PaddleWise by thread

From: <timbre_at_spiger.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:54:17 -0800
At 08:49 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Would anyone
>who has broken a paddle doing a paddlefloat rescue please let us know just
>what you were doing at the point the paddle broke


matt,

i haven't broken one, but i've bent a crappy aluminum one.  (i don't 
practice with our good ones.  please don't tell me i should.  we carry two 
or three take-apart spares whenever we go out.)  what i was doing at the 
time, other than a normal re-entry, was simply weighing 250+ pounds.  wes 
can attest to this and does so on his kayak page.

bigger people need different solutions at times.  ;-)

kcd

ps   my husband, who weighs 250+ as well, didn't bend the paddle.  go 
figure.  maybe it's because i'm 5'4" and he's 5'10"?



***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:24:24 -0500
timbre_at_spiger.com wrote:
> 
> i haven't broken one, but i've bent a crappy aluminum one....
>  what i was doing at the
> time, other than a normal re-entry, was simply weighing 250+ pounds.  
> 
> bigger people need different solutions at times.  ;-)
> 
> ps   my husband, who weighs 250+ as well, didn't bend the paddle.  go
> figure.  maybe it's because i'm 5'4" and he's 5'10"?

Maybe because he's tall enough that his weight is out on the end of the
paddle, where it's supported by the float, and a lot of your weight ends
up closer to the middle, where the paddle is the weakest?

-- 
Steve ("...and turn the Speculator up to 10")
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:22:19
At 10:54 AM 3/6/02 -0800, timbre_at_spiger.com wrote:
>At 08:49 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>Would anyone
>>who has broken a paddle doing a paddlefloat rescue please let us know just
>>what you were doing at the point the paddle broke
>
>
>matt,
>
>i haven't broken one, but i've bent a crappy aluminum one.  

As have I.

>ighing 250+ pounds.  wes 
>can attest to this and does so on his kayak page.

Same thing

>bigger people need different solutions at times.  ;-)

I've taken to advocating that heavier people invest in a 2x4 for use in the
initial learning of a paddlefloat recovery. 

-- Wes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wes Boyd's Kayak Place               http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm
Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:47:03 4
Date:          Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:24:24 -0500
From:          Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
To:            PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net
Subject:       Re: [Paddlewise] broken/bent paddles during rescue

> ps   my husband, who weighs 250+ as well, didn't bend the paddle.  go
> figure.  maybe it's because i'm 5'4" and he's 5'10"?

Maybe because he's tall enough that his weight is out on the end of the
paddle, where it's supported by the float, and a lot of your weight ends
up closer to the middle, where the paddle is the weakest?
---------------------

Hi All,
I can't agree with that. When I do a solo re-entry with a paddle 
float, I hold the paddle shaft to the back of the cockpit rim with 
one hand and reach across the cockpit to the far gunwale with the 
other. I kick once near the surface to launch my chest up over the 
cockpit. 

Next, I shift both hands to the paddle shaft across the rear deck just 
behind the cockpit, being careful to keep A LITTLE BIT of weight on 
the outrigger.  The shaft reaching out to the float IS NOT A chinning 
bar. 

I work my chest onto the rear deck just far enough to get my feet 
into the cockpit, then twist around and sit in the boat.

At no time do I put my weight on the outrigger beyond that described 
above.
--------
I still prefer rolling or, if necessary, reentry and roll. In the 
latter case, I take the paddle and gunwale in one hand on the top 
gunwale, and turn the hull up enough to get feet partway into 
cockpit. There is enough flotation in me and my PFD to hold boat and 
myself on my/its side at the surface. 

I only go nearly upside down for the last wiggle into the cockpit to 
get hold of the hull with my knees (get seated in the boat)- then 
sweep and roll.  Paddle ends in a low brace across my waist. No 
twisting around to get the paddle loose from rear deck tie downs.

I prefer minicell paddle floats; they never deflate.

I always carry a spare paddle on the rear deck or front deck-depending on 
what I take that day (Greenland or Euro).

Chuck Sutherland
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: lenze <lenze_at_naturtur.dk>
subject: [Paddlewise] SV: broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:26:54 +0100
Dear paddling friends please allow a comment from the Baltic sea.

Chuck wrote
Hi All,
I can't agree with that. When I do a solo re-entry with a paddle
float, I hold the paddle shaft to the back of the cockpit rim with
one hand and reach across the cockpit to the far gunwale with the
other. I kick once near the surface to launch my chest up over the
cockpit.

Next, I shift both hands to the paddle shaft across the rear deck just
behind the cockpit, being careful to keep A LITTLE BIT of weight on
the outrigger.  The shaft reaching out to the float IS NOT A chinning
bar.

I work my chest onto the rear deck just far enough to get my feet
into the cockpit, then twist around and sit in the boat.

At no time do I put my weight on the outrigger beyond that described
above.
Very sensible to keep the weight on the kayak instead of the paddle, good
balance training.
But try to go up behind your paddle, this will save you all the trouble of
crawling up the rear deck .
Put the top of one foot on the shaft and your face is right there where the
kiwis have there rudder.
greetings
Havkajakcenter Svendborg
v/ Lenze Middelberg
Skaregaardsvej 9 Skovballe
DK 5700 Svendborg
(+45) 62541920
lenze_at_naturtur.dk
www.havkajakcenter.dk
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Alex Ferguson <a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] SV: broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:59:46 +1300
At 07:26 am 7/03/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>But try to go up behind your paddle, this will save you all the trouble of
>crawling up the rear deck .
>Put the top of one foot on the shaft and your face is right there where the
>kiwis have there rudder.
>greetings
>Havkajakcenter Svendborg

Sounds confusing. Are you in front (fore side) or aft side of the paddle? 
 From the initial description it sounded as if you were on the fore side of 
the paddle, heading aft over the cockpit and on to the aft deck. If you are 
going to hit the rudder you are so far aft that your toes won't reach the 
cockpit!!!

Or is the later part of the message about how not to do it?

Alex
.
.

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] SV: broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:08:09 4
Hi Alex,

In my original post, I am coming up over the cockpit and going no 
further back onto the rear deck than is necessary to get my feet into 
the cockpit.

It don't tie the paddle shaft in place behind the cockpit rim because 
I don't want a wave to jerk the paddlefloat up at the same time 
another wave or my weight might be driving the floatside gunwale in 
the other direction. I don't want a busted paddle shaft. I can hold 
it in place well enough by hand.

Some people are less able to launch themselves up over the cockpit 
from the water. In that case, if they get Behind the paddle, so they 
are coming up onto the rear deck, their weight will be supported by 
only the stern half of the boat. The stern will sink a little deeper 
under their weight allowing them to more easily get their torso onto 
the rear deck.  Then they turn their feet and legs toward the bow, 
kiss the rudder as subsequently mentioned, and then back into the 
cockpit. 

I think the second approach would require more time and effort 
working through position changes on the deck with more chance of 
seeing the GOLDEN ARCH.

That's my interpretation... Hope it's right!

Chuck Sutherland
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] SV: broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:54:52 -0800
Chuck wrote:
<SNIP>>>>>>>It don't tie the paddle shaft in place behind the cockpit rim
because
I don't want a wave to jerk the paddlefloat up at the same time
another wave or my weight might be driving the floatside gunwale in
the other direction. I don't want a busted paddle shaft. I can hold
it in place well enough by hand.<<<<<SNIP>

I can't picture a (non-breaking) wave driving the floatside gunwale in the
other direction with much force (but I could see doing that with your
weight). If that is a worry you could not blow up an inflatable float as
much so that it would sink before it could put too much force on the paddle.
One must still be careful of the paddle even if just holding it in place by
hand while entering the kayak. The paddle shaft can easily get under the
back of some kayak's cockpit rims. In that case they can get a lot of
pressure put on the place of contact with the coaming rim when a wave lifts
up the float and the paddler is putting a rotating force on the kayak when
attempting to climb aboard (that is resisted by the paddle hooked under the
back of the coaming).  The leverage could also break or rip out the back of
the coaming of a fiberglass kayak if the paddle didn't break first. If your
kayak's coaming is high enough to let your paddle shaft get stuck under it
I'd be very careful using the holding on to the paddle method since most do
it by gripping both the coaming rim and the paddle shaft at the very back of
the cockpit with one hand at the same time.

Short of a very weak paddle or ocean breakers I have trouble imagining how
one would break a paddle that is strong enough that they can use it as a
brace against the shore to stabilize the kayak when entering or exiting it.
I haven't seen or heard of more than a very few paddle breakage problems
from fastening the paddle to the deck with cord, webbing or doubled up shock
cord over the last 20 years. I do remember someone breaking a blade in half
many years ago because they didn't slide the paddle blade very far under the
deck lines before trying to climb up on the deck. The resulting leverage
from the blade tip to just the middle of the blade would then have been
tremendous.

Chuck (or anyone), how do you stabilize the kayak for pumping out in rough
seas after you have reentered it? Also, how big is the volume of the foam
float you use (or what are its dimensions) and where do you store it? Do you
also store it there when you have a big gear load? I like a lot about foam
floats. Flat ones even make a much better device to aid in learning to
Eskimo roll than an inflatable (which doesn't skim well on the surface). The
fact that you don't have to inflate it during a rescue is great too (but
then I guess nothing much is stopping me from inflating an inflated float in
advance of needing it either). Well, I guess what is stopping me is the same
thing that is stopping me from packing a foam float around too, the shear
bulk of it and the rarity of having to use it.


Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com/


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] SV: broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:04:01 +1100
Matt wrote: -
>Chuck (or anyone), how do you stabilize the kayak for pumping
>out in rough seas after you have reentered it?

G'Day,

Matt, Have only tried this rescue in swell and choppy water not breaking
waves. Also I'm guessing your question relates both to reentry & roll with
paddlefloat as well as to the standard paddlefloat entry, as the reentry and
roll would introduce most water into the cockpit.

After a reentry and roll with paddlefloat I hold the paddle clamped with one
hand over the cockpit in front of me, lean forwards over the shaft and
slightly towards the float if possible. Then usually use an electric pump or
sometime both electric and hand pumps. Subjectively the most vulnerable time
seems to be taking off the paddlefloat (which is inflatable). Though putting
on the spray skirt is also awkward. Would be glad to hear of better methods.
Am seriously thinking of putting some securing straps for the paddle in
front of the cockpit.

Our club is planning a 'breaking wave' session with appropriate supervision
to practise and try out various recovery and rescue techniques.

All the best, PeterO

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Steven A. Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] SV: broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:51:44 -0800
Peter,





A trick that was shown to me to help get the paddlefloat off easily is to open
the air valves on it and partially submerge the paddle blade, being careful
not to push the blade so far down that water actually enters the valves. The
water pressure quickly deflates the float.





This only works on paddlefloats that have valves that can be left either in
the open or closed positions. Mine has a push/pull type valve that can be
opened and closed with your teeth and one hand, others I have seen will not
allow this technique to work.





Steve





Peter O' wrote


   Subjectively the most vulnerable time


  seems to be taking off the paddlefloat (which is inflatable). Though putting

  on the spray skirt is also awkward. Would be glad to hear of better methods.







***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] broken/bent paddles during rescue
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:03:13 -0800 (PST)
Wes,

That's a fantastic idea!  You'll also get a longer lever arm with an 8'
2x4 (a 220cm 'average' paddle is only 7'--only a 245cm is actually 8').
 The weight of the 2x4 would also help prevent a "yellow rainbow".

Its surface area would also be more 'comfortable' for someone putting
all their weight on (not that they should, but many do on the first
try).

Shawn

Wes Boyd wrote:
>I've taken to advocating that heavier people invest in a 2x4 for use
in 
>the initial learning of a paddlefloat recovery. 

Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:28 PDT