Peter Staehling writes: > Boat US has a nice pair of Tasco Binoculars for a > great price right now. The local store didn't know > about the sale but honored it when I asked (and > insisted that they check the web page). I am very > happy with the purchase. I used to recommend these (Tasco Offshore 7x50) but I'm tempering my recommendation now. On my last paddling trip water got inside and rendered them useless. I'd used them for nature watching on day trips for a couple of years without problems, but the first time I really needed them...! -- mike ------------------------- Michael Edelman medelman_at_ameritech.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I may have tried to reply to this before but if so I guess [?] it didn't go through, so forgive me if this "repeats": I've been through this business of trying to find good inexpensive binoculars for YEARS, and I finally [after wasting more money on that fruitless quest than I'd have spent if I'd plunked down for a truly good pair in the first place] took the advice of a photographer friend of mine who told me to bite the bullet and spend the $$$ necessary to get a REALLY GOOD pair of binoculars. He told me that the reason so many inexpensive binoculars cause eye fatigue is poor optics. He said that truly good binoculars don't have to cost a fortune BUT inexpensive ones have poor quality optics. >From him I learned for example of the wonderful Pentax 8 X 40 DCF WP model, with superb optics for far less than German equivalents but, nonetheless, several hundred dollars. They are roof-prisms [someone here suggested that most roof-prism designs are waterproof; don't bet on it!] but not small and not waterproof. I use other binoculars when in my boats, a small waterproof roof-prism model from Brunton called the "Eterna," not great but OK optics and fairly inexpensive. When I want miniature binoculars with great optics I use a Leica 8 X 20 Trinovid; plentibucks but well worth it, useful for almost all purposes (but of course lacking the light-gathering ability of the Pentax) [it even comes in a waterproof model!]. All the ones I've mentioned have long eye relief as well. - Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Edelman" <mje_at_spamcop.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Tasco Binoculars > Peter Staehling writes: > > > Boat US has a nice pair of Tasco Binoculars for a > > great price right now. > > I used to recommend these (Tasco Offshore 7x50) but I'm tempering my > recommendation now. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "William Lloyd" <lloyd_at_execpc.com> > He said that truly good > binoculars don't have to cost a fortune BUT inexpensive ones have poor > quality optics. In general, this is true. However, years ago there were Russian made binocs that were a very good value and popular with astonomy buffs. They were sold under the Tento (?) name IIRC. I won't say that recent models under this name are any good (if they exist), but the stuff from the Soviet era were the ones that were good. If you find them second hand, they may be a bargain. > From him I learned for example of the wonderful Pentax 8 X 40 DCF WP model, [...] > I use a Leica 8 X 20 Trinovid; plentibucks but well worth it, useful for Names like Leica, Swarowski, Carton Alderblick and others make my wallet want to hide. If you compare these to run-of-the-mill brands like Tasco or Bushnell, the difference is obvious - the expensive ones are generally superb. I guess it comes down to the intended use. If you see yourself using them a lot for many things (birding, astronomy, nature in general etc), it's worth investing in quality and protecting the binocs when paddling. My use is occasional and I prefer to go with lower priced, waterproof and ruggedized models (mine's a Bushnell 8x21 or so) and not worry so much about loss or damage. It may be worth it for some to buy two pair - good ones that are protected and come out when it's safe and cheaper ones that sit on the deck or under the PFD for navigation and similar use. If that's the case, small cheap ones and larger good ones are my advice. 50mm objective lenses are great for low light use such as astronomy or under heavy forest canopies. My comments are just to those who may interpret the comments on quality as meaning that the cheap ones are worthless. Many are poor but some are good and more than adequate for occasional use. Check them out and try them outside the store with the glasses/contacts/sunglasses you use when paddling. As usual, it's just a case of caveat emptor. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There was a lot of chatter about good versus cheap optics here. There were a few points made that I would disagee with. The Tasco Offshore 21 Binoculars don't quite fall into the cheap category in my mind. They range from $120 to $200 when not on a closeout sale or something. I consider that the middle rather than the low price range. I find their performance to be very acceptable. Would I like to have a pair of Steiners, well sure, but at this point I would do without before spending that kind of money. Plus I would probably hesitate using them in a kayak. The really nice expensive brands are typically better than these Tascos, but some that cost a lot more aren't as good IMO. The mention of headaches etc. baffles me. I can't imagine anyone getting a headache from using these binoculars. To my eye they are bright and sharp. Twenty mm of eye relief is also quite adequate. If you use them heavily and for many hours and/or you are on an unlimited budget expensive ones may make sense, but I suspect that often it is the desire to own something of high quality that justifies these purchases rather than real need. I have seen similar purchases in other activities with other types of devices. People who can't hit the broad side of a barn often buy expensive firearms. People with a tin ear buy Bose speakers. When I raced Hare Scrambles, I always got a kick out of beating my buddies with their tricked out $$$ motorcycles on a basically stock rice burner. I also enjoyed bagging my limit of squirrells with a $40 opend sight Mossberg 22, while my buddies got skunked carrying a $500 rifle. If you want the best and can afford it that is great, but many find something like the Offshore 21 to be quite adequate. Pete __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just found an "adequate for kayaking" pair of glasses at West Marine. I normally use some very good waterproof Fujinons that cost an arm and a leg, but they are too big and bulky to use in the kayak. I found a pair of West Marine 8x26 waterproof glasses today at the "no tax" sale they are having. The strap will float the glasses and they have multi-coated lens and BAK 4 prisms. The eye relief is 17 mm but I found it is more comfortable to not roll the eye cups down and just sort of push my glasses up slightly. I paid $69 for these and for the price, they are very good for use in the kayak. Steve Holtzman Southern CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Staehling" <staehpj1_at_yahoo.com> > > The Tasco Offshore 21 Binoculars don't quite fall into > the cheap category in my mind. They range from $120 > to $200 when not on a closeout sale or something. I > consider that the middle rather than the low price > range. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Steve Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> > The eye relief is 17 mm but I found it > is more comfortable to not roll the eye cups down and just sort of push my > glasses up slightly. > I've noticed that there is considerable variation in the degree to which binocs are able to "overfocus". That is, the infinity point for someone with normal or corrected vision is not the end of travel for the focus control. They often focus past that point. That means that those of us that are nearsighted can sometimes focus past the normal infinity point and use them without glasses! Over the years I've found that most 7x50s seem to top out at correcting for something like a -3 or -4 diopter. I once tried a pair of 16x50s that corrected to about -6 and standard Carton Alderblick 10x40 (or so) that just barely made -6 (I require -6 so that's how I know - I once borrowed a pair of CAs on a beach in Baja for stargazing and with a little straining, had wonderful views of the southern sky that's not visible up here in the Great White North). I find that in the small aperature range of roughly 7x20 to 10x26, they tend to correct around -4 to -6. My Bushnell 8x25 Anglers are close to -6 so I can more or less use them without my glasses. Note that -6 is the extreme and -4 is more typical. I haven't found a strong correlation with anything that can guide you on how much correction you can expect, though magnification _seems_ to matter - the higher the magnification, the more correction possible as a crude rule of thumb. There may be an inverse correlation with price - the expensive binocs seem to have tight tolerances and don't often allow much focus beyond infinity (the CA example aside). This is definitely a YMMV situation. So, if you wear glasses, this might be an additional feature to look for when trying out binocs. If they can correct so that you can use them without glasses and you don't mind pushing your glasses up, the eye relief becomes less important. Significantly, if you want to use the binoculars for astronomy in the evenings, the ability to use them without glasses makes stray light much less of a problem. The latter is why I made this a priority for me (when paddling I use contact lenses, so correction is not an issue then). Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Three years ago I had Lasik surgery, just in time for my trip through the Grand Canyon. Small private group with small oar powered rafts, not a guided trip. That surgery ended years of inconvenience, fighting with glasses and contacts. I recommend it for nearsighted paddlers and almost anyone. BEST money I ever spent, but buying kayak is close second. Marsanne is, the infinity point for someone > with normal or corrected vision is not the end of travel for the focus > control. They often focus past that point. That means that those of us > that are nearsighted can sometimes focus past the normal infinity point > and use them without glasses! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My wife works with Ophthalmologists on a daily basis. When asked about any form of corrective surgery to the eye like Lasik or RK absolutely none of the Ophthalmologists will have it done on themselves. But they will perform it on others. Interesting. There is a bill board ad in town that cracks me up. It is for corrective eye surgery and the team of surgeons pictured all wear glasses. I have two friends who have had Lasik done. One in Canada and one in the US. Five years and no problems. Both had horrible vision and it did change their lives for the better. Jim et al ----- Original Message ----- From: "firefly" <firefly_at_eatel.net> > Three years ago I had Lasik surgery, just in time for my trip through the > Grand Canyon. Small private group with small oar powered rafts, not a guided > trip. That surgery ended years of inconvenience, fighting with glasses and > contacts. I recommend it for nearsighted paddlers and almost anyone. BEST > money I ever spent, but buying kayak is close second. Marsanne > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (i.e. headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com> > From: "Steve Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> > > > The eye relief is 17 mm but I found it > > is more comfortable to not roll the eye cups down and just sort of push my > > glasses up slightly. > > > I've noticed that there is considerable variation in the degree to which > binocs are able to "overfocus". That is, the infinity point for someone > with normal or corrected vision is not the end of travel for the focus > control. They often focus past that point. That means that those of us > that are nearsighted can sometimes focus past the normal infinity point > and use them without glasses! I hope I am not misunderstanding the post below but just as a precaution let me say that "eye relief" has NOTHING to do with how much correction there is ["diopters"] or how "far" the binoculars will focus, etc. "Eye relief" is the distance from the ocular lens [the one closest to the eye] to the point where the image is formed. [If you take your binoculars to a strong light-source and hold them with their objective lenses toward the light source and place a piece of paper so that the light from the light source that comes out the ocular lenses falls on the paper, and then move the paper back and forth until the image on the paper is in sharp focus, the distance from the paper to the ocular lens is the amount of "eye relief."] LONG "eye relief" [19 mm or more; the more the better] will allow the eyeglasses wearer to see THE ENTIRE FIELD OF VIEW; short eye relief causes one wearing eyeglasses to see a considerably NARROWED field of view. - Bill *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "William Lloyd" <lloyd_at_execpc.com> > From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com> > > From: "Steve Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> > > > > > The eye relief is 17 mm but I found it > > > is more comfortable to not roll the eye cups down and just sort of push my > > > glasses up slightly. > > > > > I've noticed that there is considerable variation in the degree to which > > binocs are able to "overfocus". That is, the infinity point for someone > > with normal or corrected vision is not the end of travel for the focus > > control. They often focus past that point. That means that those of us > > that are nearsighted can sometimes focus past the normal infinity point > > and use them without glasses! > > I hope I am not misunderstanding the post below but just as a precaution let > me say that "eye relief" has NOTHING to do with how much correction there is > ["diopters"] or how "far" the binoculars will focus, etc. No problem. My post was just to point out that there is an alternative to getting long eye relief and that is to find binocs that do not require the use of glasses (though I guess it's not that explicitly stated.) One problem with long eye relief is that the binoculars (or anything with an eyepiece) can be less easy to use without glasses. The glasses help hold the eyepiece at the correct distance. I've used telescope eyepieces where the exit pupil is hard to find and keep in your field of view without glasses due to the amount of eye relief. One manufacturer of telescope eyepieces sold two versions of the same eyepiece, one with and one without high eye relief so both eyeglass wearers and others could have the optimal version. In general, this is less of a problem with binocs, however, it you are getting binocs for yourself and your spouse and only one wears glasses, you may want to look into this. I have an old pair of high eye relief binocs that are annoying to use without glasses. These binocs have very deep eye cups that are used without glasses and can be rolled down for use with. They are so annoying that I regret ever buying them. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I do appreciate the point about finding the exit pupil when (a) not wearing glasses AND (b) not popping the rubber eyecups back up [but of course that's easy enough to do], but I think [although I could be wrong] that the factors pointed out ("overfocusing," "diopters"] CANNOT in any way compensate for short "eye relief"; that is, will not "restore" a normal [wide] field of view for people using glasses. (The reason to use glasses and long-eye-relief binoculars is of course only to avoid having to take off or push up one's glasses to use the scopes, and then reverse the process every time you put the scopes down, and so on.... If that fussiness doesn't bother you [it bothers ME a lot, including the fact that it makes for missing a lot of wildlife views!], by all means have "normal" scopes!!!) The only thing I, for one, know of that can even contribute toward compensating for short "eye relief" (for those wearing glasses while looking through their scopes) is an ultra-wide-angle lens set-up to start with---not easy to find in armored, waterproof binoculars, and nowhere near as effective as long eye-relief anyway. I would be pleased to learn if I am wrong about this... It took "forever" to get binocular makers and importers to give us a choice of waterproof binoculars with long eye-relief (many of us bombarded firms with that request for years!); if those who need 'em, don't buy 'em, that choice will disappear from the marketplace. (By the way, one of the early such choices was supposedly a pair from Cabella; I made the mistake of buying them, and their promised "long eye relief" was non-existent. This was before I learned that eye relief can and should be SPECIFIED by the seller! Remember: at least 19mm of eye relief, and more is better!) - Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tasco Binoculars > My post was just to point out that there is an alternative to getting long eye relief and that is to find binocs that do not require the use of glasses (though I guess it's not that explicitly stated.) > > One problem with long eye relief is that the binoculars (or anything with an eyepiece) can be less easy to use without glasses. The glasses help hold the eyepiece at the correct distance. I've used telescope eyepieces where the exit pupil is hard to find and keep in your field of view without glasses due to the amount of eye relief. ... > > In general, this is less of a problem with binocs, however, it you are getting binocs for yourself and your spouse and only one wears glasses, you may want to look into this. I have an old pair of high eye relief binocs that are annoying to use without glasses. These binocs have very deep eye cups that are used without glasses and can be rolled down for use with. They are so annoying that I regret ever buying them. > > Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Lloyd" <lloyd_at_execpc.com> > > > LONG "eye relief" [19 mm or more; the more the better] will allow the > > eyeglasses wearer to see THE ENTIRE FIELD OF VIEW; short eye relief causes > > one wearing eyeglasses to see a considerably NARROWED field of view. > > > > - Bill > Bill is absolutely correct in his post. My original message about the eye relief of the Tasco glasses had nothing to do with focus. My "normal" glasses are 7x50 Fujinons that I believe have 21mm of eye relief. With those glasses I keep the eye cups folded down so that they will allow me to put the eye pieces directly on my eyeglasses without scratching either--yet I can see the entire field of view. The Tascos, with their shorter eye relief do not allow me to see the entire field of view and that is why I mentioned it was easier to just push the glasses up and put the binoculars directly to my eye. As Bill said--eye relief has nothing to do with focus. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:32 PDT