Twenty-six years ago, a reviewer criticized my book "A Guide to Paddle Adventure" for having omitted mention of the ACA. Actually, I was flattered. The decision to omit ACA was considered and intentional. The theme of the book was that a canoe or kayak is a basic vehicle in which anyone can achieve a world of enjoyment very inexpensively. The rewards are spiritual. The last thing I wanted to promote was hierarchy and excusion in a hobby that in those days could be accessed by all. Learning yes, of course, but not ranking and, eventually, required courses and licensing. Now that my hair is gray, I still retch at the mention of certification, because I see it as a precursor to licensing. (Admittedly, it might be an alternative rather than a precursor; but it would be a stifling one.) Sure there are fools on the water. Powerboaters and kayakers both. I have had power boaters try to swamp me; and having once been a power boater, I can tell some tales that would raise your hair. But must the American police state regulate everything? And everyone? IMHO, on balance, government is a far more pernicious enemy of joy than any power boater. Case in point: Two years ago, an Illinois DNR macho man mounted guard over my handmade boat because I had not yet received my license numbers in the mail. Since I was not carrying the correspondence and cancelled check relative to the application, I was forbidden to launch. Entire weekend spoiled. When an unobtrusive person cannot put a tiny boat in the Mississippi River without first proving to a cop that the state has stolen his money, things have gone way too far. It will only be worse when the police state licenses the paddler as well as the boat. I will put up with a hell of a lot of rudeness and stupidity and worse to be spared such a situation. Now, I know the world has passed me by. The police state has become so paradigmatic that few on the list will have any understanding, let alone sympathy for my position. But, as for me, count one vote for not only preventing but rolling back all licensing of paddlers (as well as canoes and kayaks) and for rolling back license requirements on power boaters, drivers, gun owners, and all the other fools the various governments have decided are too stupid to behave as the elites who govern us have decreed they should. Contrary to popular belief, these incursions have not made people behave better. They have simply made jobs for the bureaucrats who manage the system, and in whose interest it is to promote still more licensing. It's autocatalytic, folks! Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
serious licensing would put canoe (probably kayak too) rental operations and the like out of business? Dirk Barends *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dirk and group, As a licensed professional mariner for over 35 years, I am a strong advogate of proper licensing of operators. Guides too. Many years ago ... when studying for my origional license .. which was known as a 'six pack', I took the courses offered by the U.S. Power Squadron ... which was quite good .. and at that time FREE ... I don't know about them now. The Coast Guard Auxiliary also has good courses. The basic points are safety ... which would have covered the incident with the boat blowing up at the fuel dock. Fishermen, for years (forever) have been unlicensed. Licensing would not in itself deter 'hot rods' and irresponsible operators ... but, if the fees were applied to more enforcement activities ... I feel that it would be justified. Congress over the last several years has been cutting down on the operational funding required by the U.S. Coast Guard .... some state's and sheriff's offices in localities with a lot of water activity have marine patrols. In order to work as a 'guide' (certified), or a 'tour operator' .... licenses should be required certifying that they are qualified both in local knowledge as well as marine safety and first aid. If a person purporting to offer these services can not pass at least a simple test like this ... they are in the wrong profession. With proper licensing ... the authorities have a means (some what) on controling irresponsible operators ... DUI would incur not only large fines ... but suspension. According to maritime law .... all vessels (including jet skies) are responsible for damage caused by their actions and their wakes ... but how are you going to enforce this if their is no authority. As it is now .... anyone can go out and purchase a boat .... register it ... and operate it without any control or experience. Boats considered artisanal, i.e. canoes, kayaks, small sailboats, etc. should also have some sort of registration ... but exempt from licensing unless the operator is performing some sort of services for pay or hire ... i.e. guides, instructors, tour operators. Someone mentioned some sort of number or plate showing the name of the builder, hull number, etc. This is a good practice ... not only for deterring theft ... but also in case of an accident. Did anyone here anything about the kayak that was found adrift on the Potomac? I was curious about the 'rest of the story'. Capt Donald R. Reid > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Licensing > > > serious licensing would put canoe (probably kayak too) > rental operations and the like out of business? > > Dirk Barends > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> serious licensing would put canoe (probably kayak too) > rental operations and the like out of business? > > Dirk Barends I'm not so sure. Auto licensing hasn't put auto rental places out of business. Although obviously it would cut down dramatically on the "tourist/ un-planned/ spur-of-the-moment" type rentals. But somehow I think that might not be all bad. In general, as I mentioned before, (assuming we get past the notion of licensing at all) I think levels of licensing would be appropriate. For example, Canoe/Flatwater Level: could be obtained by simply passing a short test regarding the use of safety gear and demonstrating an ability to control the boat. (This test could be administered by a rental company, which would have certain responsibilities under the law by virtue of being licensed to administer the test and grant such license.) Kayak/Open Water: could be obtained by demonstrating the above plus an ability to do a wet exit and re-entry, both assisted and unassisted, plus perhaps some other rescue and communications skills. Etc. Regarding the several comments that certain incidents would not have been avoided by a mandatory licensing system -- of course they wouldn't have. Licensing can't stop stupidity. In general, I don't think it should ever be assumed that a law will completely "stop" the offending conduct. Laws against murder have never stopped people from killing people. Laws do have some deterrent effect. But there are at least two other important purposes of laws: (1) to express a collective view of the community -- such as: the community abhors people killing people, or: the community is concerned that boaters be sufficiently skilled to avoid hurting themselves and imposing a cost on the community. And (2) to create a system whereby those who offend our community values can be "punished" in some way -- such as: those who murder go to prison for a long time; or: those who fail to observe our standards for the operation of boats will be fined, or possibly even denied the right to operate boats, either for a period of time, or forever (depending on the offense). Laws against drunk driving don't stop drunk driving, really. But those who repeatedly offend will have their license taken away, and at least that says that we, as a community, don't want them driving. Also, they can then be arrested for driving. All in all, I think one has to recognize the functions of laws, and to acknowledge that they are not a perfect solution, but just one of the only ones we have. Just a couple of thoughts from the peanut gallery. . . Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The question of licensing kayakers reminds me of the major battles and animosities that were flowing a dozen years ago when I came on the scene. Back then the issue was "certification" and who should do it if at all. The camps were divided in many directions with the gurus pretty much at verbal war with each other and even, to a degree, regional sides being taken with an East Coast camp, a Midwest camp, a Northwest camp. This was before anyone here really thought of the BCU or even Greenland paddling. We had people saying in effect and borrowing from the Bogart movie "Treasure of Sierra Madre"..."we don't need no stinking badges!" The issues remain. Who licenses or certifies? What are the criteria against which the licensed paddler is judged? How proficient must the paddler be in various types of conditions? Etc. a big Etc. It becomes a mess. We get all sorts of arguments here on Paddlewise about simple things like how should a paddle float rescue be conducted with varying schools of thought and experience as to whether to place under bungee or not or even if it is really effective beyond mild conditions (I am not trying to re-start those discussions again; just trying to show how good people differ in looking at the paddlefloat procedure). Often individual instructors (Derek, Randy, George...real names obviously) and institutions (ACA, BCU, etc.) differ in what they see as the way to teach and evaluate and the very techniques involved in rescues and the like. Here is an example: I know how to re-enter a boat in various ways using a paddle float or the cowbow rescue. Last year I was participating in a class in which the instructor insisted that the method being taught and judged was one in which the victim lies on his back between the rescuer's and his own boat and gets a leg on each and works into the cockpit. I simply could not do this for whatever reason, maybe having to do with poor sinuses and resulting inbalance. But the instructor insisted that was the way to do the rescue; there were other people around and he was seeking to limit the approach and not allow variances. After many tries, I simply swam to the side of my boat and re-entered a la the paddlefloat type side entry but without the paddle float. If we had had a strict syllabus, I would have flunked although I do know how to get back in which was the critical factor and not how I did it. I heard of an instance a few years ago at some level of BCU certification in a similar vein. The evaluator went up to a paddler and asked to see his paddle. When the fellow handed it over, the evaluator pushed him over into a capsize. The guy did a hand roll up. The evaluator capsized him again; another hand roll bought the guy up. At this point the guy asked what was going on. The evaluator said he wanted the guy to reach for his rear deck spare paddle while upside down and use that to roll up. The guy said okay and flipped himself over and used his spare to roll up. Doesn't demonstration of one kind of proficiency obviate the need to demonstrate another? Sometimes we can become too much like a bird making a nest that when someone pulls one of the twigs the bird needs to start all over again. These are kinds of things that can come up in licensing, proper techniques and evaluation. For example, Derek insisting that you feather your paddle (or so he did at one time) or no go. Or the lack of understanding of the Greenland paddle which only now the certifying agencies (ACA and BCU) are getting around to "understand"; I put that in parens because of the brewing issue of whether these agencies can really teach or certify it and that possibly only Greenlanders can and should. What about different types of boats? Sit-on-tops (SOTs) don't require emptying techniques and re-enter differently. Folding kayaks also can differ in re-entry and emptying. If the Sit-Inside Kayaks (aka SINKs) are the criteria, what of these other types of boats? What about doubles as opposed to singles? As I said, a mess. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Sailboat Restorations, Inc." wrote: > > > serious licensing would put canoe (probably kayak too) > > rental operations and the like out of business? > I'm not so sure. Auto licensing hasn't put auto rental places out of > business. That's because almost everyone is licensed, even if they don't own a car or are away from home. > ...I think levels of licensing would be appropriate. For > example, Canoe/Flatwater Level: could be obtained by simply passing a short > test regarding the use of safety gear and demonstrating an ability to > control the boat. (This test could be administered by a rental company, > which would have certain responsibilities under the law by virtue of being > licensed to administer the test and grant such license.) I can't imagine any outfitter agreeing to that. If you certify me as competent, take my $$ and rent me a boat, and I drown, who's responsible for my death? For the benefit of our international correspondents, I'll answer the question: you are, unless your lawyer is better than mine. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
When I dive the FL reefs and see a "school" of divers pass with spear guns loaded and cocked I have to smile when I remember that they are probably certified divers. If they weren't they couldn't fill their tanks at a dive shop. Or watch the MANIC licensed drivers on I95 in South Florida. Or the drunk small power-boat drivers out on a Saturday night. It is hard to legislate responsibility and courtesy. By the way the only factor that requires licensed captains at the helm of large yachts are the insurance companies. Patri *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Cramer wrote (in response to my suggestion that rental outfitters might be qualified to test and issue licenses for the types of boats they rent): >If you certify me as > competent, take my $$ and rent me a boat, and I drown, who's responsible > for my death? For the benefit of our international correspondents, I'll > answer the question: you are, unless your lawyer is better than mine. Not necessarily. In fact, I'd say not as a general rule. And certainly not if the legislation that created the licensing framework said not. This is not a new kind of concept to the law, and protection from liability is built into all kinds of legislative initiatives. I would not suggest that every corner store that rents a couple of canoes or kayaks be empowered to test and issue licenses. There should be a governmental agency responsible for doing so (same people perhaps who issue fishing or hunting licenses, or perhaps the DMV). But I do think that larger or more sophisticated rental outfitters might be qualified to do so, as well, if for no other reason than to ensure that in areas where there is a significant demand for rental boats potential renters are not deprived of the right to operate them simply because there is no convenient (open) govt agency available to issue the license. The statutory framework should perhaps provide that no private licensing entity can be held liable to a party to whom they issue a license. A licensing entity that improperly issues licenses (ie, selss them for a fee without testing, or routinely doesn't bother to administer the test) could be prosecuted by the government. This kind of "immunity" is not at all uncommon in the law. Not at all. Even without licensing there are substantial immunities from liability in the sports world -- for example, most ski states have immunities (of varying degrees) for ski resort operators. And there have long been (in effect) immunities for operators of sports arenas and the like. The simplistic suggestion that a private licensing authority will be held liable if a person they license (after administering a legislatively adopted test) is injured or killed in the sport is . . . well, simplistic, and almost certainly wrong. (No slight meant to Steve -- it was and is certainly a point worth raising, IMO. But the answer just isn't so simple, that's all.) Ralph Diaz raised some very interesting questions, mostly regarding the difficulty of applying standards to a sport necessarily (and thankfully) rich with diversities. I guess my general response to that is that I think the licensing program could be general enough to account for the various differences of style and technique. For example, perhaps there could be a general requirement that in order to be granted a license to operate a sea kayak the operator must demonstrate an ability to exit the boat and re-enter. The statute could easily say: "The licensing authority may not mandate any particular method of re-entry, but must require that the operator demonstrate the ability to regain entry of and control of the boat by some method." I admit, it's a little fuzzy. But perhaps it should be. We're not talking about licensing nuclear physicists here. Just boat operators, and just (mainly) for their own protection. It needn't be so complicated. So, just a few more thoughts. . . Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Sailboat Restorations, Inc." wrote: > > Steve Cramer wrote (in response to my suggestion that rental outfitters > might be qualified to test and issue licenses for the types of boats they > rent): > > >If you certify me as > > competent, take my $$ and rent me a boat, and I drown, who's responsible > > for my death? For the benefit of our international correspondents, I'll > > answer the question: you are, unless your lawyer is better than mine. > > Not necessarily. In fact, I'd say not as a general rule. And certainly not > if the legislation that created the licensing framework said not. This is > not a new kind of concept to the law, and protection from liability is built > into all kinds of legislative initiatives. > > I would not suggest that every corner store that rents a couple of canoes or > kayaks be empowered to test and issue licenses. There should be a > governmental agency responsible for doing so (same people perhaps who issue > fishing or hunting licenses, or perhaps the DMV). But I do think that > larger or more sophisticated rental outfitters might be qualified to do so, With the additional complications (ain't the law wonderful), I begin to understand you better, and some of my quibbles go away. Of course, you have posited a new governmental agency (in GA, hunting and fishing licenses are physically issued by K-Mart, and there's no exam), which will add to the size of bloated guvmint, yadayadayada. Perhaps I missed this earlier in the thread, but would this licensing apply to us, or just renters? I can imagine the BC authorities reading one of Doug's reports and recoiling in horror: "Give him a license?! Hell, no, the fool is suicidal!" Of course all these requirements would apply to bicyclists, skateboarders, 'bladers, perambulator pushers, etc, too, no? Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
was does licensing accomplish? most states require a license for both a vehicle and it's driver. there are more than 40,000 people killed every year and perhaps ten times that number injured. you can imagine the millions or billions of dollars tied up in insurance cost, lawyer fees, court costs, medical costs, liability payouts. and the numbers are lower to due to seat belts, design crush, new glass, abs, etc. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
denny bean wrote: > was does licensing accomplish? most states require a license for both a > vehicle and it's driver. there are more than 40,000 people killed every > year and perhaps ten times that number injured. you can imagine the > millions or billions of dollars tied up in insurance cost, lawyer fees, > court costs, medical costs, liability payouts. and the numbers are lower > to due to seat belts, design crush, new glass, abs, etc. Suggestion! Forget the lawyers, deal directly with the insurance company involved, cut the cost by around 40%. Lee *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mel Lammers wrote: >Ohio has license fees for ANY boat and there are numerous kayak and canoe >livery companies. Of course we are one of the early states (1803) and maybe >are too much under the influence of the easterners. We used to be mid-west >and I think still are as we are on the West side of the Applachian mtn >range. East side of the Rockies, hence mid-West. :-) What I meant to say was that when you really have to be able to paddle a (solo!) canoe, to get a license to actually be permitted to canoe at all, that would put canoe (probably kayak too) rental operations and the like out of business? Because I do not think a lot of people will want/be able to do that, because canoeing takes a long and hard time to learn, to do it well enough for _serieus_ licensing? If licensing does not involve (learning) canoeing/paddling skills, it would have little or nothing to do with canoeing, but only with being on the water? Perhaps/hopefully a bit safer? Dirk Barends *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There is no certification for spear fishing! PADI 87447 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Denton <BDenton_at_aquagulf.com> To: 'patmossz' <patmossz_at_email.msn.com>; 'Steve Cramer' <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>; <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Licensing > There is no certification for spear fishing! > > PADI 87447 > Bob, I didn't say there was. however once a person is certified to dive, he may do as his/her conscience dictates. Same with drivers. Licensing will not make more considerate paddlers. Now maybe if you are talking about PWC that's another matter. Since they are not considered boats they fall into another ( poorly defined) arena. The PWC manufactures have a very powerful lobby. Many cities and wildlife areas in the country have tried in various ways to prohibit them and have lost badly in court. Attempts to restrict their use has been a tiny bit more effective. So don't be naive to think that by encouraging licensing you will clean up our waterways. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I go kayaking to get away from the bureaucracy. I used to go to the woods for the same reason, freedom. Now I have to pay a fee to park anywhere near a trailhead. To do so I have to find an open ranger station to pay the fee so I can park in the woods. I have friends that have been to 4 closed ranger stations and several sporting good stores that were temporarily out of the permits before they just gave up and risked the rather steep fine. Lets not add any more bureaucracy to kayaking. Why should I need to be licensed to paddle a kayak? Just who can I hurt with it. An automobile or a large (or fast) boat can do some real damage to the life, limb and property of others and I have no objection to there being government rules and required training as to how that equipment should be operated for the safety of others. I have no objection to some surf beaches where swimmers are common being off limits to kayaks to protect the swimmers from fast moving kayaks. I have no objection to the ACA, BCU or any other person or group starting an organization to certify guides, kayakers, or even those who just walk on two legs for that matter. I object when those organizations are given power by government to dictate who can or can't teach, paddle, or walk. If a school wants to advertise that they have been certified by some certifying organization, fine. If another does not want to be certified or wants to set up there own certification organization they should be free to do so and compete in the marketplace with the other groups and organizations that also certify. As soon as a group looks to the government to enforce their attempt at monopoly, to become the "governing body" I get real pissed. Why do you want to steal my freedom? Who am I hurting by kayaking? Note: Nothing gets me more riled than some outfit that wants to control me for my own good! Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Why do you want to steal my freedom? Who am I hurting by kayaking? Note: > Nothing gets me more riled than some outfit that wants to control me for my > own good! > > Matt Broze > http://www.marinerkayaks.com As far as the views indicated in your post I'm in complete agreement, You're preaching to the choir. I might add that it would be a great idea for those starting out to peruse your web signt for safety issues and guidance. Lee *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Auto licensing hasn't put auto rental places out of business. When I had about three driving lessons, I thought I was able enough to drive a car. But it took me about 40 lessons and three examens to get my license! If it was up to me I would probably have stopped taking driving lessons after those first three ones! But since driving a car is 'necessary' thing, I was forced to go on to get a driving license. I wonder if someone had to do that same effort, for something that is more difficult than driving a car (as I consider canoeing is, to my standards of course) and not as 'necessary', would still enough people really do that to make rental operations worthwhile? I doubt this very much! I think it would leave only the more motivated on the water, who will mostly buy boats, not rent them? That can perhaps be good for the water situations, but not for the paddling industry, and that in turn could be bad for us 'motivated' paddlers? Like a lot of other people on this list, as I have noticed, I too resent the idea of certification/licensing paddling (although I certainly do like to learn (a lot) about canoeing). I do not trust organizations much when it comes to give them that kind of power. I remember for instance that I had to learn to kayak to become a certified Canoe Instructor! But kayakers had not (at all) to be able to paddle a canoe to become a canoe instructor! So much for 'official' canoeing organizations... So I am very cautious when people 'state' a need for certification/licensing etc. because some accidents happens. Organizations/governments could take this too seriously, and use it in a futile and even wrong way? Dirk Barends *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi All, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin I have deleted several rants before sending them. Fortunately Matt, Dave, and Richard have expressed much of how I feel regarding licensing kayaks, or kayak operators. The last thing I need is more protection from me. If I die in my boat that's my business not anyone else's. Whether that boat is rented or owned is of no importance to me. Most kayak rental operations have clients read a waiver that outlines how dangerous the sport can be. If people choose to ignore those warnings that is their business, not mine. People need to accept responsibility for their actions. Kayaks are inanimate objects they don't kill/maim/or injure anyone. People sometimes make poor decisions that lead to unfortunate incidents but you can't legislate good decision making. There was recent talk of the sheriff's dept closing a local river because of a hazardous log jam. Someone asked me how I felt about this and I said I totally opposed the idea. Their argument was that someone may die on the river if it wasn't closed. I agree that someone may die on the river but that is a small price to pay to avoid the freedom lost by having others decide where I can and can't boat. If every river that had a fatality on it was closed I'd have no place to paddle whitewater at all. We all need to decide how much risk is acceptable to us in all of our daily pursuits. It is up to each individual to become informed about the risks involved in a particular activity. It is not the job of retailers, manufacturers (though they can be a good source of info) or the government. It scares the crap out of me that so many people want others to tell them what they can and can't do. Where does it end. Thanks for the opportunity for another self indulgent rant. -- Rob Cookson "I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the Atmosphere." Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Abigail Adams, February 22, 1787. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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