Paddlewisers, I received a private email with questions about how to outfit a kayak with foam and a backband. Having outfitted more than a few kayaks, I feel qualified to share some basic info about. First of all, I buy my closed cell foam by ordering over the phone from Nantahala Outdoor Center, 800-367-3521 or www.noc.com/store.html. Ask for their catalog because there is a lot of good stuff in there for sea kayakers even though its a white water place. They have an excellent return policy and great customer service. Experienced kayakers always answer the phone. Because I never know when I may need the foam, I always keep about 4 feet of 1/4", 1/2" and 3" foam in stock in the garage. These sizes cover all of my needs. The 3" is for thigh/knee and hip braces, and seats, the 1/2" for a heel pad, and the 1/4" for padding the inside of the hull where my knees may bang against. As for glue, forget the Perception stuff, because it is too expensive. Go to a hardware store (I go to Ace) and buy a can of Weldwood contact cement. It is cheap and hasn't failed me yet. For cutting the foam, I use scissors or handsaws, and for carving, a small Surform Shaver 21-115 tool. I follow up with sanding the foam, and if I want to be fancy, slightly torching the foam to get rid of the fuzzy look. I learned that torch trick from Harold Tervort, an instructor (and paddlewiser) at Southwind Kayak Center in Irvine. Learning to shape foam just takes trial and error (I won't hand hold), and the shape you need varies from one kayak to another. Sea Kayaker magazine has a nice article on it the February 98 issue. I never felt a back rest that I liked. They all provide support in the wrong spot, and they are all too high for leaning on the back deck when rolling, bracing and sculling. It should be illegal to make or sell a kayak with one. Backbands are a hundred times better and the only way to go. And don't install it high. I really like the Snap Dragon backband that is a plastic strap with neoprene padding. The strap gets bolted in. It works great on my plastic Looksha IV and fiberglass Arluk II. I bought both of my backbands at Southwind Kayak Center in Irvine, where the staff is very knowledgeable about outfitting, 949-261-0200 or www.southwindkayaks.com. I see Nantahala sells these backbands too. By the way, I am not affiliated with Nantahala or Southwind, but both of them should give me business cards and pay me a commission on the sales from all of the referrals I give them. Duane Strosaker Who can't stand a kayak that isn't properly outfitted! <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/index.html">Pirate Sea Kayaker</A> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > As for glue, forget the Perception stuff, because it is too expensive. Go to > a hardware store (I go to Ace) and buy a can of Weldwood contact cement. It > is cheap and hasn't failed me yet. from my experience I'd go along with this, fancy glues are a waste of money I've also had a lot of success with sticky velcro to hold certain bits of foam in. It has a good glue that lasts well under salt water conditions. I use it to hold my knee/thigh braces in so I can move them around if need be - there's always a slighly more perfect position. is perfectly solid nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Duane: The stock back band in the Romany provides NO support. After one roll, my back band drops below the seat. That makes rolls difficult, and paddling in rough water a pain. The Eddyline Falcon 18 has a seat that has a backrest which is very comfortable and provides the back support I like during a roll. [I don't lean back very far in my rolls.] I am thinking that I need a back support that is high up; one that you destest.... I'd like to know if other romany "drivers" have had the same problem and what you might recommend. Thanks. Robert > From: Strosaker_at_aol.com > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:57:53 -0500 (EST) > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] Foam and Backband Outfitting > > I really like the Snap Dragon backband that is a plastic > strap with neoprene padding. The strap gets bolted in. It works great on my > plastic Looksha IV and fiberglass Arluk II. I bought both of my backbands at > Southwind Kayak Center in Irvine, where the staff is very knowledgeable about > outfitting, 949-261-0200 or www.southwindkayaks.com. I see Nantahala sells > these backbands too. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Robert, I also found that the back band was to low to provide any support for my lower back. I eventually got my courage up and took a saw to the fiberglass hanging seat and removed the whole workds. I now have a split foam seat (the split in the middle lets water drain out of the seat pan so I don't sit in a puddle) and a foam block for a back rest. It is still too low to push on my lower back, but I find having a solid support to tip my pelvis forward is good enough. I can still lay back when rolling without any problems. I used minicell foam with outer layer of 1/2 inch thick neoprene close cell foam pipe insulation for a softer face padding (flat shees are available from Grainger industrial supplys). It is not as cushy as some of the higher seat backs, but I find it quick comfortable and it does not restrict my upper body movement when rolling and bracing. Robert C. Cline wrote: > Duane: > > The stock back band in the Romany provides NO support. After one roll, my > back band drops below the seat. That makes rolls difficult, and paddling in > rough water a pain. > > The Eddyline Falcon 18 has a seat that has a backrest which is very > comfortable and provides the back support I like during a roll. [I don't > lean back very far in my rolls.] > > I am thinking that I need a back support that is high up; one that you > destest.... > > I'd like to know if other romany "drivers" have had the same problem and > what you might recommend. > > Thanks. > > Robert > > > From: Strosaker_at_aol.com > > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:57:53 -0500 (EST) > > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Subject: [Paddlewise] Foam and Backband Outfitting > > > > I really like the Snap Dragon backband that is a plastic > > strap with neoprene padding. The strap gets bolted in. It works great on my > > plastic Looksha IV and fiberglass Arluk II. I bought both of my backbands at > > Southwind Kayak Center in Irvine, where the staff is very knowledgeable about > > outfitting, 949-261-0200 or www.southwindkayaks.com. I see Nantahala sells > > these backbands too. > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert said that he'd "... like to know if other romany 'drivers' have had the same problem [with backbands and rolling] and what you might recommend." The Romany and VCP's Pintail are reasonably close in design and operation. In my Pintail, the after bulkhead is just behind the seat, and the area is virtually inaccessible while paddling. I assembled and glued in blocks of minicell foam at the bulkhead, filling in the area aft of the seat, creating an extremely comfortable backrest. It curves up from the seatpan, but then reverses a curve to establish a low lumbar support and continues to curve back to join the top inside edge of the coaming. On top of that, I glued on a piece of two mil neoprene, nylon side out, wrapping that over the backrest and over the top of the coaming, giving a continuous, smooth transition for extreme layback rolls, and making the whole thing comfortable enough for eight hour paddles on occasion. The design makes entry into the Pintail's very small "ocean cockpit" viable, as well, and there's no backband to push down and have to then pull back up, either. Important in re-entry and rolls. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert, I guess that there can be bad backbands too. I haven't seen a Romany backband, but the backband on the Skerray RM I recently sold was very effective and had a strap to prevent it from being pushed down. Some of the other backbands I have use bungees to hold them up. The Snap Dragon backband I mentioned earlier is self supporting because the band is a plastic belt. Maybe a strap or some bungies to hold you backband up in the correct possition could help. Duane Strosaker <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/index.html">Pirate Sea Kayaker</A> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The Romany back band is supported too low. Not high up near the coming. Robert > From: Strosaker_at_aol.com > Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:56:50 -0500 (EST) > To: rccline_at_swbell.net, PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Foam and Backband Outfitting > > I guess that there can be bad backbands too. I haven't seen a Romany > backband, but the backband on the Skerray RM I recently sold was very > effective and had a strap to prevent it from being pushed down. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have the standard VCP backband in my skerray and it works well. I have it adjusted quite tight nonetheless My lower back ain't perfect any more but I do find that flexibility and posture (through yoga mainly) and some effort at maintaining torso strength (yoga and weights/exercise ball stuff) don't go astray. don't just look to the external supports nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The standard backband on the Romany is definitely a loser. You have to get the higher end replacement band. That works just fine. On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:19:24 -0600 "Robert C. Cline" <rccline_at_swbell.net> writes: > Duane: > > The stock back band in the Romany provides NO support. After one > roll, my > back band drops below the seat. That makes rolls difficult, and > paddling in > rough water a pain. > > The Eddyline Falcon 18 has a seat that has a backrest which is very > comfortable and provides the back support I like during a roll. [I > don't > lean back very far in my rolls.] > > I am thinking that I need a back support that is high up; one that > you > destest.... > > I'd like to know if other romany "drivers" have had the same problem > and > what you might recommend. > > Thanks. > > Robert > > > From: Strosaker_at_aol.com > > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:57:53 -0500 (EST) > > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Subject: [Paddlewise] Foam and Backband Outfitting > > > > I really like the Snap Dragon backband that is a plastic > > strap with neoprene padding. The strap gets bolted in. It works > great on my > > plastic Looksha IV and fiberglass Arluk II. I bought both of my > backbands at > > Southwind Kayak Center in Irvine, where the staff is very > knowledgeable about > > outfitting, 949-261-0200 or www.southwindkayaks.com. I see > Nantahala sells > > these backbands too. > > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I replaced the plastic in the Snap Dragon with scuba belt webbing. I found that if you sit on the stock backband while entering, it puts a lot of stress on the hull. The Scuba belt is a continuous loop through a couple of 2" d rings at the hip braces and is fixed using a scuba buckle and is easily adjustable. cya -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Strosaker_at_aol.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 10:57 AM To: rccline_at_swbell.net; PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Foam and Backband Outfitting Robert, I guess that there can be bad backbands too. I haven't seen a Romany backband, but the backband on the Skerray RM I recently sold was very effective and had a strap to prevent it from being pushed down. Some of the other backbands I have use bungees to hold them up. The Snap Dragon backband I mentioned earlier is self supporting because the band is a plastic belt. Maybe a strap or some bungies to hold you backband up in the correct possition could help. Duane Strosaker <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/index.html">Pirate Sea Kayaker</A> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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