I've been thinking of raising this question, and Melissa's post sort of prompted me. I suspect it will be another "controversial" one, but I think it is one that really has to be addressed -- and this is as good a group as there is, anywhere, to address it, IMO. The issue is: licensing. For many years, I have vehemently opposed the occasional suggestion that users of water craft be required to pass certain tests and obtain a (revocable) license. Lately, I am reconsidering my position. I see so many idiots out on the water. . . I get tired of it, as I suppose many of us do. More importantly, the consequences of the thoughtless, uninformed, uncaring use of the waterways by people who don't know what they are doing or don't care will probably result in things far worse than licensing -- like more limited access, increased prohibitions on water craft in certain areas, etc. So, I ask you, fine Paddlewisers, why not require licensing? Why not say that anyone who operates a craft of any sort on any waterway in the US must first obtain a license showing that they have certain knowledge and skills? There could be different levels of licensing, just as there are with motor vehicles (eg, motorcycles, trucks, cars etc). Certain rules would apply to the use of water craft, and violations of those rules could result in revocation of the license to operate. There could be exceptions that would allow non-licensed people to operate certain types of craft if they are with licensed operators (this would take care of the guided tour companies, etc., and could allow for new users to be introduced to the sport). I wonder if the best thing isn't for some responsible, knowledgeable people who do use water craft to start working on proposed legislation now, before less informed, less well-intentioned people do it. Mind you, I'm not *proposing* this per se -- I'm thinking out loud about a subject that has troubled me for some time. I'm not sure what I think about it. What do you think? Mark (donning flame suit) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 06:12 PM 7/22/00 -0400, Sailboat Restorations, Inc. wrote: >(Lotsa snippola) > >I wonder if the best thing isn't for some responsible, knowledgeable people >who do use water craft to start working on proposed legislation now, before >less informed, less well-intentioned people do it. Mind you, I'm not >*proposing* this per se -- I'm thinking out loud about a subject that has >troubled me for some time. I'm not sure what I think about it. What do you >think? I hate, dread, and detest the thought. The idea is to get out a little bit beyond the need for lisences, permits and the like and to enjoy a little bit of elbow room. The idea is to resent a world in which the do-gooders keep you from doing anything that's remotely fun because they think it might be dangerous for you. At least, that's the dream. Get out on any multiple use body of water, and liscensing starts to make a little sense. We do, for instance, in Michigan require kids to be 14, and have gone through a training course, to run a jetski -- yet when I go out on a jetski lake, I can look at perhaps one of ten jetskiiers, and say, "Kid, there's no way you're old enough to run that thing." Enforcement isn't doing the job. But while many boaters, of every persuasion, are reasonably competent and safe, there are many that are not. This spring, I went through a USCG Auxiliary safe boating course. I didn't learn much that I didn't already know -- mostly, some bits and pieces about marine radio -- but wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something important. The problem is that you'll never get the bozo troublemakers into that kind of minimal training without some sort of legal requirement, and that may well not be enough. In this state, for example, it's required that you go through a hunter safety class to be able to get a hunting liscense -- unless you were old enough to have a hunting liscense before the law went into effect. Slowly, there are getting to be more and more people out there that have minimal hunter safety training, for whatever good it does them. And, hunting safety related accidents are showing a little decline. While there are some positive sides to boater liscensing, there are some negatives. Would the gain from the positive be worth the increase in regulation in an already over-regulated world? Tough question. At the moment, I vote no -- but then I wonder . . . -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Licensing is an oppressive government action, requiring the services of a police state to enforce it. I advocate a free-market solution ;-), a partnership between government and industry, the consensus irritation terminator (CIT). When a jetskier makes an idiot out of himself (strange how it's so seldom "herself"), he does it to impress others, and for the sheer hedonistic thrill, others be damned. The CIT lets the rest of us vote on the idiot. It starts with you, the kayaker, pressing your CIT after you negotiate the 3' wave the jetskier sends your way. Your CIT sends out a brief radio call on the polling frequency, alerting other paddlers, beachcombers, fishermen, and homeowners who desire solitude. If they agree with you that the jetskier is an idiot, they add their votes to yours, and when critical mass is achieved, a shut-off valve (let's call it OBD-4, after the On Board Diagnostics mandated in our cars) is activated, and the jetskier is DIW (dead in the water) for an hour. The jetskier gets his wish - he's impressed all of us, and we get ours, silence for an hour. If he happens to drift into the rocks, destroying his jetski, he experiences heightened hedonism, and he earned his reward. The jetski and boat manufacturers would voluntarily install OBD-4 devices onboard their watercraft when threatened with oppressive OBD-5 legislation. OBD-4 computerized devices could be programmed to permanently destroy the engine if an offender garnered enough negative votes in a day, such as a second offense within 3 hours. OBD-4 would send signals to allow law enforcement to track repeat offenders, too. CIT has significant social benefits. Neighbors could vote CIT to silence the rock band (via OBD-4 on their amplifiers and drum tensioners) that won't shut up at 10:00 p.m. They could cripple the Harley Davidson rider who rockets up the street at 5:30 a.m. Someone lights up a cigarette in a non-smoking area. Press your CITs, and restaurant management is alerted to call in Steve the Ape. CIT allows the offended to get their vote, anonymously, with soul-satisfying immediate effects. Got an offending kayaker who peers into your sex life on your sailboat? Get a few others in your yacht club to join you in pressing their CITs and the OBD-4 in his paddle breaks it at its joining point. Are birdwatchers bothering you because your feeder attracts the nation's only breeding colony of Black-whiskered Bulbuls? Get your wife and kids to also press their CITs and the OBD-4 in the birdwatchers' binoculars leaves them focusing on infinity. Is your wife a nag? If your inlaws agree via CIT, the OBD-5 in her braces leaves her unable to speak for a blessed hour of relief. Cheating on your wife? If your girlfriends agree via CIT, you get a Bobbetectomy from their OBD-4 chastity belts when you least expect it. Bubba Harvey (who won't reveal his middle name, but it might be Jed, or Jeff) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/23/00 1:27:22 PM, snorkler_at_juno.com writes: << The CIT lets the rest of us vote on the idiot. >> Sounds like an old Star Trek episode. I have to admit it is a temptation for most people to just make yet another NEW law to limit a danger/nuisance. It clearly doesn't work in a free society. It didn't work in my family as we grew up. Dad would make a new rule every time something happened. I'm glad he mostly forgot them a few days later. You can't legislate common sence. We ALL know that. We can mandate that people honor the space and safety of others but if there is not enough enforcement, who cares about yet another new rule? Deaf drivers still drive down the road or park in from of you house with the music at 100 dbl! They still run red lights unless the camera at that intersection if REAL obvious. I'll bet the jet skier who zipped around me at a very good clip, thank you very much, thought he was being nice in not getting any closer. Slowing down so that his spray didn't drench me wasn't even an option in his mind. That was just this afternoon! That was after I went to the aid of a PWC that was DIW. I paddled over and the fellow, 55+, says he had too much water in the bilge for him to mount the thing. I started to go get a tow rope but managed to flag a passing motor boat that took him back to the other side of the cove. The driver of the boat wasn't thrilled but couldn't figure out how to get out of it. Point is that we will help each other, even when we don't want to. We have different perceptions of what is the best or safest course of action. I kind of like some boat wake to play on. So, for all boats to drop down so there is no wake isn't what I'd choose all the time. I don't think the Jet Skis have a very good wake. This butthead today was maybe 15 feet from me in one of their hairpin turns. I got soaked with spray but the wake was nominal. I hardly rocked. If I had any intentions of staying dry I would have been even more pissed. I just had to wipe my eyes because I started out soaked from rolling. I was less upset than the couple in front of me would have been if he's gotten them. They had no spray skirts and were wearing glasses with no holders. Do I think education is essential to the safety of people using things that can hurt them or others? I spent yesterday helping out in an informal class for new paddlers just because I was asked to help out. The 6 people we worked with learned a lot. I SAW the results of the time we spent. It was great fun for me. I like teaching and I like learning even more. Everyone isn't like that. I have some politically incorrect ideas of how I'd deal with non-learners but until I have a James Bond car I'll just have to use the web to vent to the choir. Like others, I see more legalistic paperwork only as a restriction for those who already obey the existing regulations. Who is going to pay for/provide instructors for prospective paddlers in the middle of nowhere? A license is more like official sanction for being stupid to those so inclined. I see nothing good out of more restrictions. Joan Spinner * * * Trying to paddle on the Chesapeake Bay watershed-a red, CD Breeze and a yellow/white CD Gulfstream *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Subject: [Paddlewise] Licensing [was Crab Pots Rescued] >Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 18:12:02 -0400 > Interesting question. I'm not sure how I feel about it either. I would never consider riding my motorcycle or bicycle without a helmet, but I resent the nanny government telling me that I have to. Not sure this is a direct analogy, but you get the idea. I am bothered by folks that have no undrstanding of the "Rules of the Road." Or simple courtesy, for that matter. While in the Navy, I was required to demonstrate that I understood the "Rules...", and that I could safely operate the sailboat before I was allowed to rent it. I did not consider this to be a big intrusion. On the other hand... Now, if I could only figure out how to launch a Harpoon anti-ship missle from my kayak without getting fried, that would go a long way towards discouraging dangerous and uncivilized behavior along the waterfront. (tongue firmly planted in my cheek) Fred > >The issue is: licensing. For many years, I have vehemently opposed the >occasional suggestion that users of water craft be required to pass certain >tests and obtain a (revocable) license...Big snip.......So, I ask you, fine >Paddlewisers, why >not require licensing? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Fred Meade wrote: > Now, if I could only figure out how to launch a Harpoon anti-ship missle > from my kayak without getting fried, that would go a long way towards > discouraging dangerous and uncivilized behavior along the waterfront. > (tongue firmly planted in my cheek) These guys seem to have figured it out. http://www.west.net/~lpm/hobie/archives/v1-i2/humor.shtml OBDisclaimer: No, I don't really suggest you do this. Steve Cramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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