I was recently told that one of the requirements of BCU Coach awards is the use of a feathered paddle. Someone else told me last night that the ACA requires the same of it's instructors. I have paddled unfeathered since my start in this sport, because is seemed more logical than the use of a feathered paddle. I still believe that there is no significant advantage to the use of feathered over unfeathered. Believe me, I've heard enough of the arguments, I just don't believe the facts prove that feathered is superior. So here I am, a soon to be "official" 3 star paddler, with dreams of teaching, but using an unfeathered paddle. Since I'm not ready to abandon my desire to teach, I find that I am forced to not just learn to paddle feathered but really to take my 3 star test with a feathered paddle. Can anyone confirm or refute these claims of required feathered paddle use? I'm really not looking to troll for an argument. Save your breath, I will still believe that unfeathered is better. But if I have to switch to become certified to teach, then I *will* switch. C'est la guerre! Thank you in advance for your factual responses regarding BCU / ACA policy and thanks to the rest of you for not trying to sway my beliefs regarding the feathered / unfeathered debate. Jed Luby Goffstown, NH *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Oh Jed, The secret handshake rears it's ugly head. Really Jed I'd sooner start an argument, ah, I mean discussion about the existence of God, then to raise the feathered vs. unfeathered debate. I know that there are a lot of good BCU and ACA instructors as well as some not so good ones. Same goes for non certified instructors. My question is this, if they require you to wear orange undies two sizes too small will you? Cheers, Rob Cookson- who always paddles feathered but knows some fine paddlers who paddle unfeathered. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of > LedJube_at_aol.com > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 11:57 AM > To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] Help! I'm being assimilated! Resistance is futile! > > > I was recently told that one of the requirements of BCU Coach > awards is > the use of a feathered paddle. Someone else told me last night > that the ACA > requires the same of it's instructors. > I have paddled unfeathered since my start in this sport, because is > seemed more logical than the use of a feathered paddle. I still > believe that > there is no significant advantage to the use of feathered over > unfeathered. > Believe me, I've heard enough of the arguments, I just don't believe the > facts prove that feathered is superior. So here I am, a soon to > be "official" > 3 star paddler, with dreams of teaching, but using an unfeathered paddle. > Since I'm not ready to abandon my desire to teach, I find that I > am forced to > not just learn to paddle feathered but really to take my 3 star > test with a > feathered paddle. > > Can anyone confirm or refute these claims of required > feathered paddle > use? > > I'm really not looking to troll for an argument. Save your > breath, I will > still believe that unfeathered is better. But if I have to switch > to become > certified to teach, then I *will* switch. C'est la guerre! > Thank you in advance for your factual responses regarding BCU / ACA > policy and thanks to the rest of you for not trying to sway my beliefs > regarding the feathered / unfeathered debate. > > Jed Luby > Goffstown, NH > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the > author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
LedJube_at_aol.com wrote: > I was recently told that one of the requirements of BCU Coach awards is > the use of a feathered paddle. Someone else told me last night that the ACA > requires the same of it's instructors. > I have paddled unfeathered since my start in this sport, because is > seemed more logical than the use of a feathered paddle. I still believe that > there is no significant advantage to the use of feathered over unfeathered. When I took the BCU coach II assessment we had someone there with a Greenland paddle and they made them take the entire assessment over the next day with a Feathered Euro-style paddle. The BCU in general seems to have a strong bias toward paddling feathered the ACA less so. Regardless as an instructor you need to be able to explain the advantages and disadvantages of both and teach both feathered and unfeathered paddle technique. When I teach an ACA 8 hour course I usually start with the students paddles unfeathered, since they have an easier time intially with an unfeather paddle, but then make them switch to feathered at the end of the on the water session. I started out first in my parents folding boats, then whitewater,then sea kayaking, but always from age 3 paddled a feathered blade. It is awkward for me to demonstrate paddling unfeathered but I think you owe it to your students to decide for themselves. Since I paddle feathered I am sure my class gives the students a bit of a bias toward paddling feathered, but I would never dream of only demonstrating and teaching feathered paddling. Also the BCU and ACA differ in what they teach for certain techniques like the T-rescue. If teaching the ACA format I show them the ACA version and explain what I do or don't like about it, but I also show the BCU way and teach them when and where I would prefer using their version of the rescue. I feel you need to teach the format of a given BCU or ACA course, but you owe the students your personal experiences and the methods and techniques that you have learned from other programs and other paddlers. You have every right to teach them what you prefer and why, but try not limit them with your own preferences or predjudices. What works well for one person may not work for another - make sure the student gets to know all of their options. > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 5/1/00 8:11:00 PM, wanewman_at_uswest.net writes: << I feel you need to teach the format of a given BCU or ACA course, but you owe the students your personal experiences and the methods and techniques that you have learned from other programs and other paddlers. You have every right to teach them what you prefer and why, but try not limit them with your own preferences or prejudices. What works well for one person may not work for another - make sure the student gets to know all of their options. >> I couldn't agree more. I will certainly tell my students how feathered technique is more universally accepted. I may even teach the course feathered. I just needed to clarify the BCU / ACA requirements for certification. I agree further that it's important to teach both the BCU and the ACA version of various techniques. There's no such thing as too much information. They will choose what works for them. Thanks for your input. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wanewman_at_uswest.net wrote the rather well-balanced response regarding the ACA and BCU "requirements" that certified instructors paddle feathered. > ... as an instructor you need to be able to explain the advantages and disadvantages of both and teach both feathered and unfeathered paddle technique. > I feel you need to teach the format of a given BCU or ACA course, but you owe the students your personal experiences and the methods and techniques that you have learned from other programs and other paddlers. You have every right to teach them what you prefer and why, but try not limit them with your own preferences or prejudices. What works well for one person may not work for another - make sure the student gets to know all of their options. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, As a member of the ACA's national instruction committee working to establish safety and skills standards, as an Instructor Trainer Educator (currently the ACA's highest level of certification, an ITE certifies Instructor Trainers to go on to certify Instructors), as well as a long-time paddler, I was of course appalled by this sort of response. After all, isn't it tradition for sea kayakers to be firmly rooted on one side or the other of the feathered-vs.-unfeathered issue, and then to defend that position to the death? I mean, if the truth gets out that we certified instructors have minds of our own and prefer to demonstrate both techniques, then what will happen to our reputation as "kayak nazis." What will happen if the general public ever gets the idea that the ACA and BCU are actually more interested in furthering safety and skills training than in blade angle? What will paddlers argue about if we admit that the feathered/unfeathered thing is not that big of a deal? We could end up having to move on to other issues that are actually important. What a can of worms that might be. Better to stick with the conservative, well-worn arguments, so no one gets hurt. Personally, I do "require" that the instructor candidates I'm certifying show the ability to demonstrate strokes using a feathered blade. My reasoning is that anyone who can paddle feathered will also be able to do it the normal way, the easy way, the right way. But for those misguided students who may want to experiment with paddling on "the dark side" and twist their blades at weird angles, an "ambi-featherous" instructor will be able to accommodate. To set the record straight, at the level of Instructor Trainer Educator, I of course tow the ACA party line and paddle feathered: my whitewater and surfing paddle is twisted all the way to 45 degrees, and my touring stick I paddle feathered to a full 0 degrees. Roger Schumann *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ACA CITE R. Schumann writes: > What will paddlers argue about if we admit that the feathered/unfeathered thing is > not that big of a deal? We could end up having to move on to other issues that > are actually important. HAHA! And those more important topics might be?? Wood vs Plastic vs Fiberglass vs Kevlar?? BIG blades vs small blades?? Chine vs round?? Skeg vs Rudder?? Tracking vs manuverability?? Displacement vs planning?? Paddle float vs sp*ns*n?? Steve Scherrer <ww/surf 45º- tour 0º> Alder Creek Kayak and Canoe 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr Portland, OR 97217 Phone: 503.285.0464 Fax: 503.285.0106 Web site: http://www.aldercreek.com Email: acks_at_teleport.com ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eskape Sea Kayaking" *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
R. Schumann writes: > What will paddlers argue about if we admit that the feathered/unfeathered thing is > not that big of a deal? We could end up having to move on to other issues that > are actually important. Steve posed several questions: HAHA! >And those more important topics might be?? >Wood vs Plastic vs Fiberglass vs Kevlar?? Kevlar is best. No question. Lighter, stronger, etc. >BIG blades vs small blades?? Small is better. No doubt. Easier on joints, more efficient. >Chine vs round?? Chine, of course. How can you even ask? Can you set an edge on round? >Skeg vs Rudder?? Rudder much better. Gives finer control, more efficient on long trips. Who could seriously question this obvious conclusion? >Tracking vs maneuverability?? Tracking. We are talking sea not ww kayaks. If you want to play get a go-cart. >Displacement vs planning?? What the heck does this mean? Paddle float vs sp*ns*n?? SPONSON. Try em you'll like em. No one who thinks about it could possibly come to any other conclusion. There. These matters are finally put to bed. No further discussion necessary. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 5/3/00 1:04:55 AM, acks_at_teleport.com writes: << Steve Scherrer <ww/surf 45º- tour 0º> >> Et tu, Stevus? I'm pleasantly surprised to find so many nonconformists. Viva La Resistance!! Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Where were you ten years ago? That's how long I have been Debating these issues on the WEB. Be the way you are wrong on almost every point! :) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve wrote: >HAHA! >And those more important topics might be?? >Wood vs Plastic vs Fiberglass vs Kevlar?? Wood. >BIG blades vs small blades?? Doesn't matter, as long as they're wood. >Chine vs round?? Round cedar strip, or chine stitch & glue, or chine skin-on-frame, provided the frame is wood. >Skeg vs Rudder?? Wooden retractable skeg or all-wood rudder >Tracking vs manuverability?? Miracle Fiber W will let you build a boat with both! >Displacement vs planning?? Wood displacement hull, or wood planing hull (ala ChrisCraft). >Paddle float vs sp*ns*n?? um... Shawn ;) -- Shawn W. Baker 0 46°53'N © 2000 ____©/______ 114°06'W ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ baker_at_montana.com 0 http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:38 AM 05/03/2000 -0600, Shawn W. Baker wrote: >Wood. >wood. >wood. >all-wood >Miracle Fiber W >Wood >>Paddle float vs sp*ns*n?? >um... !! Oh, come on !! Shawn, don't let us down! How about wood paddle floats and wood sponsons? It could happen !! (The wood PFD is on the drawing boards now. I got the idea from "Titanic.") jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>At 09:38 AM 05/03/2000 -0600, Shawn W. Baker wrote: >>wood. >>all-wood yes >>Miracle Fiber W yes >>>Paddle float vs sp*ns*n?? >>um... >!! Oh, come on !! Shawn, don't let us down! How about wood paddle floats and wood sponsons? It could happen !! (The wood PFD is on the drawing boards now. I got the idea from "Titanic.") It's called cork, not easy to find them (cork PFDs) now, suggest a museum. Alex . . Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi all... The Australian Canoeing Award Scheme is agnostic as far as paddle feathering is concerned: assessors must satisfy themselves that candidates can perform the necessary skills whatever the style of paddle. Most serious Aus paddlers use feathered paddles, but there are a few who paddle unfeathered, and all the Instructors I know would suggest that spare paddles that can be set up unfeathered can be useful for people with wrist problems. Anyone interested in Aus Canoeing Award Scheme requirements will find the Handbook online (as PDF) linked from <www.canoesa.asn.au/ed.html>. You might also find <www.canoesa.asn.au/ed/seakayak.html>, on equipping sea boats, interesting. Cheers, Peter pcarter_at_acslink.net.au allegedly <www.acslink.net.au/~pcarter> temporarily <users.senet.com.au/~pcarter> 34deg 55' 30" S 138deg 32' 4" E *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 5/9/00 9:35:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, postmaster_at_eskapekayak.com writes: > > My understanding with the T rescue is that having the swimmer move to the > bow of the kayak that is assisting them is "old school." A more modern > technique has them move to their own stern and push down on it while the > assistant raises the upside down bow. Putting the swimmer in a more active > role in their own rescue can make the whole rescue go faster, snip> Unfortunately, this approach also puts the swimmer in contact with the rudder (on boats having rudders) which can result in entrapment or injury from the cables, fittings and rudder blade as the boat is rolled over and then commences to bounce up and down in the waves next to the swimmers vulnerable face and eyes. This is one reason that I show this method only to those who may be paddling as couples where one is large and strong, the other incapable of lifting the bow in a T-rescue. As you imply, rescues should be geared to the experience and condition of the paddler as well as the existing sea conditions AND the type of boat. We need to have lots of tools in our skills kit and practice, practice, practice. Harold So. Cal. / 30-45 second rescues without swimmer contacting rudder. 8^) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I am also a fan of the method Jan mentions - and not just because of my ACA affiliation. It may be a judgement call in certain situations as to whether or not you send the swimmer to the stern. If you are practiced at this you can get a paddler back in very quickly, and they aren't sitting in water and pumping for a length of time. Without going into detail, I rescued a "brand new" kayaker last week. He flipped over, wet-exited, and was a little dis-oriented. I got to his boat, gave him the directions, and we had him out of the water in no time. As it turns out he was wearing jeans and t-shirt, and so was cold and headed right back to the shore. I suppose when buying a boat one can take rescues, etc, into consideration as well.....not to "dis" any equipment, but some rudders are more low profile than others, locking into place for various reasons (foot pedal stability, etc.) Andree Hurley - http://www.viewit.com/ Viewit Dot Com - Websites for Specialty Businesses On Water Sports, Kayaking Resources - http://www.onwatersports.com -Now selling the Garmin GPS and Accessories- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:39 pm 9/05/00 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 5/9/00 9:35:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >postmaster_at_eskapekayak.com writes: >Unfortunately, this approach also puts the swimmer in contact with the rudder >(on boats having rudders) Why not simply have them reach over the upturned hull, mid-way between cockpit and stern. They put their weight on the hull and pull towards themselves, assisting with the lifting of the bow and righting the kayak all in one movement. They are out of the way of the rudder, unlikely to fall off the stern and loose contact with the boat and near the cockpit to start re-entry. Alex . . Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My understanding of BCU training for the T rescue corresponds with Jan's -- that the rescuer has leeway to exercise judgment regarding where the swimmer goes prior to re-entering the boat. That said, the consensus among the people I paddle with is that, other things being equal, it's best for the swimmer to hold onto his/her own boat and paddle while the rescuer empties and positions the boat for the re-entry. This way, if anything separates the rescuer from the swamped boat, the swimmer still has their equipment and will act as a brake to prevent the boat from scudding away rapidly before the wind. The swimmer surrenders the paddle to the rescuer only when ready to re-enter the boat. Of course this presupposes that the swimmer is able to maintain a good grasp of boat and paddle. Having the swimmer take an active role in emptying the boat (by pushing down on the stern on the rescuer's cue) helps, but it probably only saves time if the swimmer has practiced this. Bob V >Jan here, speaking as one of the 8 ACA Instructor Trainers (ITs)on the West >Coast. I believe each of the ACA Instructor Trainers has some leeway on the >variation of steps to a rescue. Although I have no personal experience with >BCU evaluations, I understand through stories, that there may be variation >among BCU programs as well. The "proving grounds" of a rescue is its >performance in some wind and chop or tidal currents. All of the ITs that I >have seen on the water have rough water rescues that take less than one >minute, without letting any paddles or gear get loose in the water. In >Central California, the water temperature is often between 50 and 60 >degrees, so speed is important. > >My understanding with the T rescue is that having the swimmer move to the >bow of the kayak that is assisting them is "old school." A more modern >technique has them move to their own stern and push down on it while the >assistant raises the upside down bow. Putting the swimmer in a more active >role in their own rescue can make the whole rescue go faster, communication >needs to be clear and direct and practicing helps. If the swimmer is so out >of it that they cannot help, I would recommend a "re-enter and pump" style >rescue where the kayak is simply righted, stabilized so that the swimmer can >get back in, and then as many pumps as are available and can reach the >cockpit can be used to drain the cockpit. Wherever the swimmer goes, it is >crucial that they maintain contact with the kayaks. > >Best wishes, >Jan Shriner >ESKAPE Sea Kayaking >(831) 427-2297. Web Page: http://www.eskapekayak.com > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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