Hello, all, I'm considered "hard to shop for," so I am in the enviable position each year of issuing a modest wish list. Although I took a class in navigation and actually enjoy it, I am a consumer electronics junkie, and the thought of having one more thing with batteries and an LED screen has invoked serious silicon lust -- I am interested in getting a GPS unit, and wondered what your recommendations were. I've read the preserved thread regarding GPS software and the fine points of various chart/map suppliers and download techniques. However, the thread doesn't say much about GPS devices, and is from 1999 anyway; I presume a few things have changed. Lisa W. ______________________________ lisa_at_cadence90.com bikes, books, internet radio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I've read the preserved thread regarding GPS software and the fine > points of various chart/map suppliers and download > techniques. However, > the thread doesn't say much about GPS devices, and is from > 1999 anyway; > I presume a few things have changed. > > Lisa W. Lisa, what will you use it for? Serious navigation or playing? Just on the water, or hiking/biking etc as well? It would help to get a bit more granular regarding your intended uses. But, it should be stated (and I'm sure you are well aware) that any electronic device should not be the sole means of navigation. You took the navigation class, so you have a leg up on many people already regarding that sort of thing. I use my Garmin eTrex for the features such as trip distance, speed, etc. Works great. I do what little actual navigation I need to do manually, but I check it with the GPS to get a warm fuzzy that I'm on the right track, and that my manual navigation skills are growing. The most I've relied on it was a canoe trip last summer, along the border of W. Virgina and Maryland on the Upper Potomac River. There were camp sites just off the river, following the C&O Canal Tow Path, and without the GPS would have had an almost impossible time figuring out where they were. Almost all of them are not visible from the water, so you need to know when/where to land and look on foot. This was done with leg distances and Coordinates - not electronic maps. Worked well. My budget was, and still is, very tight, so I had to limit myself to a simple unit that did the few things that I really wanted, versus the fun stuff, like the maps. I think you'll find that the map feature is very popular and if used for actual navigation, will be a huge benefit. There are debates about the eTrex's claim to be "waterproof", particularly regarding the actual electronics versus the battery compartment. I've had no problem, and have submersed it only once during a canoe mishap. It has, however, been subjected to a fair amount of salty sea spray and some breaking waves. I intend to get a bag for it, but so far, no problems. The eTrex is small, light weight and easy to use. No complaints, but I haven't been a very demanding or rugged user, either. You might also hit some of the Geocaching sites to get opinions on GPS units. Those folks figuratively live and die by their GPS units, so should have some valuable insight and advice. By the way, I used to provide the family with a wish list. Now, I go buy all my gifts, give them to my wife who distributes them to people (the kids, parents, etc) who give them to me. They all think my wife did the shopping, though, so I still have to act surprised. But, I'm now getting EXACTLY what I wanted!!!! Good luck and Merry Christmas. Rick - Poquoson, VA Dave G. - if you run into a "Sylvia", "McCall" or "Barbour" around town, don't tell them about my dirty little Christmas shopping secret! :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Lisa Williams wrote: -- I am interested in getting a > GPS unit, and wondered what your recommendations were. > Hi Lisa, I have a Garmin 12 which I am happy with. Several friends have since bought Garmins' Etrex, which is smaller and lighter, but I find their screen is too hard to read, and I have 20/20 vision. Also the battery compartment looks like a water trap, but note the following comments on my 12. While using my 12 in light rain and snow it failed due to water damage, which appeared to enter via the battery compartment. The unit was replaced under warranty, and my high-tech modification was to wrap a strip of car inner tube around the unit from top to bottom, thereby holding the battery compartment tightly closed. I also dry-bag it. During navigation training in the bush the 12 had better reception than the Etrex under thick canopy, and was much faster to acquire position. A comment was made that due to the higher power use of the 12 (four AA batteries versus two in the Etrex) it would not be as economic for an organisation using them for prolonged training. No affiliation with Garmin etc. Cheers John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>While using my 12 in light rain and snow it failed due to water damage, >which appeared to enter via the battery compartment. The unit >was replaced >under warranty, and my high-tech modification was to wrap a strip of car >inner tube around the unit from top to bottom, thereby holding >the battery >compartment tightly closed. I also dry-bag it. Hmmm. I've had better success with the 12 and water. Over time I've owned both the 12 and the 12XL. My father also has the 12. I guess there've been little improvements over time. I notice for example even a difference in backlighting between some 12's (blue vs 3 level green). With my first 12, I took Garmin at their word and submersed it in the bathtub for 30 minutes and then checked for incursion in the battery compartment. I found none (though it was still fairly new). It continued to perform well in use, though mostly in rain on hikes here on the west coast (Vancouver), rather than in a sea water environment. I never sheltered it from water though. Though it's now been given away, I haven't heard yet of it failing. For the past couple years I've been using the Garmin II+, mostly because I appreciate the form factor (either landscape or portrait, it's ability to rest viewable on a flat surface and the antenna is detachable and extendable with just a simple cable). The city database is helpful on the road as well. Mapping would be handy but I just connect my Palm PDA to it when I want that. It two is holding up well in the wet, though I'm not sure there is quite as good a seal around the battery compartment compared to the 12 series. It's seen more sea water than the 12 ever did, both kayaking and sailing, and still it's not showing any signs. The II/II (and I suspect the V as well) have the added issue/benefit of a split case design that can be opened via 4 screws, with a rubber gasket between them. On the downside, there's a greater chance of this failing and becoming a point of entry for water, when compared to a 12 series. But on the plus side, it gives you the option to open the case (post-warranty period) and gain comfort from the examination that the interior is in fact still dry, should you have any cause for concern. So far so good however. A word of warning that it may well not be a good idea to put a garmin 12 (or like device with a non-detachable antenna) in the car window while driving, tethered to a PDA for mapping and remote display. Even though the interior temperature of the car is cool, direct sun can apparently overheat the LCD crystal and permanently damage/blacken the screen, as my father did with his (Garmin, unprompted, chose to repair it at no expense). There are certainly some very interesting current models to look at however depending on the price you want to spend. The rhino (FRS/GPS combo, the 72, and the V) Most software (desktop or PDA) should have no integration trouble assuming a reasonably priced data cable can be attained (See http://www.pfranc.com/ for cheaper cable options). That is, if you're only looking for navigational data feed. It can be quite handy to use software however to manage waypoints (swap them in and out in sets, if you're limited to say 500 or 1000 waypoints on the GPS), and do route editing. I use software on my Palm PDA to do that as needed in the field. Software is always a step behind the latest and greatest GPSs. For example Etrex support is just coming to various PDA titles I find. But virtually everything on the planet will have support for GPS's such as the 12, 12XL, II(+) and III(+). And speaking of GPS and PDA's, the new year should finally bring us Garmin's PalmOS device (they've been a licensee forever, and are finally coming to market with a device). Those who've seen what's in the works were very impressed. I can't imagine where they're going to go with that much power, (PalmOS 5 running on a Motorola ARM series 6 chip at 150Mhz), but it should be interesting. Definitely consider the following resource sites for in-depth reviews, and all matter of related GPS info: http://joe.mehaffey.com/ http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/ Regards, Craig Bowers *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I rely on my Garmin GPS-12 for a lot of outdoor stuff, and it's very reliable. It is not thoroughly waterproof, however, so for paddling it lives in a See-Thru Drybag. Some paddlers I know use the Garmin GPS-76 because it IS more waterproof, and I've seen them get wet on trips and keep on ticking... I just got the new Garmin GPS-72, which is a scaled-down version of the 76, but definitely waterproof, and with similar bells and whistles. It's too new for me to be familiar with all its features but it can accept maps from Mapsource, and it does have an impressive collection of tide table data in it.... Joe Pylka >>>Although I took a class in navigation and actually enjoy it, I am a consumer electronics junkie, and the thought of having one more thing with batteries and an LED screen has invoked serious silicon lust -- I am interested in getting a GPS unit, and wondered what your recommendations were. I've read the preserved thread regarding GPS software and the fine points of various chart/map suppliers and download techniques. However, the thread doesn't say much about GPS devices, and is from 1999 anyway; I presume a few things have changed. Lisa W. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:29 PM 12/3/2002 -0500, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com wrote: >Good luck and Merry Christmas. > >Rick - Poquoson, VA > >Dave G. - if you run into a "Sylvia", "McCall" or "Barbour" around town, >don't tell them about my dirty little Christmas shopping secret! :-) LOL, No problem, Rick. your secret is safe with me (hmmm, could be a chance for a future bribe??) ;-) BTW, my Lowrance GlobalMap 100 mapping GPS has been invaluable for getting me out of the myriad creeks and islands around Plumtree. I use it in conjunction with OzExplorer (great shareware) and a scanned nav map of the lower Chesapeake Bay and d/l'ed aerial/sat maps. The only other thing I could wish for is that the GPS would show me what is high and dry at low tide. ;-) Dave G. Poquoson, Va. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 1:48 PM -0500 12/3/02, Dave Gorjup wrote: >BTW, my Lowrance GlobalMap 100 mapping GPS has been invaluable for >getting me out of the myriad creeks and islands around Plumtree. I >use it in conjunction with OzExplorer (great shareware) and a >scanned nav map of the lower Chesapeake Bay and d/l'ed aerial/sat >maps. What other GPS units allow you to down-load your own scanned maps/aerial photos/satellite image? Brian *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:08 PM 12/5/2002 -0700, Brian Curtiss wrote: >At 1:48 PM -0500 12/3/02, Dave Gorjup wrote: >>BTW, my Lowrance GlobalMap 100 mapping GPS has been invaluable for >>getting me out of the myriad creeks and islands around Plumtree. I use it >>in conjunction with OzExplorer (great shareware) and a scanned nav map of >>the lower Chesapeake Bay and d/l'ed aerial/sat maps. > >What other GPS units allow you to down-load your own scanned maps/aerial >photos/satellite image? > >Brian Whoops, guess I wasn't very clear. I don't download that stuff to the Globalmap. I use the down-loadable marine nav map that came with it (vrs the street maps) and use the scanned nav chart in OzExplorer for trip planning and downloading way points and tracks to the Globalmap. I carry along printed portions of the scanned nav chart and printed downloaded aerial/sat maps for validation against the maps in the GPS info. I don't like to get lost in the marshes. ;-) Hope this is clearer, Dave G. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> The only other thing I could wish for is that the GPS would > show me what is > high and dry at low tide. ;-) > Dave G. > Poquoson, Va. Don't that just stink! If there were one wish I could have for Poquoson, it just might have to be a few extra feet of water depth. I get tired of looking at all those "1's and "2"s on the chart. On the other hand, it does provide "some" opportunity to keep the motor boat traffic at a respectable distance. I've only seen a few small boats venture back into and around Cow Island / Lloyds Bay, or in the little bays on the east side of Plumtree. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Lisa Williams wrote: > I've read the preserved thread regarding GPS software and the fine > points of various chart/map suppliers and download techniques. However, > the thread doesn't say much about GPS devices, and is from 1999 anyway; > I presume a few things have changed. The price difference between units that support mapping vs. the basic non-mapping ones has narrowed and I'd recommend you get one which supports maps. That will also make it much more useful for other activities besides kayaking. I use a Garmin eMap with which I'm very happy (small size, fairly large screen, good maps available, audible beeper for warning messages), but it's not waterproof so I put it in a clear AquaPac pouch for kayaking. Good units to consider that are more waterproof are: Garmin Map76, eTrex Legend, Magellan SporTrak Map/Pro, Magellan Meridian series. The choice between these would depend on what other uses you'll have for the GPS. An example of a fairly recent night paddle we did is shown at: http://prathman.home.attbi.com/Image32.gif The map on the unit looks the same as shown there but is in grey-scale instead of color. The maps show good shoreline detail for identifying points/bays/islands/etc. and also include buoys, lights, and other navigational aids. In addition to showing your position, the GPS is nice for monitoring your speed to within about 0.1 knots and seeing what your actual direction of progress is when you have effects from tidal currents and/or winds. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have had a Garmin GPS 12XL for several years, and I am still satisfied with it. One reason to choose Garmin over another brand is that there is more freeware and shareware software available for it on the Web. The Garmin Etrexes are very nice for on-land use, but if I had to replace my 12XL, I would get a GPS 72 or GPS 76. Unlike the Etrex line, these units float and have all control buttons on the front, which should make them easier to operate on the deck of a kayak or through a watertight bag. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Lisa, I have been using a Magellan Meridian Platinum for about 8 months. It was a tough choice but after having a Garmen eTrex Vista that kept crashing on me, and getting a poor response from Garmin, I wanted to try something else. My goals were to have a unit that would be used as much of the time in the car as in back country. Reliability was key importance. The good points for the Meridian is the large LCD that is easy for me to read when down by the gear shift. The eTrax while has a sharper screen is much smaller and more difficult to read if not held close up. The Maridians navigation buttons are easy to use. The reviews I have read show the road maps to be more accurate and from a much newer resource than those for the Garmin eTrex's. On the other hand the Garmin topo maps are a bit better. I use a 128 MB memory card with my unit with a little tweaking which works well despite the makers claims that it won't work. I got this unit because I thought it would be very useful to upload topo maps to it since I love hiking. Here is the shocker. The maps SUCK! Topo map makers claim to have trails and topo features as their selling point. Well. First I tried the Magellen Map Send Topo $100. It did not have almost any trail I have ever heard of on it State or National. NOT even the Appalachian Trail where I have hiked it. It did not even show many of the state parks I like to visit. Their street maps despite having good reviews have quite a few mistakes. Then I compared its topo feature to view some cliffy area at a local state park. Boy was I shocked to find out that it totally lacked any detail that would have suggested any cliff, or steep hill for that matter. Next I tired DeLorme's TOPO USA ($100) which is a multi CD topo program. Although it was far superior at showing topo features in places like Washington, when I looked for the clifs in the my state park, it just showed them as rolling hills! I sure am glad I am not using these instruments to navigate around a cliff in a blizzard. NOTE, as with all brands of GPS, you can not upload another makers maps to the unit. You must view them on screen and print them out. You can only upload the waypoints or other data. Apparently TOPO USA gets their data from the same provider as Magellan as I found that many of the errors that I found on one would be on the other. I did spend about half an hour going over some of the errors with Magellan's engineers and was impressed at their interest. I did not call DeLorme though. So really, the maps are lousy on both the unit and on the PC. That said, I still like the mapping software from both companies as it is better than nothing for general use, but NOT for critical use. When in areas where cliffs and other substantial obstacles or hazzards exist, you really need to rely on good old paper maps from USGS or someplace like Trails Illustrated. Then again, I think a person has to be a fool to be in the backcountry and rely on any electronic gaditry anyway. If I am going to carry any form of navigational aid, it will include at least one paper map and compass. Since this is in regards to using on your kayak, lets think of water proofness. Although my unit is supposedly submersible I treat it as if it were not, just as with my submersible VHF radio. I keep it in a clear electronics pouch on deck or inside a deck bag. Although I have not heard of GPS failures do to water, I have heard of many VHF radios that had quick and unexpected deaths when exposed to water despite being guaranteed to withstand it. Guarantees don't do you a darn bit of good when your out on a remote lake or ocean. The good thing about the eTrex is that it is much smaller and lighter than the Meridian. Signal pick up times in my experience are hugely exaggerated. The only time I have every had a GPS lock on quickly is when in an open field if I have not moved at all since turning it off and that only a couple minutes have passed. Normally it takes at least a minute for the three units I have tried. Sometimes several minutes. On one last note, I find a good GPS resource to be is <joe.mehaffey.com>. The site has lots of good info and links. Unfortunately it is not the best organized but hey, he does it on his own time and it is a great rescue. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions. Bob Brubaker, Chicago .......................................................... Robert Brubaker "Hitch your wagon to a star." Ralph Waldo Emerson http://home.earthlink.net/~rbrub/ .......................................................... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). 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Robert, Good review, but I've interspersed a few comments on the maps from different manufacturers. Robert Brubaker wrote: > The reviews I have read > show the road maps to be more accurate and from a much newer resource > than those for the Garmin eTrex's. This is true for the Garmin "Roads & Recreation" maps, which are based on the US Census Bureau's TIGER database from quite a few years back. The Magellan MapSend street maps are from more recent TIGER data. But Garmin also has several other street map products which are more up to date and in the areas I've checked are generally better than MapSend. These include MetroGuide-USA from TeleAtlas and City Navigator from NavTech. Despite the names, the current versions of both cover rural areas as well as urban ones and include good shoreline and marine NavAid data. They work with Garmin's various mapping GPS units, including the eTrex series. > On the other hand the Garmin topo > maps are a bit better. The topo maps from both Magellan and Garmin are based on the USGS 1:100,000 series maps. The digitization used by the two vendors is different with Magellan having a more compressed storage with some loss of detail. But starting with the 1:100000 series means neither comes close to the level of detail in the USGS 1:24000 maps usually used for hiking. > > Next I tired DeLorme's TOPO USA ($100) which is a multi CD topo program. > Although it was far superior at showing topo features in places like > Washington, when I looked for the clifs in the my state park, it just > showed them as rolling hills! Unfortunately DeLorme's Topo USA is also based on the USGS 1:100,000 series maps and shares most of the same lack of detail issues as the versions from Garmin and Magellan. OTOH, DeLorme also sells the 3D TopoQuad product that is based on the far more detailed 1:24000 USGS maps as are the maps from National Geographic. None of these maps are uploadable to GPS units, but you can use them for planning a trip and then upload waypoint, route, and track information to the GPS. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert Brubaker wrote: >Hi Lisa, > >I have been using a Magellan Meridian Platinum for about 8 months. It >was a tough choice but after having a Garmen eTrex Vista that kept >crashing on me, and getting a poor response from Garmin, I wanted to try >something else. > > I had a different experience, for some reason my eTrex kept turning off, they replaced it no questions asked! >The reviews I have read >show the road maps to be more accurate and from a much newer resource >than those for the Garmin eTrex's. > I have not found any problems with Garmin's road's from their Roads and Recreation CD, shoreline detail in both the R&R and Navigation and Lights CD's leaves something to be desired, but nothing you can't handle. >I got this unit because I thought it would be very useful to upload topo >maps to it since I love hiking. Here is the shocker. The maps SUCK! >Topo map makers claim to have trails and topo features as their selling >point. > My understanding, as it applies to Garmin's GPS's is that you can't upload TOPO's your GPS from any source other than Garmin's CDs, You can down load tracks/way points to other map programs based on USGS' TOPO series such as produced by National Geo. I think you also can upload way points from the National Geo maps, (they have a track/way point capability built in to their TOPO maps). I've asked for the NG TOPO map for my area for Christmas, I'll let you know how it works. >The good thing about the eTrex is that it is much smaller and lighter >than the Meridian. > You bet Hope this helps John Blackburn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi all, I've had the National Geographic Topo (formerly TOPO!)program and maps for several years now. If they have maps for your region I can highly recommend them. I've used them quite a bit for the Boundary Waters, Voyagers National Park and the US portion of Lake Superior. The GPS option is great and also comes with a basic map of the US. It works flawlessly with my GPS unit (a Garmin 48). One nice feature is the map exchange where users can upload waypoint lists, routes and other info. For my area they've posted things like complete campsite and portage lists of the BWCA, the Lake Superior Watertrail, Cross Country Ski Trails in Superior National Forests and many others. Using Topo you can also upload your own routes onto the maps which is a fun feature when you want to compare your actual route to your planned paddling itinerary. -Patrick At 10:27 PM -0500 12/4/02, John Blackburn wrote: >> >My understanding, as it applies to Garmin's GPS's is that you can't >upload TOPO's your GPS from any source other than Garmin's CDs, You >can down load tracks/way points to other map programs based on USGS' >TOPO series such as produced by National Geo. I think you also can >upload way points from the National Geo maps, (they have a track/way >point capability built in to their TOPO maps). I've asked for the >NG TOPO map for my area for Christmas, I'll let you know how it >works. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hello, I'm using an Etrek Legend. Bought from Sportsmart for $169 less the $50 rebate - bought online, no tax. They sent me a special promotional email. Pretty good deal. It comes with the computer connections (PC only). I have used the USA-Topo map. I returned it. I thought the detail was weak. I think I need the Bluecharts. I think I'll try the USA roadmaps for driving. Main reason to get it *with my VHF radio* was to be able to tell the coast guard where I am - and know myself. This was motivated by a fog cover that took less than 20 minutes to swamp us offshore - less than 15 foot visibility very quickly. It was a beautiful clear day when we left.... The water is cold here. So far, the main advantage of this unit has been tracking my routes. I set my own waypoints and save them to PC. It's cool to have your own waypoint set on shore and tell the gps to get you back there. That's very nice on a return heading in a swell. It also tells you how far you have to go to 1/10th of a mile. The directional dial for this function can be quite big. Otherwise.... I do find it a pain to consult while paddling. It's small and hard to read - particularly in the clear dry-bag in which I sometimes carry it. I can't read it very well with my sunglasses on either. Imagine, paddling, remove sunglasses, pick up gps, read/set/whatever, replace sunglasses, resume paddling. I imagine it'll be most useful while I'm beached. One set of rechargeable batteries last about a day. It does take a bit of time to get a reading. You have to be moving to get a heading. (I know that sounds dumb or obvious, but it means the the gps does not replace a compass.) Waterproof - yes, so far. I rinse it off at the end of the day. One thing that gets under my skin is the cost of the maps software. It seems like you could easily spend double the cost of the unit on maps. Hint: find someone with which to share software. Overall satisfaction? Now it's at about 75%-80%. I do have the piece of mind for that next foggy day. I expect to take better advantage of the maps in the future - so the downlaod capability is a good thing. But it is not a "super cure" for those who get lost - for the most part, you will still need to do a good job when you read landmarks - unless you are retracing your path. That's all for now. John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "john" <jrhauer_at_attbi.com> > One set of rechargeable batteries last about a day. NiCd or NiMH? The latter are higher in capacity and would last longer. > You have to be moving to get a heading. (I know that > sounds dumb or obvious, but it means the the gps does not replace a > compass.) There are models of GPS units that have a built-in electronic compass. They eat batteries faster apparently. Personally, I'd rather trust my deck-mounted compass. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The electronic compass can give some features that are better than just using your deck compass. With mine I can point the GPS at a destination, press a button, give an approximate distance to the destination and end up with a way point for the destination. It is quite slick. On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 01:58 PM, Michael Daly wrote: > > There are models of GPS units that have a built-in electronic > compass. They eat batteries faster apparently. Personally, > I'd rather trust my deck-mounted compass. > Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> The electronic compass can give some features that are better than just > using your deck compass. With mine I can point the GPS at a > destination, press a button, give an approximate distance to the > destination and end up with a way point for the destination. It is > quite slick. I can do the same thing with my electronic compass free GPS. It's called projecting a waypoint. All I have to do is enter the bearing (read it from the deck or hiking compass) and estimated distance and there is a new waypoint. Can do the same thing from an existing waypoint. Take the bearing from the map, enter the distance and there is the new waypoint. People on the GPS groups discuss the usefulness of the built in electronic compasses since the first came out. There are problems with those things (calibration, levelling of the GPS etc.) one should be aware of -not only that the batteries drain faster. Ulli *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 03:13 PM, Ulli Hoeger wrote: >> The electronic compass can give some features that are better than >> just >> using your deck compass. With mine I can point the GPS at a >> destination, press a button, give an approximate distance to the >> destination and end up with a way point for the destination. It is >> quite slick. > > I can do the same thing with my electronic compass free GPS. It's > called projecting a waypoint. All I have to do is enter the bearing > (read it from the deck or hiking compass) and estimated distance and > there is a new waypoint. Can do the same thing from an existing > waypoint. Take the bearing from the map, enter the distance and > there is the new waypoint. > > People on the GPS groups discuss the usefulness of the built in > electronic compasses since the first came out. There are problems > with those things (calibration, levelling of the GPS etc.) one should > be aware of -not only that the batteries drain faster. > Yes, I am certain you can get a way point without the built in compass. But the electronic compass lets you do it more easily and accurately without the need of pulling a bearing off a chart. To get the bearing from the chart you need to first plot your location on the chart and then transfer the heading to a destination. With the built in compass it is point and shoot, then you can estimate by eye how far away your point is. The electronic compass is not a substitute for a compass and chart, but it can make on-the-fly navigation quicker, easier and more accurate. Like you say, electronic compasses are not fool proof. They need to be held approximately level and they need to be calibrated. But with my ETrex, calibration is easy and it tells you if it is not level. The ETrex can also be set to turn the compass off when you are moving faster than a set speed. If you set that speed low, the compass is only on when the GPS can't tell which direction you are going. Another useful feature with a charting GPS with an electronic compass is you can identified land marks while standing still. Hold the compass in front of you and face each land mark. The chart will adjust for the direction you are facing and you can read off the chart what the land marks are. That done you can more accurately refer to your paper chart for future navigation. Nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Nick Schade wrote: > > On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 03:13 PM, Ulli Hoeger wrote: > > I can do the same thing with my electronic compass free GPS. It's > > called projecting a waypoint. All I have to do is enter the bearing > > (read it from the deck or hiking compass) and estimated distance and > > there is a new waypoint. Can do the same thing from an existing > > waypoint. Take the bearing from the map, enter the distance and > > there is the new waypoint. > > > > People on the GPS groups discuss the usefulness of the built in > > electronic compasses since the first came out. There are problems > > with those things (calibration, levelling of the GPS etc.) one should > > be aware of -not only that the batteries drain faster. > > > > Yes, I am certain you can get a way point without the built in compass. > But the electronic compass lets you do it more easily and accurately > without the need of pulling a bearing off a chart. To get the bearing > from the chart you need to first plot your location on the chart and > then transfer the heading to a destination. With the built in compass > it is point and shoot, then you can estimate by eye how far away your > point is. No need to take out a paper chart and get a bearing from it. If you have a GPS (w/o mag compass) and a separate deck compass then you read the bearing to the object off your deck compass and project a waypoint on the GPS using that bearing. Estimating the distance by eye can be quite error-prone, but if you have two bearings from different points you can get the GPS to draw lines on its map with the two bearings and your waypoint will be located at the intersection point. [Create a waypoint when at point A and project waypoint B at the observed bearing with a distance past the real object. Then move to C and create a waypoint there plus a projected waypoint D at the new observed bearing. Finally make a route on the GPS from A - B - C - D. It will be in the form of an X with the unknown object at the crossing point.] > > Another useful feature with a charting GPS with an electronic compass > is you can identified land marks while standing still. Hold the compass > in front of you and face each land mark. The chart will adjust for the > direction you are facing and you can read off the chart what the land > marks are. That done you can more accurately refer to your paper chart > for future navigation. This is also easily done with a deck compass and a regular GPS. Just orient your GPS so mag. north on its map corresponds to north on the compass and you can quickly identify landmarks shown on the GPS map with the real-life counterparts. An electronic compass in the GPS can make the operations a bit faster, but I don't think it actually adds any capabilities beyond a GPS and separate deck compass. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 02:33 PM, Peter Rathmann wrote: > > This is also easily done with a deck compass and a regular GPS. Just > orient your GPS so mag. north on its map corresponds to north on the > compass and you can quickly identify landmarks shown on the GPS map > with > the real-life counterparts. > An electronic compass in the GPS can make the operations a bit faster, > but I don't think it actually adds any capabilities beyond a GPS and > separate deck compass. > I never said is was hard without the electronic compass. You can do just about every thing you want of a GPS with a compass and a chart. But, the primary reason for having a GPS is because it just does useful things quicker. The electronic compass is another step in the quick and easy direction. It is not a big deal one way or the other, but if you are already interested in hi-tek gadgets, the electronic compass is another one that makes small tasks just a little bit easier. If you are intent on doing things with traditional methods, you probably aren't too excited by the whole GPS thing anyway. I would like to see a GPS function for triangulating a waypoint. Point and press one heading, then move to another location and point-and-press for the next. This would be an easy software function for the GPS, it would be nice to see someone add it. Nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The electronic compass can give some features that are better than just using your deck compass. With mine I can point the GPS at a destination, press a button, give an approximate distance to the destination and end up with a way point for the destination. It is quite slick. On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 01:58 PM, Michael Daly wrote: > > There are models of GPS units that have a built-in electronic > compass. They eat batteries faster apparently. Personally, > I'd rather trust my deck-mounted compass. > Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > There are models of GPS units that have a built-in electronic > compass. They eat batteries faster apparently. True, the electronics for determining a magnetic field draws relatively high current. In addition, the unit has to be kept fairly level to be accurate, which is quite hard, if not impossible in a moving kayak. By the way, my eTrex Vista runs for well over a day on a pair of 1800 mAh NiMh cells (Magnetic compass and WAAS off and in battery saver mode). Kees *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/5/2002 1:43:15 PM Central Standard Time, nick_at_guillemot-kayaks.com writes: > The electronic compass can give some features that are better than just > using your deck compass. With mine I can point the GPS at a > destination, press a button, give an approximate distance to the > destination and end up with a way point for the destination. It is > quite slick. > Nick, Which model is that? Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Brian Curtiss wrote: > > At 1:48 PM -0500 12/3/02, Dave Gorjup wrote: > >BTW, my Lowrance GlobalMap 100 mapping GPS has been invaluable for > >getting me out of the myriad creeks and islands around Plumtree. I > >use it in conjunction with OzExplorer (great shareware) and a > >scanned nav map of the lower Chesapeake Bay and d/l'ed aerial/sat > >maps. > > What other GPS units allow you to down-load your own scanned > maps/aerial photos/satellite image? No dedicated consumer GPS receivers do that currently. OziExplorer works with all common GPS units to display scanned maps & photos on your PC screen and then you can create routes/waypoints/tracklogs for download to the GPS. There is a method for creating custom vector maps for the GM100 using OziMC (MapCreate) together with OziExplorer, but it is far from trivial. See http://www.gpsnuts.com/Ozi/OziMCJohnG/vector.html for details. Custom vector maps can also be created for the Garmin mapping GPS units with substantial effort using software available at: http://gps.chrisb.org/gps_mapper.htm . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I don't like to get lost in the marshes. ;-) BTW, Dave, being an "Islander", you probably already know this, but when you're out in the marshes of Plumtree, if you ever see a woman in her late 20's, wearing a white nightgown, calling out the name Billy, you've seen one of Poquoson's ghosts. Local lore has it that Billy (her son) went out towards the marsh during a storm to gather up a cow that went astray. I believe their farm was off of Messick Road and backed right up to the marsh. Anyway, when he was gone too long, the woman (I don't recall her name) went out to look for him. The cow, Billy, nor the woman were ever heard from again. Apparently, this happened sometime in the late 1800's. Also, if you see a Chesapeake Deadrise with a blue hull floating around unattended, stay away. Again, local legend has it that painting your hull blue is making fun of the ocean. Many, many years ago, a Poauoson waterman thumbed his nose at that notion, painted his hull blue, and on his first trip out into the bay, he and his boat were caught up in a freak storm, he was knocked overboard and drowned. Now, the Ocean "trolls" for landlubbers with that blue bottomed deadrise. Those who get too near or actually board the unattended boat are doomed to die at sea. I've got a buddy whose family has been in Poquoson for many generations. He always thought that story was silly. When his granddad died, and my buddy was helping go through granddads things, he came across some looseleaf paper between the pages of his Bible. It was a list of mens names, the date that they boarded the mysterious deadrise with the blue bottom, the date they died, and how. Of the 20 or so names, all of them died, at sea, within a year of running across and boarding that deadrise. By the way, isn't your Dagger blue????? Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>The cow, Billy, nor the woman were ever heard from again. Apparently, >this happened sometime in the late 1800's. I found the cow, so you can look for the lady in her night and "Billy." -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net Go Sea Kayaking!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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