Let's review this once again. Exactly what techno-junk is Scott recommending folks leave behind? Pumps, towlines, spare paddles, charts, compass, PFD, wet/drysuits, smoke/flares, weather radio, horn/whistle, airbags, ? List it out; which stuff is unnecessary excess? Thanks, Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You and I said: >Pumps, towlines, spare paddles, charts, compass, PFD, wet/drysuits, >smoke/flares, weather radio, horn/whistle, airbags, ? >List it out; which stuff is unnecessary excess? It depends on the circumstance. One size does not fit all. If I'm out paddling on an inland lake on a calm summer evening, I might leave most of it behind. In other circumstances, say, a moderatly remote tour, I might want all of it and more besides. -- Wes OK, I failed to be specific. Try this. What to leave out TODAY, a nice sunny day, temperature on the water about 45 degrees F, and we are just out for a day trip around the islands off Stoneington, Maine. Conditions not unlike those off Homer, Alaska a few days ago. We might do 10-20 miles today, depending on weather and "how we feel" out there. What techno-junk do we leave out! Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:52 PM 1/29/02, skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net wrote: >You and I said: > >>Pumps, towlines, spare paddles, charts, compass, PFD, wet/drysuits, >>smoke/flares, weather radio, horn/whistle, airbags, ? > >>List it out; which stuff is unnecessary excess? > >It depends on the circumstance. One size does not fit all. If I'm out >paddling on an inland lake on a calm summer evening, I might leave most of >it behind. In other circumstances, say, a moderatly remote tour, I might >want all of it and more besides. > >OK, I failed to be specific. Try this. What to leave out TODAY, a >nice sunny day, temperature on the water about 45 degrees F, and we >are just out for a day trip around the islands off Stoneington, >Maine. Conditions not unlike those off Homer, Alaska a few days ago. > >We might do 10-20 miles today, depending on weather and "how we feel" >out there. > >What techno-junk do we leave out! In this case, not much. If I'm paddling my own boat, no airbags since I'm comfortable with the bulkheads. If I'm you and know the area I might skip the charts, but since I don't know the area, I'd take them. Weather radio, maybe not. I can think of a number of things that I'd include, like spare clothes, maybe a bailout bag survival kit, probably VHF. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thick driftwood log? Check. Thin driftwood limb? Check. So that's your boat and your paddle. If you want to get rid of the techno-junk, skip the limb and just use your hands. If you're really serious, skip the log as well, and just swim. Cheers, Richard Culpeper http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Richard Culpeper wrote: - >Thick driftwood log? Check. >Thin driftwood limb? Check. G'Day, Heh Richard how did you guess? Thats my 1st boat 45 years ago - builders plank, two wooden blocks and an iron bar for a paddle - on a duck pond!! Lots of fun though, All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PeterO wrote: > > Heh Richard how did you guess? Thats my 1st boat 45 years ago - builders > plank, two wooden blocks and an iron bar for a paddle - on a duck pond!! I'm curious what the two wooden blocks for? Paddle blades maybe? John Blackburn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Blackburn >I'm curious what the two wooden blocks for? Paddle blades maybe? G'Day, The two blocks were an essential flotation safety item - The plank by itself didn't have enough buoyancy so we balanced it on a block at each end. A more thoughtful paddler would have tied the blocks on, but we had no string. The rod made a suprisingly effective paddle by itself and could also be useful in keeping marauding pirates at bay! Two uses for every item! Voyages typically lasted 15 minutes before boat disintegration and a wet exit :~) All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> PeterO wrote: > Heh Richard how did you guess? Thats my 1st boat 45 years ago - builders > plank, two wooden blocks and an iron bar for a paddle - on a duck pond!! My first was about thirty-five years ago. An emply oil drum with driftwood tied to it. No paddle. On Oak Bay of the Bay of Fundy. Out from shore with the tide, and then back in again a few hours later. Had me hooked for life! I do have a friend who will quite happily swim along side the boat for a day rather than paddle: "The water and air were so warm that Martina decided to not paddle the next day. I paddled. She swam. We had discussed what to do in case we lost the canoe, which would put us in an uncomfortable but non-life threatening position. I suggested that we could wait a few weeks until our rescue coordinator realized that we were overdue, or we could walk out, depending on where we were. Tina said, "Why not just swim out." I thought that she was joking. I was mistaken. Perhaps Martina was onto a new sport: wilderness marathon swimming. Who needs canoes?" "I asked her if she was worried about getting a cramp, sinking, drowning, and leaving me with the provisions all to myself. She replied that she was the Princess of the Bavarian Forest, and that ones such as herself did not cramp. "Besides," she said with her thick Bavarian accent as she stood up in the middle of the lake to be handed a sweet, "the water is only four feet deep."" >From "Kattawagami Untouched" chapter "On the Beach" at http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/beach.html Cheers, Richard Culpeper *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I don't consider myself to be a minimalist. Nor do I consider myself to be a fatalist. That is, I am not going to condemn every paddler to death who does not do things exactly the same way I do. Sea kayaking is a very broad sport which encompasses a rather wide spectrum of variations. I often get the feeling that certain people on this list are rather elitist in their thinking and as such are unwilling to even consider some of the, shall we for lack of a better description call them, lower levels of the sport. I, like so many others on this list, teach classes in sea kayaking. As an instructor I try to be constantly aware of the beginners perception of the sport. It is to this degree that I sometimes feel compelled to contribute something to this list which is intended to, as Mr. Lloyd so eloquently put it, provide some balance. Unfortunately I often do so in a rather brash manner for which I do apologize. I guess I will need to work on that in the future. My point in my previous posts was simply that not everyone new to this sport needs to run out and buy every piece of rescue gear available to be a safe paddler. I feel that a newbie on this list could easily get the impression that they are being irresponsible and flirting with death if they do not carry a GPS, and a VHS radio, and flares and a spare paddle and paddlefloats, etc., whenever they go out paddling. I enjoy a new toy just as much as the next guy, but the equipment one carries in a kayak is dependent on they type of paddling one does. And it is my belief that a new paddler would do a whole lot better investing in instruction and learning the skills then trying to purchase all of the swell toys often emphasized on this list. That's all! Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The backcountry community discusses Ten Essentials Kit items in much the same fashion. Context is an important qualifier: going into an arid climate requires a different kit than when winter camping. Still, a core group of items does emerge on most lists: how to find your location and direction (map & compass), how to see and be seen (a light), how to defend against hypo/hyperthermia (a hat, some carbs, water treatment), etc. A friend suggests the Hang Glider's Maxim: Never fly higher than you are willing to fall. But limited SAR experience suggests a wider reach. When things go wrong in 'wild' or 'public' places, others are often called upon to put themselves at risk in an attempt to find us &/or render aid. Maine and Alaska are cold water paddles at any time of the year. Not dressing for immersion, not carrying adequate signaling devices (flares/smoke/radio), not having proper '411' on tides, currents, pending & possible changes in wind and weather, ...at what point do we begin to hear the words, "accident waiting to happen?" Bicycle and Motorcycle helmets are inconvenient. Laws mandating their use inhibit my personal freedoms. They are hot. Uncomfortable. Ugly. And all of that works right up until the moment you take a nasty fall and stare down a future of being gorked and having to steer with puffs of air into a tube. I'm not a Ranger Rick Safety Compulsive. I just find many of the arguments about prudent use of gear, skills, and planning to be superfluous and moot. -wjj *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott said.... Sea kayaking is a very broad sport which encompasses a rather wide spectrum of variations...... My point in my previous posts was simply that not everyone new to this sport needs to run out and buy every piece of rescue gear available to be a safe paddler....... And it is my belief that a new paddler would do a whole lot better investing in instruction and learning the skills then trying to purchase all of the swell toys often emphasized on this list. That's all! Scott So.Cal. I think Scott said it very well. Both my wife and I kayak--I am a lot more "hardcore" and go almost every weekend---she by her own admission is a "fairweather kayaker". My wife cannot use a compass or read a map----hasn't stopped her from driving a car or paddling a boat. She doesn't carry a VHF or GPS and wouldn't know how to use them if she did. I, on the other hand, am a gadget freak. There is a towline around my waist, a GPS in my pocket, a VHF attached to my PFD, a flare gun, handheld flares, lightsticks, duct tape, and "instant" epoxy in a dry bag in my day hatch, and a compass on my deck--and charts when I'm in non-familiar waters. I enjoy navigating in fog or darkness; my wife doesn't want to paddle in either. If the weather gets bad, she depends on me to get us home--she is willing to accept the level of risk that I can't. If it's too foggy or dark, I would hook up the tow line. Just because my wife doesn't use a radio, GPS, compass, charts, etc--doesn't mean that she can't enjoy paddling and still do it safely. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Steven A. Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: <KiAyker_at_aol.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Techno-Junk Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:17:59 -0800 Scott and Steve, I am in general agreement with Scott's sentiments. As I implied in my other remarks (list), I often don't take most of the techno-stuff on most of my outings. I like navigation, and prefer to do it in the clasical way with a chart on the deck and compass on the deck. I carry a spare paddle and have needed it at times, same for the tow line. My own history on the water has a lot to do with what I take with me. I assume that neither of you would be out on winter water dressed in street clothes with your PFD attached to the rear deck. I don't really think any of our readers will be the ones that find themselves in a disaster on the sea coast. But we will have more victims this year. They will be novice paddlers that haven't had a course, read a book, read sea kayaker, ANorAK, or Atlantic Coastal Kayaker. They won't belong to a club or associate with other paddlers that have any significant level of skill. Their attitude is "What's to know? It's just water!" They have never been in cold water in their street clothes, and they learn from the press that cold water is fun in those annual Polar Bear Swims. In short, these victims are TOTALLY OUT of the LOOP as far as sea kayaking. And now they have those idiotic pond boats (ABSOLUTELY STABLE) to explore the coast. But, they'll always stay close to shore! Ain't it all just cosmic, as an old friend used to say! Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott said: <snip> I often get the feeling that certain people on this list are rather elitist in their thinking and as such are unwilling to even consider some of the, shall we for lack of a better description call them, lower levels of the sport. <snip> ------------ I'm not so sure its an elitist mentality that cognates through the windmills of some of our minds, but rather a genuine concern for the growing plethora of plastic recreational kayaks currently experiencing exponential growth across North America. Having said that, it used to be SOTs some of us used to worry and go on about on this list, and now would appear to be rec. kayaks that we express concern over (or more precisely, the minimalism associated with their use). I feel compelled to comment as one of my best friends just purchased a tandem recreational unit in the fall. He's a bright fellow, very safety conscious and somewhat aware of the hazards facing mariners around the shores of Vancouver Island (tides, sudden squalls, etc.). He intends paddling with his daughters (one at a time) as a way to spend quality time with them. He certainly has no intention from what I can gather, of investing in any kind of immersion apparel or safety gear. I very much doubt he will stray far from shore, and I'm certain there are no big or small crossings in store for him. He's phoned me for advice a few times on routes. As I've show up at his house a couple of times, near hypothermic, over the decades after winter storm paddling to borrow his shower, he certainly knows about the dangers of cold water immersion. While he constantly self-berates himself as a self-confessed "lower level sport" new enthusiast in my presence, I've never looked down on his purchase. I have simply maintained the minimum Coast Guard equipment standards to him for saltwater boating, and suggested he spend a tiny bit more on a couple of decent paddles (smaller shaft diameter and lighter weight) and properly fitted/comfortable PFD's. I also took him out in a borrowed sea kayak and made sure he got a good bounce from reflected seas deflecting off one of your American aircraft carriers anchored of the Victoria waterfront in some nasty chop. While I purposely scared a bit of the poop out of him, I did so with good intention -- not wanting him under any delusions or a misplaced fear factor. I certainly did not do this with any elitism in mind, and would not do this under normal circumstances. You also said: <snip> My point in my previous posts was simply that not everyone new to this sport needs to run out and buy every piece of rescue gear available to be a safe paddler. I feel that a newbie on this list could easily get the impression that they are being irresponsible and flirting with death if they do not carry a GPS, and a VHS radio, and flares and a spare paddle and paddlefloats, etc., whenever they go out paddling. ---------- I believe your original post alluded to the notion that carrying extra safety gear was illusionary in terms of making one a safer paddler -- and you questioned just how much gear one had to carry to consider themselves safe. I think Dave Kruger covered that a bit in a previous post, and pointed to some excellent resources on John Winters web site. I agree with your basic premise here, and certainly the new paddler carrying and depending upon their gear to get them out of trouble is precisely the person who might be "flirting with death". How many new paddlers have we heard about for whom the paddlefloat rescue proved to be a dismal failure in unexpected choppy waters after an unplanned exit too far from shore? Or the faithful PFD wearer overwhelmed by hypothermia, unable to reenter their kayak in cold water. I guess I've joined in this conversation as I'm wrestling with some of these issues in a personal way. I'll be finishing up my wife's kayak in the spring, and I'm kind of wondering just how much gear is going to make us a safe couple as we do a lot more paddling than we have done together in the past with just a rented boat (for her). I also wonder about some of my own adventures. While I can see Steve's point regarding skill-building paddles with a group at the mouth of the Columbia River and the lack of excessive gear being needed, I also realize that the other members of his team are kind of like your "extra safety gear". Paddling similar conditions or worse, solo, I tend to put more emphasis on preparation and equipment. I can think of dozens of heavy weather paddling episodes where I would not have gone out without redundant backups like two paddlefloats and a miniature raft (Sea Seat). With good skills operative, and judgment abilities commensurate with the intended personal goals and abilities, none of that equipment should ever be needed. But, I've blow rolls due to poor training regimes and faulty visualization skills, and have got into deep trouble from the necessarily poor judgment extent. These episodes are infrequent, but do happen -- and it was backup equipment that saved my Canadian bacon. You finish thus: <snip> And it is my belief that a new paddler would do a whole lot better investing in instruction and learning the skills then trying to purchase all of the swell toys often emphasized on this list. That's all! -------- Right you are Scott. While I guess I'll continue to give some priority to my individual equipment requirements and perceived needs, the answer for even the experienced paddler is still ongoing skill development or at least keeping skills well honed. I know Doug Alderson (one of the few instructor trainers in Canada) in our local club preaches skill development to new paddlers, and prefers not to put emphasis on new toys initially. In fact, your obvious overall tone here is to place the importance on investing in instruction and skill procurement. Funnily enough, there are many who claim that message to be an elitist one. You just can't win! Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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