At 08:49 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Would anyone >who has broken a paddle doing a paddlefloat rescue please let us know just >what you were doing at the point the paddle broke matt, i haven't broken one, but i've bent a crappy aluminum one. (i don't practice with our good ones. please don't tell me i should. we carry two or three take-apart spares whenever we go out.) what i was doing at the time, other than a normal re-entry, was simply weighing 250+ pounds. wes can attest to this and does so on his kayak page. bigger people need different solutions at times. ;-) kcd ps my husband, who weighs 250+ as well, didn't bend the paddle. go figure. maybe it's because i'm 5'4" and he's 5'10"? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
timbre_at_spiger.com wrote: > > i haven't broken one, but i've bent a crappy aluminum one.... > what i was doing at the > time, other than a normal re-entry, was simply weighing 250+ pounds. > > bigger people need different solutions at times. ;-) > > ps my husband, who weighs 250+ as well, didn't bend the paddle. go > figure. maybe it's because i'm 5'4" and he's 5'10"? Maybe because he's tall enough that his weight is out on the end of the paddle, where it's supported by the float, and a lot of your weight ends up closer to the middle, where the paddle is the weakest? -- Steve ("...and turn the Speculator up to 10") *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:54 AM 3/6/02 -0800, timbre_at_spiger.com wrote: >At 08:49 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote: >>Would anyone >>who has broken a paddle doing a paddlefloat rescue please let us know just >>what you were doing at the point the paddle broke > > >matt, > >i haven't broken one, but i've bent a crappy aluminum one. As have I. >ighing 250+ pounds. wes >can attest to this and does so on his kayak page. Same thing >bigger people need different solutions at times. ;-) I've taken to advocating that heavier people invest in a 2x4 for use in the initial learning of a paddlefloat recovery. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:24:24 -0500 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] broken/bent paddles during rescue > ps my husband, who weighs 250+ as well, didn't bend the paddle. go > figure. maybe it's because i'm 5'4" and he's 5'10"? Maybe because he's tall enough that his weight is out on the end of the paddle, where it's supported by the float, and a lot of your weight ends up closer to the middle, where the paddle is the weakest? --------------------- Hi All, I can't agree with that. When I do a solo re-entry with a paddle float, I hold the paddle shaft to the back of the cockpit rim with one hand and reach across the cockpit to the far gunwale with the other. I kick once near the surface to launch my chest up over the cockpit. Next, I shift both hands to the paddle shaft across the rear deck just behind the cockpit, being careful to keep A LITTLE BIT of weight on the outrigger. The shaft reaching out to the float IS NOT A chinning bar. I work my chest onto the rear deck just far enough to get my feet into the cockpit, then twist around and sit in the boat. At no time do I put my weight on the outrigger beyond that described above. -------- I still prefer rolling or, if necessary, reentry and roll. In the latter case, I take the paddle and gunwale in one hand on the top gunwale, and turn the hull up enough to get feet partway into cockpit. There is enough flotation in me and my PFD to hold boat and myself on my/its side at the surface. I only go nearly upside down for the last wiggle into the cockpit to get hold of the hull with my knees (get seated in the boat)- then sweep and roll. Paddle ends in a low brace across my waist. No twisting around to get the paddle loose from rear deck tie downs. I prefer minicell paddle floats; they never deflate. I always carry a spare paddle on the rear deck or front deck-depending on what I take that day (Greenland or Euro). Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dear paddling friends please allow a comment from the Baltic sea. Chuck wrote Hi All, I can't agree with that. When I do a solo re-entry with a paddle float, I hold the paddle shaft to the back of the cockpit rim with one hand and reach across the cockpit to the far gunwale with the other. I kick once near the surface to launch my chest up over the cockpit. Next, I shift both hands to the paddle shaft across the rear deck just behind the cockpit, being careful to keep A LITTLE BIT of weight on the outrigger. The shaft reaching out to the float IS NOT A chinning bar. I work my chest onto the rear deck just far enough to get my feet into the cockpit, then twist around and sit in the boat. At no time do I put my weight on the outrigger beyond that described above. Very sensible to keep the weight on the kayak instead of the paddle, good balance training. But try to go up behind your paddle, this will save you all the trouble of crawling up the rear deck . Put the top of one foot on the shaft and your face is right there where the kiwis have there rudder. greetings Havkajakcenter Svendborg v/ Lenze Middelberg Skaregaardsvej 9 Skovballe DK 5700 Svendborg (+45) 62541920 lenze_at_naturtur.dk www.havkajakcenter.dk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:26 am 7/03/2002 +0100, you wrote: >But try to go up behind your paddle, this will save you all the trouble of >crawling up the rear deck . >Put the top of one foot on the shaft and your face is right there where the >kiwis have there rudder. >greetings >Havkajakcenter Svendborg Sounds confusing. Are you in front (fore side) or aft side of the paddle? From the initial description it sounded as if you were on the fore side of the paddle, heading aft over the cockpit and on to the aft deck. If you are going to hit the rudder you are so far aft that your toes won't reach the cockpit!!! Or is the later part of the message about how not to do it? Alex . . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Alex, In my original post, I am coming up over the cockpit and going no further back onto the rear deck than is necessary to get my feet into the cockpit. It don't tie the paddle shaft in place behind the cockpit rim because I don't want a wave to jerk the paddlefloat up at the same time another wave or my weight might be driving the floatside gunwale in the other direction. I don't want a busted paddle shaft. I can hold it in place well enough by hand. Some people are less able to launch themselves up over the cockpit from the water. In that case, if they get Behind the paddle, so they are coming up onto the rear deck, their weight will be supported by only the stern half of the boat. The stern will sink a little deeper under their weight allowing them to more easily get their torso onto the rear deck. Then they turn their feet and legs toward the bow, kiss the rudder as subsequently mentioned, and then back into the cockpit. I think the second approach would require more time and effort working through position changes on the deck with more chance of seeing the GOLDEN ARCH. That's my interpretation... Hope it's right! Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck wrote: <SNIP>>>>>>>It don't tie the paddle shaft in place behind the cockpit rim because I don't want a wave to jerk the paddlefloat up at the same time another wave or my weight might be driving the floatside gunwale in the other direction. I don't want a busted paddle shaft. I can hold it in place well enough by hand.<<<<<SNIP> I can't picture a (non-breaking) wave driving the floatside gunwale in the other direction with much force (but I could see doing that with your weight). If that is a worry you could not blow up an inflatable float as much so that it would sink before it could put too much force on the paddle. One must still be careful of the paddle even if just holding it in place by hand while entering the kayak. The paddle shaft can easily get under the back of some kayak's cockpit rims. In that case they can get a lot of pressure put on the place of contact with the coaming rim when a wave lifts up the float and the paddler is putting a rotating force on the kayak when attempting to climb aboard (that is resisted by the paddle hooked under the back of the coaming). The leverage could also break or rip out the back of the coaming of a fiberglass kayak if the paddle didn't break first. If your kayak's coaming is high enough to let your paddle shaft get stuck under it I'd be very careful using the holding on to the paddle method since most do it by gripping both the coaming rim and the paddle shaft at the very back of the cockpit with one hand at the same time. Short of a very weak paddle or ocean breakers I have trouble imagining how one would break a paddle that is strong enough that they can use it as a brace against the shore to stabilize the kayak when entering or exiting it. I haven't seen or heard of more than a very few paddle breakage problems from fastening the paddle to the deck with cord, webbing or doubled up shock cord over the last 20 years. I do remember someone breaking a blade in half many years ago because they didn't slide the paddle blade very far under the deck lines before trying to climb up on the deck. The resulting leverage from the blade tip to just the middle of the blade would then have been tremendous. Chuck (or anyone), how do you stabilize the kayak for pumping out in rough seas after you have reentered it? Also, how big is the volume of the foam float you use (or what are its dimensions) and where do you store it? Do you also store it there when you have a big gear load? I like a lot about foam floats. Flat ones even make a much better device to aid in learning to Eskimo roll than an inflatable (which doesn't skim well on the surface). The fact that you don't have to inflate it during a rescue is great too (but then I guess nothing much is stopping me from inflating an inflated float in advance of needing it either). Well, I guess what is stopping me is the same thing that is stopping me from packing a foam float around too, the shear bulk of it and the rarity of having to use it. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt wrote: - >Chuck (or anyone), how do you stabilize the kayak for pumping >out in rough seas after you have reentered it? G'Day, Matt, Have only tried this rescue in swell and choppy water not breaking waves. Also I'm guessing your question relates both to reentry & roll with paddlefloat as well as to the standard paddlefloat entry, as the reentry and roll would introduce most water into the cockpit. After a reentry and roll with paddlefloat I hold the paddle clamped with one hand over the cockpit in front of me, lean forwards over the shaft and slightly towards the float if possible. Then usually use an electric pump or sometime both electric and hand pumps. Subjectively the most vulnerable time seems to be taking off the paddlefloat (which is inflatable). Though putting on the spray skirt is also awkward. Would be glad to hear of better methods. Am seriously thinking of putting some securing straps for the paddle in front of the cockpit. Our club is planning a 'breaking wave' session with appropriate supervision to practise and try out various recovery and rescue techniques. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter, A trick that was shown to me to help get the paddlefloat off easily is to open the air valves on it and partially submerge the paddle blade, being careful not to push the blade so far down that water actually enters the valves. The water pressure quickly deflates the float. This only works on paddlefloats that have valves that can be left either in the open or closed positions. Mine has a push/pull type valve that can be opened and closed with your teeth and one hand, others I have seen will not allow this technique to work. Steve Peter O' wrote Subjectively the most vulnerable time seems to be taking off the paddlefloat (which is inflatable). Though putting on the spray skirt is also awkward. Would be glad to hear of better methods. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes, That's a fantastic idea! You'll also get a longer lever arm with an 8' 2x4 (a 220cm 'average' paddle is only 7'--only a 245cm is actually 8'). The weight of the 2x4 would also help prevent a "yellow rainbow". Its surface area would also be more 'comfortable' for someone putting all their weight on (not that they should, but many do on the first try). Shawn Wes Boyd wrote: >I've taken to advocating that heavier people invest in a 2x4 for use in >the initial learning of a paddlefloat recovery. Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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