Sid Stone is right - the paddle float self-rescue takes more time than a well-executed "T rescue" or whatever it's called in your locale. I very much prefer the re-entry and roll. However - there are still people who paddle alone, and there are people whose paddling partners aren't up to a competent assisted rescue. Maybe that shouldn't be true, but it is true. Some of those solo paddlers can't roll, or can't roll well enough to do the re-entry and roll. They often *can* get back into their boat and button up the spray skirt and thus stay warmer than they'd be in the water. It would be great if such folks had spray skirts with zippered closures or other arrangements (like a sealed gasket just in front of the body tube) which could be opened easily and admit a hand pump. But then maybe they all should have foot pumps, or electric pumps.......Yeegads - the options are endless. Point is - Sid is right, but the "outrigger" rescue does have a place. Bill Hansen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I too agree with Bill and Sid. The guys that I usually paddle with can all do an Assisted T Rescue much faster than a paddle float rescue. Although all of us can do a paddle float rescue in choppy water, we almost always use the assisted T because of it's speed. The paddle float is for when we are alone and can't do a re-enter and roll. As far as the dry boat is concerned, if you are fairly strong, it's easy to do a paddle float rescue and have a dry boat. All you have to do is grab the bow and shove it up as high as you can while at the same time giving a very strong scissor kick. Once you get your arm extended completely, let the boat pivot on the way down so that it lands right side up. Then if you need to pump anything that's left (rare), just stick your pump between the skirt and the hull on the side of the skirt. If you keep the paddle float on, it's much easier. Steve Holtzman > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Bill Hansen > Sent: November 20, 2001 1:56 PM > To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] paddle float self rescue > > > Sid Stone is right - the paddle float self-rescue takes more time than a > well-executed "T rescue" or whatever it's called in your locale. I very > much prefer the re-entry and roll. However - there are still people who > paddle alone, and there are people whose paddling partners aren't up to a > competent assisted rescue. Maybe that shouldn't be true, but it is true. > Some of those solo paddlers can't roll, or can't roll well enough > to do the > re-entry and roll. They often *can* get back into their boat and > button up > the spray skirt and thus stay warmer than they'd be in the water. > > It would be great if such folks had spray skirts with zippered > closures or > other arrangements (like a sealed gasket just in front of the body tube) > which could be opened easily and admit a hand pump. But then > maybe they all > should have foot pumps, or electric pumps.......Yeegads - the options are > endless. > > Point is - Sid is right, but the "outrigger" rescue does have a place. > > Bill Hansen > > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Yet another option on the paddlefloat scenerio. After capsizing and wet exit, > inflate your paddlefloat a little, work your way to the bow, use the paddle > float to help support you and lift the bow, dumping the water (providing your > boat has bulkheads that allow the water to dump easily). I can flip my boat > hold it up for a few seconds and it's dry. Then proceed as normal attaching > the float to your paddle and inflate the rest of the way, then climb on into > a dry boat. > Regarding straps; I learned to use the strap as extra security around the > shaft in a practice session in the surf when my float was knocked off by a > wave and and blown about 25 ' in a matter of seconds. I was able to recover > it, but had I flipped again I would have been up the creek without a > paddlefloat! Regards, Chris > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 04:56 PM 11/20/01 -0500, Bill Hansen wrote: >Sid Stone is right - the paddle float self-rescue takes more time than a >well-executed "T rescue" or whatever it's called in your locale. I very >much prefer the re-entry and roll. However - there are still people who >paddle alone, and there are people whose paddling partners aren't up to a >competent assisted rescue. There have been several responses in this thread and I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned another scenario. Even if you're paddling with someone that has fairly competent assisted rescue skills the situation that caused you to capsize (i.e. a rogue wave) might very likely capsize your paddling partner at the same time. A self rescue with a paddle float followed by an assisted rescue might be quicker than both swimmers trying to reenter at the same time. How many of you practice "all in" rescues? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Anyone want to visit Sarasota and give a demo of rescue techniques to our newly formed kayak club? All are purely recreational paddlers. I doubt that many have ever seen a roll or a paddlefloat. We are all immortal. This is a serious invitation. I have been trying to think of topics for our club meetings. Our December meeting is to a Wee Lassie canoe builder in Sarasota. See: http://www.feathercanoes.com Marinell *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > > A self rescue with a paddle float > followed by an assisted rescue might be quicker than both swimmers trying > to reenter at the same time. > How many of you practice "all in" rescues? Here's a quicker one. A and B both in. A lifts the bow of his boat while B sinks the stern (Don't let go of B's boat). Score so far: one dry boat, one full boat, two swimmers. B grabs the coaming of A's boat and A re-enters. Score so far: one re-entered paddler into a dry boat, one full boat, one swimmer. A does a T-rescue for B. Score: all in and dry. This can be done in about 3 minutes with a novice B. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:33 AM 11/21/01 -0500, Steve Cramer wrote: >John Fereira wrote: > > > > A self rescue with a paddle float > > followed by an assisted rescue might be quicker than both swimmers trying > > to reenter at the same time. > > How many of you practice "all in" rescues? > >Here's a quicker one. A and B both in. A lifts the bow of his boat while >B sinks the stern (Don't let go of B's boat). Score so far: one dry >boat, one full boat, two swimmers. B grabs the coaming of A's boat and A >re-enters. Score so far: one re-entered paddler into a dry boat, one >full boat, one swimmer. A does a T-rescue for B. Score: all in and dry. > >This can be done in about 3 minutes with a novice B. That is something that is certainly worth practicing. I would imagine that the most difficult step will be when "A" re-enters the boat. Even though "B" is holding the cockpit of "A's" boat, "B" won't be able to stabilize "A's" boat (especially since B will only be holding the combing with one hand while the other hand is trying to hold onto their own boat). What makes an assisted rescue so easy is that the rescuer can keep the victims boat quite stable for the reentry. I assisted someone that had never been in a kayak before and had capsized 50' from the put-in this summer. Obviously he had never tried any rescue techniques before so I attempted to talk him through it. I got his boat emptied fairly quickly and had him onto his boat, facing the stern on his belly. When I told him to turn over he actually stood up in the cockpit rather than just twisting. Because I was able to keep his boat stable he was still able to get in successfully (albeit temporarily; he paddled 10' before he capsized again). In Steve's scenario the "B" paddler can be a novice but the "A" paddler better have pretty good balance. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > > At 04:56 PM 11/20/01 -0500, Bill Hansen wrote: > >Sid Stone is right - the paddle float self-rescue takes more time than a > >well-executed "T rescue" or whatever it's called in your locale. I very > >much prefer the re-entry and roll. However - there are still people who > >paddle alone, and there are people whose paddling partners aren't up to a > >competent assisted rescue. I think that an assisted would generally be faster, we had done some timed ones down to 30 seconds to dry boat and deck secured which sounded good until I heard of a 20 second being accomplished. definitely faster than a padDlefloat that requires inflation. However, this all presumes that the boats are in reasonably close proximity and the rescuer is aware of the capsize. Oh, and both practiced. If however, the conditions are not quite suitable for a T, and you happen to carry a foam paddlefloat, paddling a nice stable boat like a Romany that doesn't have rear deck lines suitable to secure a paddle that forced you to practice with a paddle shaft coaming grip (how is this for a run on sentence) it can be quite fast. conditions will dictate. > > There have been several responses in this thread and I'm surprised that > nobody has mentioned another scenario. Even if you're paddling with > someone that has fairly competent assisted rescue skills the situation that > caused you to capsize (i.e. a rogue wave) might very likely capsize your > paddling partner at the same time. A self rescue with a paddle float > followed by an assisted rescue might be quicker than both swimmers trying > to reenter at the same time. > How many of you practice "all in" rescues? Also a proximity issue. Seems the most time involved in rough conditions is swimming the equipment to position. it is pretty fast after (especially if you don't choose to empty the boat, the 'minus T all in') since it is very easy to stable the first boat. Be interesting to time trial this. -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John brings up a good point concerning both people capsizing. I would first opt for an "all in" rescue. This is providing the people are close enough. If not, at least one person needs to do a solo rescue - paddlefloat, re-entry and roll. They can then get to their partner and assist them. sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John brings up a good point concerning both people capsizing. I would first opt for an "all in" rescue. This is providing the people are close enough. If not, at least one person needs to do a solo rescue - paddlefloat, re-entry and roll. They can then get to their partner and assist them. sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John brings up a good point concerning both people capsizing. I would first opt for an "all in" rescue. This is providing the people are close enough. If not, at least one person needs to do a solo rescue - paddlefloat, re-entry and roll. They can then get to their partner and assist them. sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > > > > How many of you practice "all in" rescues? > > > >Here's a quicker one. A and B both in. A lifts the bow of his boat while > >B sinks the stern (Don't let go of B's boat). Score so far: one dry > >boat, one full boat, two swimmers. B grabs the coaming of A's boat and A > >re-enters. Score so far: one re-entered paddler into a dry boat, one > >full boat, one swimmer. A does a T-rescue for B. Score: all in and dry. > > > >This can be done in about 3 minutes with a novice B. > > That is something that is certainly worth practicing. I would imagine that > the most difficult step will be when "A" re-enters the boat. Even though > "B" is holding the cockpit of "A's" boat, "B" won't be able to stabilize > "A's" boat (especially since B will only be holding the combing with one > hand while the other hand is trying to hold onto their own boat). There are some options: B's leg(s) in the cockpit, foot through a deck line, clip B's painter somewhere. The size of the waves does complicate things. Last time I had B hold on with both hands, and the boat was quite stable. Just don't lean toward B. > What makes an assisted rescue so easy is that the rescuer can keep the victims > boat quite stable for the reentry.... In Steve's scenario the "B" paddler can be a novice but the "A" > paddler better have pretty good balance. Or know enough to keep flat on the deck. I'm not that athletic, and this was an easy rescue. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira asked: > How many of you practice "all in" rescues? Our local paddling club, the Chesapeake Paddlers Association, taught two basic rescue/safety classes this past summer, and another class the previous summer. Our weekly 'pirate' gatherings usually involve a little practice as well. The goal hasn't been to teach 'a' rescue, but to teach as many as time permits, allowing the students to see the strong and weak points of each. In the class 2 years ago I taught, we had a woman break a deck fitting that was holding the deck line she was using to secure her paddle. This was the only rescue she knew at the time, and she was fortnuate enough to have this happen in class rather than when she really needed it. 'All in' rescues are taught by CPA. As well as 'Hand of God', 'scoop', 'T', 'X', 'Cleopatra's Needle', 'paddlefloat', 'eskimo bow and paddle rescues', 'stirrup' and different methods of towing. The idea is to teach as many rescues as the student can grasp, and encourage them to practice often. As others have pointed out, knowing only 1 method is limiting your chances. Re-enter and roll can be taught if the student already has a roll. CPA is also discussing the possability of an advanced rescue class, whereas a student that has been through the basic class on flat water and given time to master them, is taken out in more advanced conditions to allow them to practice in rougher water under the watchful eyes of experienced paddlers. This year about 30 people took the CPA rescue/safety classes (pods of six students each), and we used the opportunity to have our future/current trip leaders teach the classes. This course, patterened after the BCU canoe safety class, with wet exit & paddlefloat rescues added, was very popular and we had to turn folks away to keep the instructor/student ratio within reason. I would encourage individuals, clubs, and paddling pals to learn as many rescues as possible, and practice all of them in varying conditions. Just 'knowing how' is not enough. Besides - it's fun! Woody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rescue contests: Sounds like a real good idea to me, maybe the ACA can organize them as part of sea kayak racing or something. Competition here might really do a lot of good to improving the breed. Reading this paddle float self-rescue thread has been quite frustrating to me because I wanted to comment on almost every post in it (but didn't want to spend the time so I hoped someone else would take the bait and say what I wanted to say. Many did, but I'd like to offer a few more scenarios and comments. Practice all the rescues and all the variations you have heard about or can think up yourself. In any given situation one of the rescues will be superior to the others for any number of reasons, one of which is speed of execution. In reading this discussion I was sensing a "blind men and the elephant" situation. It seemed to me everyone knew or had read of some part of the whole and was arguing from a limited perspective, but nobody had a good understanding of the whole. It also reminded me of Euell Gibbons (of old Grape nuts commercial fame) and the Skunk Cabbage. In the commercial Euell says that Grape-nuts reminded him of wild hickory nuts. Euell was one of many who wrote books on wild edible plants. But in one fundamental way, Euell was different than most of the other authors on the subject. Euell did his research by eating the plants and trying to make them palatable. Most others did there research in the library. This brings us to the Skunk Cabbage. Skunk Cabbage is listed in numerous edible plant books as an edible plant used by the Indians. Euell tried everything he could think of in the way of preparation to make any part of Skunk Cabbage edible (the calcium oxalate crystals in it quickly grow like needles right through the skin and would likely swell your throat completely closed until you suffocated if you swallowed much of it). Although he knew a lot of the Indians techniques like drying, boiling, pounding, etc., Euell never succeeded in removing the calcium oxalate from the Skunk Cabbage and making it edible. Maybe the Indians could do it (or maybe they used it judiciously to teach there children they couldn't just eat anything they picked up). My point is that often even the respected authors of books just pass along the same misinformation they got from other "trusted" sources, who also never bothering to check it out for themselves or even question it. How many years was it until somebody with Galileo's gall came along to test Aristotle's principle that heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. By all means kayak rescue competitions! We should start by pitting the rescues against each of the variations of the same or similar rescues. The winners then compete against same size teams each using their different rescue specialties. The winners then compete against different size teams. There should be both calm water and rough water categories and unladen and heavily laden categories too. Let me suggest a couple of events I thought of while reading Paddlewise. The kayak with 150 pounds of gear "T-rescue" vs. "solo freestyle paddle float rescue" event. The rough water and high wind reentry and roll vs. the "fixed outrigger paddle float rescue" (not finished until at least the kayaks have less than 1" of water left sloshing around in them and their spraydeck is in place and they are beginning to paddle away. Without going back and seeing whose toes I'm going to be stepping on here: I question if anyone can pick up the front (and break the suction at the cockpit) of even and empty (swamped) sea kayak using merely a scissors kick to do so. (Paddlewise's Robert Livingston and his Ursa 350 possibly excepted). Now, this belief of mine may just be because I have used bad technique when trying to do it. If so, please instruct me in how it is done. I'll admit I haven't yet been able to figure out (on my own) just how to get the sail on a sailboard up into the wind to start learning a water start, but I know it can be done because I've seen it done before. Maybe I'm just too dense.......even with a PFD on. Maybe I could do it using a paddlefloat to push down on (like I've read about but haven't yet tried). I doubt if a big paddle float (or even the bow of a kayak) would help when there was a heavy gear load in the bow though. To the person who doubted anyone could do a paddlefloat rescue in 1' chop and wanted someone to try it, I wanted to ask: "Why don't you just try it yourself!" Done right and with a little judicious timing of when you make the crux moves (like climbing onto the deck or removing the paddle from the deck lines) I can attest from personal experience that it can be done in far rougher conditions than that. Of course in his books, Derek Hutchinson says it is only a rescue for calm water....so who you gonna believe? The crux move for the "all in rescue" comes right at the start. When paddling in really rough conditions (those conditions likely to capsize two or more paddlers at once) prudent paddlers are usually careful to stay far enough apart not to endanger each other if a breaking wave were to sweep one of them along uncontrollably. How does one swim to each other in such rough conditions, if you can even figure out which way to swim from your even lower than normal perspective--especially while trying to tow a swamped kayak--that might also run over or impale you--to get the rescue started). I include the "All-In-Rescue" in that class of rescues I call "Pool Rescues". Does anyone know when Ray Killian started kayaking? In the directions for our Rescue Float Plus (copyrighted 1986) I wrote: "The hook on the end of the line should now be clipped to the kayak, spraydeck, or life jacket so it can't be lost should you let go of it. If the hook is already clipped near the back of the cockpit in (sic) may not have to be moved at all." (First time I've noticed that typo). We have had a tether on the Rescue Float Plus since we started making them sometime around 1983 or 1984. Another thing that bothers me about this discussion, it appears that everybody is talking about their own idea about what a "paddle float rescue" is without explaining which version they are speaking of. There are so many variations of "Paddle Float Rescue" out there (and, in my opinion, some of them are really atrocious). There is even an English video that shows the paddler standing up in the cockpit and turning around before sitting down. Maybe this is the "paddle float rescue" version Derek knows and is claiming to be only a calm water rescue. I'd say that version wasn't even good for calm water (but the demonstrators could get away with it because they did fasten the paddle to the kayak and the calm water left them a lot of room for error while still succeeding). I look at that more as a testament to the soundness of the basic fix outrigger concept. However if you expect to be able to do a paddle float rescue in rough water your technique will have to become a lot more refined than the one shown in the video. I developed the basic paddle float technique back in 1981 and refined it and developed several other uses for the float over the next several months (and also helped in the development of better floats over the next several years). We presented it to the kayaking community in a well refined form that had been tested in many conditions. I'm appalled at how I often see "paddle float rescues" taught since then. The directions to how we think a float should best be used in various conditions can be found in the "Manuals" section of our website under "Rescue Float". 530 cubic inches of floatation should be more than enough for a paddle float. I experimented and found 1/4 cubic foot (432 cubic inches) was plenty for a foam paddle float (back when I was testing ethafoam floats and using them to teach Eskimo rolls back in the early 1980's). I liked the idea someone presented of putting the paddle into the slot in foam float while the float was still attached to the back deck under some straps. Maybe one could use the paddle like a ram to push the float out the other side (rather than draw out the float on the paddle and then rotate the paddle through 180 degrees). That way they could then tighten the straps down further to hold the paddle firmly in place on the back deck. One disadvantage I can imagine would be needing to go around the stern of the kayak to get into the starting position to climb up on the deck. Heavens, that stern might even have a sharp blade and hard points protruding from it that could subject those attempting to round that cape with the risk of serious facial lacerations. Just more idle speculation on my part again though, do we have some volunteers from Texas or Florida to test it out? I'd do it myself but the waters kinda cold around here and I might, GASP, die from cold shock. I don't think I should risk it. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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Have B reach over his/her capsized boat which has been placed between A's boat and B. If B's boat is to wide at the cockpit area to reach over, move toward the bow or stern of the capsized boat until B can reach to grab the coming on A's boat. This will result in much more stability while A climbs in and solves the problem of what to do with B's boat. Arden E. Dockter adockter_at_earthlink.net -----Original Message----- That is something that is certainly worth practicing. I would imagine that the most difficult step will be when "A" re-enters the boat. Even though "B" is holding the cockpit of "A's" boat, "B" won't be able to stabilize "A's" boat (especially since B will only be holding the combing with one hand while the other hand is trying to hold onto their own boat). What makes an assisted rescue so easy is that the rescuer can keep the victims boat quite stable for the reentry. ...Snip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I can do it, but I also have 38" arms. My head usually goes under water, or at least up to my nose in the drink, so I keep my noseplugs on or exhale. Position yourself at the bow with one hand on the point of the bow, and the other on a comfortable spot on the keel where you can get a good enough grip to rotate the boat. I lift straight up on the boat (which forces my torso/head/PFD underwater. With the buoyancy now pushing me toward the surface, I break the suction at the cockpit. Augment the buoyancy with a good scissor kick, I lift the boat free of the water as I "broach", and flip the boat fully upright before it and I come back into the water. I hang onto the bow so I don't submerge a second time. I can empty the boat with the scissor kick/head "dunk" and get back in with a cowboy scramble in 1' chop. Haven't tried any bigger conditions yet. Yes, I can do it. Is it my first line of defense? Of course not...rolling is. And bracing is the line of defense before even the roll is needed. I sort of think of it as a "circus trick", but one I wouldn't be afraid to employ in real life if needed. I always do this boat flip before doing paddlefloat re-entries, unless I'm really really tired. I just hate pumping. I've used it during "all in" rescue practices on benign water, and was the very first person back in my boat, and was able to quickly get to others to do T-rescues. It takes a bit of coordination to break the suction and set the boat upright on the water before filling the cockpit again. No, I can't teach it to beginners, and I don't advocate it as a 'standard' rescue for everyone, but it works for me. Shawn "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> wrote: >I question if anyone can pick up the front (and break the suction at > the cockpit) of even and empty (swamped) sea kayak using merely a >scissors kick to do so. ..Now, this belief of mine may just be because >I have used bad technique when trying to do it. If so, please instruct >me in how it is done. Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What kayak do you paddle ? I have done it to, but I don't think it is possible with any kind of sea kayak. Fernando Lopez Arbarello Kayak Argentina - Sea Kayaking Mailing List kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com <mailto:kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Shawn Baker Sent: Martes, 27 de Noviembre de 2001 09:01 a.m. To: Matt Broze; paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] paddle float self rescue I can do it, but I also have 38" arms. My head usually goes under water, or at least up to my nose in the drink, so I keep my noseplugs on or exhale. Position yourself at the bow with one hand on the point of the bow, and the other on a comfortable spot on the keel where you can get a good enough grip to rotate the boat. I lift straight up on the boat (which forces my torso/head/PFD underwater. With the buoyancy now pushing me toward the surface, I break the suction at the cockpit. Augment the buoyancy with a good scissor kick, I lift the boat free of the water as I "broach", and flip the boat fully upright before it and I come back into the water. I hang onto the bow so I don't submerge a second time. I can empty the boat with the scissor kick/head "dunk" and get back in with a cowboy scramble in 1' chop. Haven't tried any bigger conditions yet. Yes, I can do it. Is it my first line of defense? Of course not...rolling is. And bracing is the line of defense before even the roll is needed. I sort of think of it as a "circus trick", but one I wouldn't be afraid to employ in real life if needed. I always do this boat flip before doing paddlefloat re-entries, unless I'm really really tired. I just hate pumping. I've used it during "all in" rescue practices on benign water, and was the very first person back in my boat, and was able to quickly get to others to do T-rescues. It takes a bit of coordination to break the suction and set the boat upright on the water before filling the cockpit again. No, I can't teach it to beginners, and I don't advocate it as a 'standard' rescue for everyone, but it works for me. Shawn "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> wrote: >I question if anyone can pick up the front (and break the suction at > the cockpit) of even and empty (swamped) sea kayak using merely a >scissors kick to do so. ..Now, this belief of mine may just be because >I have used bad technique when trying to do it. If so, please instruct >me in how it is done. Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Fernando Lopez Arbarello" <kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> wrote: >What kayak do you paddle ? I have done it to, but I don't think it is >possible with any kind of sea kayak. I paddle a Guillemot 18, but I've also done it with a CD Squall, a Perception Chinook NW, and a Mariner Max. (all the boats I've ever tried it in.) It wasn't easy with the Chinook (heavy!!), or the Mariner (no bulkheads, only float bags--sorry Matt!) Like I said, I hate pumping!! Shawn Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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