Brian Curtiss <bc_at_asdi.com> wrote: >Thanks to all the advice from folks on Paddlewise, >the refurbishment of my 10 year old ocean cockpit >Pintail is coming along nicely. > When I try to lay back on the rear deck, >the sharp edge of the coaming cuts into my back > (the coaming is not recessed into the deck). >Any other (lest drastic) ideas would be appreciated. >I'm considering replacing the stock seat with one made from >minicell. The ocean cockpit pintail has pretty much the same height rear deck and rear of coaming as the keyhole cockpit version, but the keyhole is really good for laybacks and the ocean more of a pain. I don't think its the cockpit rim so much as the seat position - the rim of the keyhole cockpit is relatively further back from the seat giving more back clearance. The discomfort is compounded because the stock seat in the ocean cockpit is angled with the back of the seat somewhat lower than the front. I would first try padding out the rear of the seat pan to raise it up and see if this helps, if it doesn't a foam seat might be the way to go, and as someone said try it first higher than the stock seat (better forward paddling ergonomics and more responsive but tippier if you can't sit it) but I would also experiment with the seat further forward. Experience with my pintail is that it is relatively insensitive to trim, and particularly if you are reasonably light moving it forward an inch or two shouldn't mess the handling too much. FWIW I designed and built a stitch and glue greenlandy sort of boat a couple of years back (http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~ltu006/images/kayak/stitchnglue/index.htm), and exactly modelled the cockpit on the pintail ocean cockpit - with the exception that the boat is lower volume and I put the seat an inch or so closer to the front of the coaming - rolling and getting on the rear deck is really easy for me in this boat. Cheers Colin Calder 57º19'N 2º10'W *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Brian Curtiss <bc_at_asdi.com> wrote: >> I had i[my Pintail] out this weekend and everything fit well --- except the coaming behind the seat. When I try to lay back on the rear deck, the sharp edge of the coaming cuts into my back [snip] I'm considering grinding away the hard 90 degree edge of the coaming (at the back of the cockpit) and then fiberglassing over the area to create more of a 45 degree bevel. Also, I'm considering replacing the stock seat with one made from minicell. When I do this, I'd like to lower the seat a bit as well but this would make laybacks even harder given the current state of the coaming. >> I doubt a 45 degree bevel will be satisfactory, although it will certainly help. Modifying the coaming for laybacks could be a big job. To really lower it, you might have to cut just behind the coaming's outer edge, and maybe two inches behind the coaming, running the cut up the sides a ways. Then push the coaming down to where you want it, and glass over the inside of the cockpit where youmade the cuts. A couple layers of 6 oz cloth and epoxy may not be enough. You might need some roving in there to beef it up, because the rear of the coaming takes quite a beating in self-rescues, etc. I would not attempt this, but if you really want laybacks, something like it is needed. As for the seat, yeah, if you lower your sitting position, you'll exacerbate the coaming situation. However, lowering your center of gravity really enhances stability ... and a minicell seat can be incredibly comfy. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Brian Curtiss <bc_at_asdi.com> wrote: > I had [my Pintail] out this weekend and everything fit well --- > except the coaming behind the seat. When I try to lay back on the > rear deck, the sharp edge of the coaming cuts into my back I've only paddled a Pintail once, but I don't remember a layback being a problem. It rolled like a charm. Have you moved the seat aft or lowered it? Something seems odd here, but I don't know what it is. I wouldn't recommend cutting until you've checked other outfitting or adjustment options. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hope you don't mind my leaving all the previous posts in to assure adequate reference.... Brian, before you try altering the coaming, I would suggest RAISING your seat (i.e., with foam). This would certainly make it possible to lay back further. Raising the seat would indeed decrease your intitial stability, but you'll get used to that quickly. It will also make the already responsive Pintail even more responsive to edging and leaning -- which might well add to your enjoyment! Bob V > Brian Curtiss <bc_at_asdi.com> wrote: > > >> I had i[my Pintail] out this weekend and everything fit well --- except > the > coaming behind the seat. When I try to lay back on the rear deck, > the sharp edge of the coaming cuts into my back [snip] > I'm considering grinding away the hard 90 degree edge of the coaming > (at the back of the cockpit) and then fiberglassing over the area to > create more of a 45 degree bevel. > Also, I'm considering replacing the stock seat with one made from > minicell. When I do this, I'd like to lower the seat a bit as well > but this would make laybacks even harder given the current state of > the coaming. >> > > I doubt a 45 degree bevel will be satisfactory, although it will certainly > help. > > Modifying the coaming for laybacks could be a big job. To really lower it, > you might have to cut just behind the coaming's outer edge, and maybe two > inches behind the coaming, running the cut up the sides a ways. Then push > the coaming down to where you want it, and glass over the inside of the > cockpit where youmade the cuts. A couple layers of 6 oz cloth and epoxy may > not be enough. You might need some roving in there to beef it up, because > the rear of the coaming takes quite a beating in self-rescues, etc. I would > not attempt this, but if you really want laybacks, something like it is > needed. > > As for the seat, yeah, if you lower your sitting position, you'll exacerbate > the coaming situation. However, lowering your center of gravity really > enhances stability ... and a minicell seat can be incredibly comfy. > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:29 AM 5/14/03 -0400, Bob Volin wrote: >Hope you don't mind my leaving all the previous posts in to assure adequate >reference.... > >Brian, before you try altering the coaming, I would suggest RAISING your >seat (i.e., with foam). This would certainly make it possible to lay back >further. Raising the seat would indeed decrease your intitial stability, >but you'll get used to that quickly. It will also make the already >responsive Pintail even more responsive to edging and leaning -- which might >well add to your enjoyment! As an alternative, if the seat is replaced with minicell foam, moving it forward (which will affect the trim) will also make it easier to layback. If the rear portion of the cockpit combing is right up against the seat you need to raise the seat quite a bit so that you're back clears the edge of the combing. When building my Outer Island I cut the hole for the cockpit such that the combing was 4" or so from where I'd be sitting. Then I made a ramp of minicell from the back of the seat to the cockpit combing. The result is that I can lay back without the cockit combing interfereing. I can actually put my head on the rear deck without lifting my butt from the seat. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Brian, You can do anything you want to with an Ocean Cockpit..including...removing it! ;) See: http://www.geocities.com/shawnkayak/selkie/ Of course, if that is too drastic, yet you don't mind fiberglass work, I'd recommend making the existing coaming recessed, instead of simply grinding the edge. Cut the coaming away from the boat about 1" outside the edge of the outside of the coaming lip. Cut another 1" ring out of the deck. Use hot glue and wood blocks to glue the coaming in its new position. Glue some small wood blocks to form the new slope of the recess (see: http://www.geocities.com/shawnkayak/cormorant/#deck recess) [or, more ambitious glassers could simply drape cloth] between the cutout and the inset coaming. Glass inside and out. Paint. enjoy! Shawn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Why does it sound easy when you say it? Confidence is everything.... Feeling just a little bit jealous ( said in Dr Evil's voice). Jim et al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Baker" <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> > Cut the coaming away from the boat about 1" outside the edge of the > outside of the coaming lip. Cut another 1" ring out of the deck. Use > hot glue and wood blocks to glue the coaming in its new position. > Shawn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>You can do anything you want to with an Ocean >Cockpit..including...removing it! ;) I the short time I've had the boat, I've grown to appreciate the ocean cockpit. Sure, it takes a bit more practice getting in and out, but I find it much more comfortable than the enormous cockpit of my previous boat (a CD Storm). With the Storm (and many of the other large cockpit boat I've tried), my legs are spread quite wide (about 14"). This (or other fit issues) has always resulted in my left lower leg going numb within about an hour. In the Pintail with ocean cockpit, my knees are only about 8" and I have yet to experience this problem. Brian *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn Baker wrote: >Cut the coaming away from the boat about 1" outside the edge of the >outside of the coaming lip. Cut another 1" ring out of the deck. Use >hot glue and wood blocks to glue the coaming in its new position. > >Glue some small wood blocks to form the new slope of the recess (see: >http://www.geocities.com/shawnkayak/cormorant/#deck recess) [or, more >ambitious glassers could simply drape cloth] between the cutout and the >inset coaming. Glass inside and out. Paint. enjoy! Sounds like a great winter project. I'll try the hard foam build-up as a temporary fix for now. Thanks, Brian *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:31 AM 5/14/03 -0600, Brian Curtiss wrote: >Shawn Baker wrote: >>Cut the coaming away from the boat about 1" outside the edge of the >>outside of the coaming lip. Cut another 1" ring out of the deck. Use >>hot glue and wood blocks to glue the coaming in its new position. >> >>Glue some small wood blocks to form the new slope of the recess (see: >>http://www.geocities.com/shawnkayak/cormorant/#deck recess) [or, more >>ambitious glassers could simply drape cloth] between the cutout and the >>inset coaming. Glass inside and out. Paint. enjoy! > >Sounds like a great winter project. I'll try the hard foam build-up as a >temporary fix for now. I share the same appreciation for the ocean cockpit (I've got one in my FG VCP Skerray). Where your knees rest seems to be a personal preference thing. Some people like to have their knees spread out so that they make contact with the boat on the sides of the hull, while other like to have contact from the inside of the knees. As another winter project you might want to take a look at the "Making a Kayak Knee Tube" article on the CLC site (www.clcboats.com) on the Spring Newsletter page. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 15 May 2003 10:35:11 +0100, "Colin Calder" <c.j.calder_at_abdn.ac.uk> said: > FWIW I designed and built a stitch and glue greenlandy sort of boat a > couple > of years back > (http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~ltu006/images/kayak/stitchnglue/index.htm), and > exactly modelled the cockpit on the pintail ocean cockpit - with the > exception that the boat is lower volume It certainly appears to be lower volume, in your picture with the Nordkapp the nordkapp looks huge ;-> -- Kirk Olsen kork4_at_cluemail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
While I think the "No Fear" tee-shirts from the mid-90s were silly, and a poor description of sea kayaking "Healthy fear" I would wear....I think "no fear" should apply to modification and construction projects. Everything is a progression of simple steps. If it's too frustrating, walk away from it for an hour, a week, a month. Everything is fixable, even mistakes. practice doesn't hurt! Shawn jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net wrote: >Why does it sound easy when you say it? Confidence is everything.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:10:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Coaming modification >While I think the "No Fear" tee-shirts...(snip)... Everything is fixable, even mistakes.< Yeah, but I'd like a tee-shirt with a picture of Duane on it holding his drill, with the caption "fear this!" Inside joke, pardon the pun. :-) Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Doug Lloyd > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 10:13 PM > Yeah, but I'd like a tee-shirt with a picture of Duane on it > holding his drill, with the caption "fear this!" > > Inside joke, pardon the pun. :-) If you have ever paddled with Duane, you'd know that he paddles fast enough that the holes act as self draining scuppers--and that's while he is holding one of his homemade power bars (bricks actually) in his non-control hand and eating. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > Yeah, but I'd like a tee-shirt with a picture of Duane on it > > holding his drill, with the caption "fear this!" I was just looking at those holes and reminiscing the other day! Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
And a picture of a brand new glass boat shirking in fear in the corner of the shop! Shawn --- Doug Lloyd <dalloyd_at_telus.net> wrote: > I'd like a tee-shirt with a picture of Duane on it holding > his drill, with the caption "fear this!" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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