This kind of jumps onto the self rescue thread that just popped up... I was watching a video of rescue techniques the other day and saw mostly the usual stuff, paddlefloats, t rescues etc. and then the hosts did a modification on their paddle float rescue where they attached nylon webbing to the paddle shaft and made a stirrup-the person then stepped into the stirrup and was given a "boost" back into the kayak. I'm looking at this tape and thinking to myself "you've got to be kidding me". I've been religeously practicing my self rescues and am always looking for good alternate ways, but even the hosts took quite a while to arrange the stirrups just right-I get annoyed enough at the time it takes to inflate the paddlefloat, I can't imagine that taking the time to attach stirrup would be at all helpful. Has anyone ever actually done this? Allison, Who just discovered a 15 foot square patch of open water on the lake and is rooting for the melt to continue... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Allison Corning wrote: > I was watching a video of rescue techniques the other day and saw mostly the > usual stuff, paddlefloats, t rescues etc. and then the hosts did a > modification on their paddle float rescue where they attached nylon webbing > to the paddle shaft and made a stirrup-the person then stepped into the > stirrup and was given a "boost" back into the kayak. I'm looking at this > tape and thinking to myself "you've got to be kidding me". Less cumbersome and quicker is to carry a loop of webbing which will fit around the cockpit and hang down in the water so the paddler can get her/his foot into it to help him/her back into the cockpit. Some forethought is necessary: put a carabiner (or similar) on the loop so it will slide to the low point of the end of the loop in the water, and also attach a float so the whole thing will not disappear into the briny deep. My experience is that with folks who are heavier than average and/or do not have good upper body strength, the loop is necessary to re-enter the cockpit. For the fitter crowd, it just makes mounting the deck easier, and less fatiguing. Takes less than 15 seconds to deploy, and the entrapment hazard is minimal, because the loop is not firmly attached to the yak. BTW, I thought T-rescues were disfavored because in the conditions where you would need a T-rescue, most likely it would be so rough the T-rescue would be unworkable and/or hazardous to life and limb. Could be I have confused the T with another rescue. The version of the T I know is called "TX" in my 1988 edition of Dowd's Sea Kayaking (page 123). -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:59 AM 3/8/00 -0800, Dave Kruger wrote: >Allison Corning wrote: > >> I was watching a video of rescue techniques the other day and saw mostly the >> usual stuff, paddlefloats, t rescues etc. and then the hosts did a >> modification on their paddle float rescue where they attached nylon webbing >> to the paddle shaft and made a stirrup-the person then stepped into the >> stirrup and was given a "boost" back into the kayak. I'm looking at this >> tape and thinking to myself "you've got to be kidding me". > >Less cumbersome and quicker is to carry a loop of webbing which will fit around >the cockpit and hang down in the water so the paddler can get her/his foot into >it to help him/her back into the cockpit. Some forethought is necessary: put >a carabiner (or similar) on the loop so it will slide to the low point of the >end of the loop in the water, and also attach a float so the whole thing will >not disappear into the briny deep. I've never tried to use webbing as a stirrup, but I have used a loop of rope. Get a piece of rope about 15' long and tie the ends together. After a capsize, and the cockpit has been mostly emptied of water, put the loop of rope over the paddle and lay the paddle behind the cockpit, perpendicular to the boat. Reach under the boat and pull the rope under and to your side of the kayak. Wrap the loop of rope around the paddle shaft several time until there is only about 2' of loop hanging off. Put on a paddle float and then step into the loop. If you're facing to the stern put the foot in that is closest to the kayak. Reach across the top of the kayak and pull yourself onto the rear deck. Once you've hooked your other leg across the paddle shaft you can take your foot out of the stirrup. Then grab the paddleshaft with your hand and lean toward the paddlefloat and you can move your leg from the paddleshaft. Keep your head low to the deck and most of your weight on the paddlefloat side of the kayak. This is *VERY* important. Wiggle your feet into the cockpit and start sliding toward the stern. While making sure that your weight is always toward the paddlefloat, turn over so that you're sitting down. Don't take your hand and weight off the paddleshaft until you're sure that you're sitting upright. > >My experience is that with folks who are heavier than average and/or do not >have good upper body strength, the loop is necessary to re-enter the cockpit. Same here. I remember teaching wet exits and self rescues last summer and a woman that just flat out did not have the upper body strength to re-enter the cockpit without some assistance. >For the fitter crowd, it just makes mounting the deck easier, and less >fatiguing. In a recent posting someone asked under what situations a reentry and roll might not be the best self rescue technique and my first thought was "when your ability to do so might cause fatigue". Even if someone can reenter the cockpit with a stirrup "most of the time", using up a lot of energy trying to re-enter the cockpit will make subsequent tries that much more difficult. > >BTW, I thought T-rescues were disfavored because in the conditions where you >would need a T-rescue, most likely it would be so rough the T-rescue would be >unworkable and/or hazardous to life and limb. Could be I have confused the T >with another rescue. The version of the T I know is called "TX" in my 1988 >edition of Dowd's Sea Kayaking (page 123). I also thought the difference between a T rescue and a T-X rescue was that in the latter the capsized boat is brought complete across the rescuers boat (thus forming an X) to empty water from the cockpit. In a T rescue, the swimmer pushes down on the stern while the rescuer lifts up on the bow and most of the water will be emptied. The kayak is then spun over quickly and put back into the water bow to stern. The rescuer then leans on the empty boat while the swimmer attempts reentry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:36 AM 3/8/00 PST, "Allison Corning" <acorning_at_hotmail.com> wrote: >I was watching a video of rescue techniques the other day and saw mostly the >usual stuff, paddlefloats, t rescues etc. and then the hosts did a >modification on their paddle float rescue where they attached nylon webbing >to the paddle shaft and made a stirrup-the person then stepped into the >stirrup and was given a "boost" back into the kayak. I'm looking at this >tape and thinking to myself "you've got to be kidding me". I've been >religeously practicing my self rescues and am always looking for good >alternate ways, but even the hosts took quite a while to arrange the >stirrups just right-I get annoyed enough at the time it takes to inflate the >paddlefloat, I can't imagine that taking the time to attach stirrup would be >at all helpful. Has anyone ever actually done this? > I've tried this when when it was demonstrated while taking a class in an indoor pool. The advantage is that you can help someone with low upper body strength. Naturally, you would take the time, before-hand, to construct a loop that is just right for you (or them). I think that using this technique with a single kayak is very hard to do in rough water. With the boat pitching about, threading the loop around would be hard. In addition, when using your paddle to support the loop, you don't get as much extention on the padddlefloat side, so there's less support from the float. I think this technique might have some merit for a two boat rescue. With the two boats parallel and paddles between them, a stirrup could be a help to a paddler in the water and would not require a paddlefloat. Some have, in the past, suggested that you could make a loop to go around the cockpit coaming to also act like a stirrup thus eliminating the need to thread paddles. I also am considering carrying a solid paddlefloat in the winter to minimize the "blow-up time". Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > I also thought the difference between a T rescue and a T-X rescue was that > in the latter the capsized boat is brought complete across the rescuers > boat (thus forming an X) to empty water from the cockpit. In a T rescue, > the swimmer pushes down on the stern while the rescuer lifts up on the bow > and most of the water will be emptied. The kayak is then spun over quickly > and put back into the water bow to stern. The rescuer then leans on the > empty boat while the swimmer attempts reentry. OK. I know that one, John. Now I know that's the "T." The TX is the discredited one, I believe. BTW, we have used the "T" under battle conditions (not much swell or chop, though), and it is a sweet thing -- guy was back in in less than 2 minutes, I think. Pumping was the slow part, even though most of the water was out. Thanks for the clarification. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:36 AM 3/8/00 PST, Allison Corning wrote: >This kind of jumps onto the self rescue thread that just popped up... > >I was watching a video of rescue techniques the other day and saw mostly the >usual stuff, paddlefloats, t rescues etc. and then the hosts did a >modification on their paddle float rescue where they attached nylon webbing >to the paddle shaft and made a stirrup-the person then stepped into the >stirrup and was given a "boost" back into the kayak. I'm looking at this >tape and thinking to myself "you've got to be kidding me". I've been >religeously practicing my self rescues and am always looking for good >alternate ways, but even the hosts took quite a while to arrange the >stirrups just right-I get annoyed enough at the time it takes to inflate the >paddlefloat, I can't imagine that taking the time to attach stirrup would be >at all helpful. Has anyone ever actually done this? > >Allison, Who just discovered a 15 foot square patch of open water on the >lake and is rooting for the melt to continue... > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:36 AM 3/8/00 PST, Allison Corning wrote: >I was watching a video of rescue techniques the other day and saw mostly the >usual stuff, paddlefloats, t rescues etc. and then the hosts did a >modification on their paddle float rescue where they attached nylon webbing >to the paddle shaft and made a stirrup-the person then stepped into the >stirrup and was given a "boost" back into the kayak. I'm looking at this >tape and thinking to myself "you've got to be kidding me". I've been >religeously practicing my self rescues and am always looking for good >alternate ways, but even the hosts took quite a while to arrange the >stirrups just right-I get annoyed enough at the time it takes to inflate the >paddlefloat, I can't imagine that taking the time to attach stirrup would be >at all helpful. Has anyone ever actually done this? Sorry about the blip earlier, I was futzing with a keyboard that quit working and managed to send a reply that I couldn't type. I keep a sling permanently attached to my boat -- it's about 3/16" rope, fixed in a yoke to the seat attachment bolts, and runs down to a loop with a short length of PVC piping. It can be deployed in a matter of seconds. I probably would be unable to do a paddlefloat re-entry without it. -- Wes Who is proof that there are fat kayakers that smoke (although a lot less than I used to.) > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 3/8/00 4:25:57 PM, WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov writes: << I also am considering carrying a solid paddlefloat in the winter to minimize the "blow-up time". >> The solids are certainly faster. I use them a lot while teaching but I much prefer the blow up for my on board unit. Of course neither one would get much use in any event. Try it and see which you prefer. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You can attach a loop directly to the paddleshaft which is quick and easy, but the loop can slide out from the boat and if you rig under the kayak on both sides of the shaft it gets to be a lot of fussing about. Around the cockpit is an Ok way to go, but even then if you have a person who is overweight or has not mastered swimming up onto the kayak they will fail using this. It takes almost no upper body strength to get up on a kayak once you master the technique. If I have a student who is having trouble getting in during a rafting up rescue they often don't do much better with a sling, and I hate all the fuss of rigging one. A little coaching on good swimming onto the deck technique and a good tug on the shoulder strap of their PFD is usually more effective for an assited rescue. As for self rescue solo with slings my parents have adopted a method in their double where they have one inch nylon webbing slings attached behind their seats and kept safe from becoming an entanglement hazard by being under elastic bungie cords when not in use. They can get in without the slings, but both are in their 70s and it is hard for them to get onto the high deck of a double without lots of bruises. I think prior to getting the slings their neighbors around the lake suspected them of spousal abuse from all the bruises! Dave Kruger wrote: > Allison Corning wrote: > > > I was watching a video of rescue techniques the other day and saw mostly the > > usual stuff, paddlefloats, t rescues etc. and then the hosts did a > > modification on their paddle float rescue where they attached nylon webbing > > to the paddle shaft and made a stirrup-the person then stepped into the > > stirrup and was given a "boost" back into the kayak. I'm looking at this > > tape and thinking to myself "you've got to be kidding me". > > Less cumbersome and quicker is to carry a loop of webbing which will fit around > the cockpit and hang down in the water so the paddler can get her/his foot into > it to help him/her back into the cockpit. Some forethought is necessary: put > a carabiner (or similar) on the loop so it will slide to the low point of the > end of the loop in the water, and also attach a float so the whole thing will > not disappear into the briny deep. > > My experience is that with folks who are heavier than average and/or do not > have good upper body strength, the loop is necessary to re-enter the cockpit. > For the fitter crowd, it just makes mounting the deck easier, and less > fatiguing. Takes less than 15 seconds to deploy, and the entrapment hazard is > minimal, because the loop is not firmly attached to the yak. > > BTW, I thought T-rescues were disfavored because in the conditions where you > would need a T-rescue, most likely it would be so rough the T-rescue would be > unworkable and/or hazardous to life and limb. Could be I have confused the T > with another rescue. The version of the T I know is called "TX" in my 1988 > edition of Dowd's Sea Kayaking (page 123). > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I recently saw a sling with a stirrup. The stirrup was held open by some piece of plastic and there was webbing which prevented the foot from slipping through the opening. I don't remember how the bitter end attached to the boat or coaming. But, the contraption was clever idea, so I thought. > From: wanewman_at_uswest.net > Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:19:15 -0600 > To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > Cc: PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] self rescue techniques > > You can attach a loop directly to the paddleshaft which is quick and easy, but > the > loop can slide out from the boat and if you rig under the kayak on both sides > of > the shaft it gets to be a lot of fussing about. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
wanewman_at_uswest.net wrote: > > You can attach a loop directly to the paddleshaft which is quick and easy, > but the loop can slide out from the boat and if you rig under the kayak on > both sides of the shaft it gets to be a lot of fussing about. Around the > cockpit is an Ok way to go, but even then if you have a person who is > overweight or has not mastered swimming up onto the kayak **they will fail > using this.** [emphasis added] Not my experience with a couple folks who are heavy and do not have good strength. The loop around the coaming worked fine. How are your folks entering the cockpit? Upper body over the rear deck, yes? Then legs in the cockpit and rotate torso/body to seating config, yes? The loop helped my folks get their upper body onto the back deck. How did it fail for your folks? What did not work? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Generally they are not getting their body flat and the loop either swings under the boat or they try to stand straight up on the loop. For an assisted rescue I like to grab them and drag them. Very undignified but it helps them stay flat as I pull them on the aft deck. For self rescue a sling can help folks, but they still need to keep their center of gravity low and slide up onto the back dech rather than stand up on the side of the boat. When the water is not to cold I like to have students practice swimming up on their kayaks rear deck without a paddle float until they get the concept that the float is for balance, and it should not be used to put your full weight on! If you want the sling for self rescue I really like the webbing sling idea that my parents use. No rigging required just grab it from under the elastics and pop right in the boat. They are fairly fit for folks in their 70s, but it makes it a lot easier than getting in without them. Dave Kruger wrote: > wanewman_at_uswest.net wrote: > > > > You can attach a loop directly to the paddleshaft which is quick and easy, > > but the loop can slide out from the boat and if you rig under the kayak on > > both sides of the shaft it gets to be a lot of fussing about. Around the > > cockpit is an Ok way to go, but even then if you have a person who is > > overweight or has not mastered swimming up onto the kayak **they will fail > > using this.** [emphasis added] > > Not my experience with a couple folks who are heavy and do not have good > strength. The loop around the coaming worked fine. > > How are your folks entering the cockpit? Upper body over the rear deck, yes? > Then legs in the cockpit and rotate torso/body to seating config, yes? > > The loop helped my folks get their upper body onto the back deck. > > How did it fail for your folks? What did not work? > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob & I each carry a "ladder" - i's basically a loop, but with two "steps made by knotting the line and stringing it through 6" PVC pipe. The loop is large enough to go around the cockpit, and the steps make it even easier to climb in. It's pssible to just whip it out of the pocket, get it around the cockpit and climb right in. I don't have much upper body strength and, while my ability to re-enter the kayak has improved greatly, especially when I'm tired, it's very useful. Joan On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:12:06 -0500 Bill Leonhardt <WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov> writes: > At 07:36 AM 3/8/00 PST, "Allison Corning" <acorning_at_hotmail.com> > wrote: > > >I was watching a video of rescue techniques the other day and saw > mostly the > >usual stuff, paddlefloats, t rescues etc. and then the hosts did a > >modification on their paddle float rescue where they attached nylon > webbing > >to the paddle shaft and made a stirrup-the person then stepped into > the > >stirrup and was given a "boost" back into the kayak. I'm looking at > this > >tape and thinking to myself "you've got to be kidding me". I've > been > >religeously practicing my self rescues and am always looking for > good > >alternate ways, but even the hosts took quite a while to arrange > the > >stirrups just right-I get annoyed enough at the time it takes to > inflate the > >paddlefloat, I can't imagine that taking the time to attach stirrup > would be > >at all helpful. Has anyone ever actually done this? > > > > I've tried this when when it was demonstrated while taking a class > in an > indoor pool. The advantage is that you can help someone with low > upper > body strength. Naturally, you would take the time, before-hand, to > construct a loop that is just right for you (or them). > > I think that using this technique with a single kayak is very hard > to do in > rough water. With the boat pitching about, threading the loop > around would > be hard. In addition, when using your paddle to support the loop, > you > don't get as much extention on the padddlefloat side, so there's > less > support from the float. > > I think this technique might have some merit for a two boat rescue. > With > the two boats parallel and paddles between them, a stirrup could be > a help > to a paddler in the water and would not require a paddlefloat. > > Some have, in the past, suggested that you could make a loop to go > around > the cockpit coaming to also act like a stirrup thus eliminating the > need to > thread paddles. > > I also am considering carrying a solid paddlefloat in the winter to > minimize the "blow-up time". > > Bill Leonhardt > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If it's like the one I use, the sling would just go around the cockpit, under the coaming. Joan On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 09:11:21 -0600 "Robert C. Cline" <rccline_at_swbell.net> writes: > I recently saw a sling with a stirrup. The stirrup was held open by > some > piece of plastic and there was webbing which prevented the foot from > slipping through the opening. > > I don't remember how the bitter end attached to the boat or coaming. > But, > the contraption was clever idea, so I thought. > > > > > From: wanewman_at_uswest.net > > Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:19:15 -0600 > > To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > > Cc: PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] self rescue techniques > > > > You can attach a loop directly to the paddleshaft which is quick > and easy, but > > the > > loop can slide out from the boat and if you rig under the kayak on > both sides > > of > > the shaft it gets to be a lot of fussing about. > > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:10 PDT