point of view (please, no more flames...aaaahhhhh!
-well, at least no more minor candle burns). I try to buy into Ralph's
philosophy with folders - that a boat contouring with the waves is
performance enhanced, but I don't think I could prove it empirically.

The other question I was asked relates to the procedure for actually laying
up the fiberglass on the wood, and what cloth to use - 4 or 6 ounce. I
would suggest other listserver groups for that answer, but of course, I
will say what I think, now that I seem to have a seam reputation. 

One of the paddlewisers in question is building a CLC North Bay stitch
n'glue. He wants to fiberglass the deck , put extra tape on the chines and
beam, and recess the hatches which will require extra plywood layers for
reinforcement (none of which is specified in the plans for the 40 lb boat.
He is not too concerned with weight.

Another paddlewiser is a month or two away from fiberglassings his
Guillemot, but is wondering what to do about a glassing schedule for the
hull. Nick Schade's plans recommend 6 oz. inside and outside for a standard
layup. Our fellow PW'er wants it a bit stronger than that, but doesn't want
to go overboard.

I may modify my following advice when I'm actually ready to build my own
boat. But at the onset, this is the way _I_ would proceed (this is my
partial "top ten" list of items to consider):

1. At a minimum, from the back bulkhead to the front bulkhead, lay in 6 oz
cloth. You need that thickness for center rigidity and wear from in and out
paddler movement. 4 oz is not enough.

2. If the bow or stern are going to be difficult to get to because your
construction sequence is such that the two halves are already going to be
joined, and if you want more glass on the inside of the bow and stern, you
can glass the wood pieces in sections first, as this is much easier than
getting the glass in later.

3. Fiberglass wooden bulkheads in with glass (cut and glassed first, both
sides). To actually secure them in their positions, make up a putty of
epoxy resin to use as a fillet all around the perimeter, rather than glass
tape. Much easier, I would think.

4. As far as the big question of the outside, start by placing the kayak on
its side, not on its hull. Take 6 oz cloth and lay it out such that 2
inches overlaps the gunwale line, onto the deck, and then cut the cloth so
that 2 inches also overlap the keel line. Important - let this cure. Next
morning, do the same to the other side. You now have a double layer at the
keel line, and 2 inches is enough to fair out.

5. Once cured to a point, place kayak on hull, and lay cloth over deck. 4
oz will cut down on weight, but may actually be more expensive that 6oz,
depending upon supply and demand in your area. For the cutting allowances,
I would simply drape the cloth so that 2 inches overlaps the gunwales on
each side. You now have double layers along the seams after epoxy.

6. It is a good idea, and I usually do this with wood and epoxy things. Wet
out the wood and or plywood first by painting on the epoxy resin. Let it
dry. Do this for all your parts -everything. As you work with each piece of
wood or perhaps the entire deck or hull or whatever portion you are working
on, sand it out lightly at the point where it cures without "balling-up" on
the sandpaper. If you let it go for a few days, it gets too hard to sand.

7. Then, and only then, are you ready to wet the surface out again, add the
cloth, and wet it out too, buy pouring on the mixture and using a squeegee
(SP). I do not like rollers, personally. Regardless of how you apply and
spread-out the resin, if you have too many layers of cloth, like three 4 oz
layers, you will never get the right saturation - its just too hard to tell
how much resin is being soaked up or squeezed out.

8. The reason for pre-wetting out the plywood, is the fact that this allows
a more consistent approach to absorption into the wood fibers - you can see
what is happening before the cloth goes on later. You will need to sand, as
mentioned, and possibly wash with detergent a bit because of the "blushing"
issue and wax residue. This method should help produce a better, stronger
boat.

9. I would use something like the West System fast cure 205 for all your
work. You need to work fast with it, and may need to use masking tape cloth
in place to keep organized, but the pay back is faster finishing, and more
importantly, you get a lot less pooling and run-down and drips and dry
spots near chines where gravity would pull sections dry with the slower
drying epoxy formulas.

10. You can use paint too. Then you are free to make a mess, fit pieces
with less precision, then back-fill a bit. Paint covers it all up, but as
paint is 50% solids, the boat will dry a bit heavy in the end - and you
don't get to show off your workmanship and the beauty of the wood.

So, that's my take on it. I probably can't answer any other questions at
this time, and I am not open to flames or abuse on this one. I'm just
trying to help out some PW friends, and let you in on the discussion.

BC'in Ya
Doug Lloyd 

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************