Brad said: >Looks like a trip to Quatsino Sound, northern end of Vancouver Island, is in the works. Any advice on where to launch, what to see, what to do (or not do), where to camp would be appreciated.< In the past folks have often asked about this area in relation to wildlife issues. I've usually responded that there weren't any real problems; but lately, more stories are coming back about wildlife encounters. Bears are getting more persistent in the area, as are cougars. So, just be a little extra caution with foodstuffs, etc. Also, generally wildlife in the campsite causing problems are rare while campers are in their tents -- if proper precautions have been followed. However, if anything tries to get into a tent, fight back to the death (well, mice aside). Attacks outside the tent/ on the trail/ on the beach are dealt with differently. If a creature wants in your tent, it wants you! BTW, Bigfoot has made headlines here on Vancouver Island again, but it is graduation time too. If Bigfoot is real, and if he/she/it should try to enter your tent, especially in Spring and you are multi-day trip smelly, and there is a romantic look in the creatures face, perhaps resistance isn't futile. :-) Soap helps. Question to paddlewisers: has anyone ever experimented/built/ found out about modifying 12-gauge flare guns to shoot "bear bangers?" (noise makers). Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 17 Jun 2003 at 22:51, Doug Lloyd wrote: > Question to paddlewisers: has anyone ever experimented/built/ found > out about modifying 12-gauge flare guns to shoot "bear bangers?" > (noise makers). No, but I'd like to know of a source for a pistol-style launcher rather than a pen-style launcher for bear bangers. MEC has a pen- style kit that comes with both flares and bear bangers, but I'd like something less flimsy - ideal: a "double barreled" pistol that can take one flare and one b-b at the same time. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 06:51, Doug Lloyd wrote: > Brad said: > >Looks like a trip to Quatsino Sound, northern end of Vancouver Island, is > in the works. Any advice on where to launch, what to see, what to do (or not > do), where to camp would be appreciated.< > > In the past folks have often asked about this area in relation to wildlife > issues. I've usually responded that there weren't any real problems; but > lately, more stories are coming back about wildlife encounters. Bears are > getting more persistent in the area, as are cougars. So, just be a little > extra caution with foodstuffs, etc. Also, generally wildlife in the campsite > causing problems are rare while campers are in their tents -- if proper > precautions have been followed. However, if anything tries to get into a > tent, fight back to the death (well, mice aside). Attacks outside the tent/ > on the trail/ on the beach are dealt with differently. If a creature wants > in your tent, it wants you! > > BTW, Bigfoot has made headlines here on Vancouver Island again, but it is > graduation time too. If Bigfoot is real, and if he/she/it should try to > enter your tent, especially in Spring and you are multi-day trip smelly, and > there is a romantic look in the creatures face, perhaps resistance isn't > futile. :-) Soap helps. > > Question to paddlewisers: has anyone ever experimented/built/ found out > about modifying 12-gauge flare guns to shoot "bear bangers?" (noise makers). > > Doug Lloyd > Victoria BC > Noise makers?? a 12 ga?? Its called loading with 00 buck then slug then buck then slug.. Dont mess with a brown bear/griz... unless you feel like its your time. One can never tell what a bear will do, if its not accustomed to people.. And making a noise, then running will get you nailed in a heartbeat. Tis simple, avoid as much as possible. And if you cant avid them .. retreat slowly... and forget the "noise maker" Bears can be understood... but they cant be predicted... > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I don't think firepower is the answer here. It is well documented that making loud noises is very effective at scaring away wildlife. The odds are much greater that you will shoot yourself or somebody else rather than be attacked by an animal. Is it just me or is the thought of a bunch of gun toting kayakers scary as hell? I'd rather take my chances with the bears and cougars. Keep a clean campsite, secure your food and if needed use bear bangers or bang a pot. If you come up to Canada leave your guns at home, they are not welcome over our borders. Steve Davis Victoria *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[ Moderator - with this post we have "both" sides of the issue - back to paddling. ] On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 20:27, Davis, Stephen G FOR:EX wrote: > I don't think firepower is the answer here. It is well documented that > making loud noises is very effective at scaring away wildlife. The odds are > much greater that you will shoot yourself or somebody else rather than be > attacked by an animal. Is it just me or is the thought of a bunch of gun > toting kayakers scary as hell? I'd rather take my chances with the bears and > cougars. Keep a clean campsite, secure your food and if needed use bear > bangers or bang a pot. > > If you come up to Canada leave your guns at home, they are not welcome over > our borders. > > Steve Davis > Victoria > 35 years living in remote AK under my belt.Though not now. Your theory dont hold up.. Even the F&G boys doing the fish counts carry buck over slug loads A "clean" camp may work well for bears that have been around people. Dont depend on it in the Bush... Nor noise makers, a wilderness bear will pay no heed... Let me clue you in... Hunting in Canada is legal via permit. Subsistance People/Homesteads and Native allottment holders also can have firearms.. Its the "general " hikers ect ect that are not. Try staying 6 months in a bush camp, without a firearm..... might be interesting.. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I'd rather take my chances with the bears and >cougars. Keep a clean campsite, secure your food and if needed use bear >bangers or bang a pot. > >If you come up to Canada leave your guns at home, they are not welcome over >our borders. What is a bear? Best Regards, Rafael Mexico *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Some of the recoil on guns can be pretty big. <irony>Can you use a shotgun to roll with after the recoil lands you upside down in your boat?</irony> Lisa PS Has anybody read "Bears Discover Fire," a short story collected in a book of the same name by Terry Bisson? Bears get much smarter and start living in small camps on highway medians, lighting campfires at night and eating the fruit of a "super-plant" called the newberry. Very witty. ______________________________ lisa_at_cadence90.com bikes, books, internet radio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 23:14, Rafael Mier Maza wrote: > > I'd rather take my chances with the bears and > >cougars. Keep a clean campsite, secure your food and if needed use bear > >bangers or bang a pot. > > What is a bear? > > Rafael > Mexico Its a Chupacabra with a real bad attitude *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You said (snip): >Noise makers?? a 12 ga?? ...Bears can be understood... but they cant be predicted...< 1. Just a reminder to the list that the subject of firearms are not welcome on this list. 2. We don't have Grizzly Bears on Vancouver Island and Haida Gwaii. Good news for sojourners. 3. My advise to fight back with all your resources if an animal enters your tent was a sincere comment. I doubt highly this will ever be a problem though. 4. My request for information on noise making devices was not necessarily in context of the thread, but merely a sincere desire for information. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:18:50 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <dalloyd_at_telus.net> said: > 1. Just a reminder to the list that the subject of firearms are not > welcome on this list. Thanks Doug. Firearms are on the filter lists, they were there when I took over the list and they will remain there as long as I'm "in charge". Short "how can I" discussions, which have a paddling context, will get through, with every post being manually approved. Posts which are not paddling related or head off into the great firearm debate will disappear. I have zero interest in letting a "religious" war break out between the full range of opinions from "no guns ever" to "carry a gun at all times". There are other avenues of discussion for those who care to debate the merits of firearms. Kirk -- Kirk Olsen kork4_at_cluemail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bears are a relevant subject to kayaking, and firearms are a relevant subject when dealing with bears. Black bear attacks are virtually always for food. You as the food, not the food you brought to eat. If you are attacked, the advice is to fight for your life because if you loose, you die. If a grizzly attacks during the day, it is likely a turf fight or a surprise and protecting vital areas while playing dead can save your bacon. At night, such as when you are in your tent, you're on the menu. Fight for your life or die, but without something more substantial than a noise maker or pepper spray, good luck to you. My personal experience has been limited to one handful of experiences, and only with "black" bears. The most educational (and frightening) was on a backpacking trip into the Sierras (California) in mid June a few years ago. Vickie and I were hiking up a fairly wide valley when Vickie said: "Look at that horse". She had the size correct, but it was no horse. About 75 meters away was a "black" bear, obviously a male, that was larger than I thought black bears could grow to be. It was also not black, but brown, with a large head and fur that strongly reminded me a grizzly bear. If I had not been taught that grizzlies were exterminated from California, I would have identified this bear as a small grizzly without hesitation. -I always carry my 357 mag on backpacking trips just in case of an unfortunate encounter with unruly humans or pugnacious large animals. In my younger days I carried it in a shoulder holster so it would be readily accessible. After years of never having to even remove it from the holster, I decided on this trip to carry it inside my pack, and only get it out after making camp- Anyway, I said "that's not a horse, it's a bear". He was facing away from us munching berries like there was no tomorrow. He had a clear and easy path for escape in every direction. I know the drill - clap your hands, or make some other noise to warn of your presence so as not to surprise them up close, and they will flee in terror. I clapped my hands several times. The bear turned to look at us. He didn't turn his head; he turned his whole body to face us. I'm definitely no bear expert, but I know the difference between fear and aggression. It was a showdown - eye to eye. Clearly he was struggling with a decision of whether to attack or run. It must have been a hard decision for him because it took an uncomfortably long time. I was hoping he would blink first, because he was wisely wearing his weapons on the outside, while mine was foolishly buried in my pack. I kept clapping when the first volley didn't work. My main thoughts were about how to get out my gun, aim, and fire, all in the 3 seconds it would take him to cover that 75 meters if he decided to charge. That was just impossible so I kept eye contact and tried to look big, even though at that moment I felt smaller and weaker than ever before. Eventually he ran and we started breathing again. Had I been able to reach my gun, I would have drew it (for the first time in 20+ years of backpacking) and aimed, but not fired. Had the bear charged I would have fired, and contrary to some recent opinions, all 6 rounds would have went into the bear and none into Vickie or me. I'll never be caught off guard like that again. I have yet to kayak camp in bear country, but when I do you can bet I'll bring the appropriate size firearm for whatever sized bears happen to reside in that area. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- ...... 1. Just a reminder to the list that the subject of firearms are not welcome on this list. ...... 3. My advise to fight back with all your resources if an animal enters your tent was a sincere comment. I doubt highly this will ever be a problem though. .... Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 20 Jun 2003 at 7:41, Steve Brown wrote: > Bears are a relevant subject to kayaking, and firearms are a relevant > subject when dealing with bears. Black bear attacks are virtually > always for food. You as the food, not the food you brought to eat. If you were a writer for a supermarket tabloid, I'd say - good show. However, as a useful post, this contains too much hyperbole and nonsense. Sorry for the bluntness, but I and another fifty-odd members of my kayak club just finished a weekend of fun and frolic kayaking at a waterfront campsite in the Parry Island First Nations reserve three hours north of Toronto ON. There was a black bear at the campsite - no one was eaten, nothing was shot and everyone had a good time. Even Bert, my fellow club-director's Doberman-Aussie Sheepdog mix was more interested in the chipmunks than the bear. Predatory bear behavior is rare and most bear attacks have nothing to do with them wanting to eat anyone. In fact most "attacks" are bluff charges - a bear's way of saying "go away this is my territory". (Polar bears are the exception - but few of us are lucky enough to paddle in polar bear territory). Algonquin Provincial Park, a few hours drive from where we were, has one of the highest rates of predatory bear attacks recorded in North America. At last count, there were three (3) such attacks in the last 100 years IIRC. _All_ the interesting kayaking and canoeing areas around here are in bear country. I still don't carry a gun, bear bangers or even bear spray. I consider myself lucky if I even see a bear. I _have_ been eye-to-eye with a bear and, while my heart rate certainly climbed, I suffered no scratches, bites or missing body parts. What I did see was how fast a bear can run - in the opposite direction. Go on kayaking, keep a clean campsite and don't stress out over bears. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I didn't mean to infer that being eaten by a black bear is a frequent occurrence. What I said was that what I have read is that Black Bear attacks, when they occur, are usually to eat you. I think this is a generally accepted fact about black bears because the web site quoted on a later post says this: "In the unlikely event a black bear attacks you (meaning he thinks you are prey)" That web site (http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/wlm/game/blkbear/blkbear4.htm)also has a hodge-podge of solutions to avoiding attack and surviving attack which seem to contradict one-another. They say avoid eye contact to avoid a charge, presumably so you won't look threatening (I think that's good advice for a Griz), but then wave your arms, look big and tall like a human so you will look threatening. Also on surviving an attack, they start with fighting back aggressively, but then say if the attack continues to play dead. Playing dead sounds like an invitation to be eaten immediately to me. Here is another web site by the Government of the Northwest Territories which is surprisingly firearm centric in its approach to dealing with attack. There seems to be other links on the page with information about avoiding trouble. www.nwtwildlife.rwed.gov.nt.ca/Publications/safetyinbearcountry/attacks. htm Anyway, I include the link because it makes a very clear distinction between black and grizzly intentions when they attack. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- ........ There was a black bear at the campsite - no one was eaten, nothing was shot and everyone had a good time...... Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Brown wrote: > I didn't mean to infer that being eaten by a black bear is a frequent > occurrence. That reminds me of one of my favorite parts of Bill Bryson's _A Walk in the Woods_ (Broadway Books, 1998). After discussing Herrero's book at length he says: "Black bears rarely attack. But here's the thing. Sometimes they do. All bears are cunning agile, and immensely strong, and they are always hungry. If they want to kill you and eat you, they can...That doesn't happen often, but--and here is the absolutely salient point--once would be enough." -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 23 Jun 2003 at 12:59, Steve Brown wrote: > I didn't mean to infer that being eaten by a black bear is a frequent > occurrence. What I said was that what I have read is that Black Bear > attacks, when they occur, are usually to eat you. I think this is a > generally accepted fact about black bears because the web site quoted > on a later post says this: "In the unlikely event a black bear attacks > you (meaning he thinks you are prey)" That's not the way your post comes across. Furthermore, the use of the term "attacks" can be misleading. Taking that quote out of context implies that if they come after you, the intent is to eat you (prey). > That web site > (http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/wlm/game/blkbear/blkbear4.htm)also has a > hodge-podge of solutions to avoiding attack and surviving attack which > seem to contradict one-another. They say avoid eye contact to avoid a > charge, presumably so you won't look threatening (I think that's good > advice for a Griz), Never stare at any animal unless you want it to think you are a threat. Bert, the dog I mentioned in my previous response, was one who was friendly as heck once introduced, but at one point while playing with him, I stared him down and the Doberman in him started to show. I quickly switched to a different form of interaction. (http://members.rogers.com/michaeldaly/images/bertAndElke.jpg Elke in the green tee and Bert (7 mo. old) on one end of the leash. Don't know the guy on the other end) > but then wave your arms, look big and tall like a > human so you will look threatening. They are afraid of humans, but it's looking big that really does the trick. They size up the competition before acting. > Also on surviving an attack, they > start with fighting back aggressively, but then say if the attack > continues to play dead. Playing dead sounds like an invitation to be > eaten immediately to me. This is muddled advice on that web site. If the bear is threatened enough to attack, playing dead will usually make it stop (e.g. see the online story about the woman who lost both arms to a bear while conducting wildlife research in Alaska - every time she moved, the attack continued, when she stopped, the bear stopped.) If the bear is exhibiting predatory behavior that means it considers you lunch and you should fight back and not stop. The order is - assume it's merely threatened and play dead. If the attack doesn't stop relatively soon, fight like hell. If you're injured, doing this (either playing dead or fighting) is extremely difficult. > Here is another web site by the Government of > the Northwest Territories which is surprisingly firearm centric in its > approach to dealing with attack. There seems to be other links on the > page with information about avoiding trouble. > www.nwtwildlife.rwed.gov.nt.ca/Publications/safetyinbearcountry/attack > s. htm Anyway, I include the link because it makes a very clear > distinction between black and grizzly intentions when they attack. Those who live in the wilderness in NWT, Yukon and Nunavut are likely to carry a gun much of the time (rifle or shotgun - comment on pistols removed by moderator). They have a different frame of mind in the north (drinking and driving - that is: bottle in hand - was legal up there when I was younger). This site also doesn't distinguish well between aggressive charges and predatory behavior on the part of a black bear. An aggressive charge can include a head butt (which can break bones and knock you down) or a swipe with a paw (ditto with claw cuts added). That doesn't make it predatory. An old, male fighter will be more aggressive than a younger bear with less of an attitude. This adds a margin of unpredictability to the situation. Lots of paddlers travel through the north and rarely carry guns. When I did the Nahanni, we saw several bears and a few in the group had bear spray. Friends of mine have done lots of other rivers in the north (Mountain, Coppermine, Yukon etc) and the rules of the south apply. One advantage in the north is that the bears are much less likely to be habituated to humans so are easier to deal with. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I concur with Michael Daly. In the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, where contact between black bears and humans is an everyday occurence, the last two predatory attacks on humans by black bears that I know of were roughly 50 years apart, and an autopsy of the second bear revealed that it might have attacked only because it was starving due to plastic trash blocking its digestive tract. I think one's odds of dying on the highway on the way to the BWCAW are greater than that of being attacked by a predatory black bear in the BWCAW. BTW, the person who was attacked by the second bear a few years ago survived the encounter, though he was bitten around the head. The bear was beaten off with a canoe paddle by the man's son. Most bear "attacks" in the BWCAW are really just bluffing attacks, as Michael pointed out, or the bears cuffing people who come too close to them. I made over 45 trips to the BWCAW, and had a bear in camp only once. Never carried a gun, though I did carry some pepper spray for a while that I never used. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/18/2003 5:32:05 PM Central Daylight Time, sildriel_at_ciateq.net.mx writes: > What is a bear? > A hairy crocodile. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: June 19, 2003 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Subject: Quatsino Sound > In a message dated 6/18/2003 5:32:05 PM Central Daylight Time, > sildriel_at_ciateq.net.mx writes: > > > > What is a bear? > > > A hairy crocodile. > > Rob G A hairy crocodile that can climb trees and runs faster than dog. Alex. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I appreciate firearms. I own several. I believe a .357 is too small a gun to use even on black bears. I think carrying a bigger "cannon" which would be effective is too heavy to really carry consistently. There are far too many old Western stories about people being attacked by wounded bears. A .357 is going to do a pretty good job of consistenly wounding a bear, and not more. Bears have huge heart and lung capacities. Placing a lethal shot might still result in a bear that still has 15-20 seconds of remaining strength, and I shudder to think of what a POed bear will do in 20 seconds. Bears also have thick skulls. I can go into a little more graphic detail off-channel. So..I stick to bear spray, and practice "bear smart" fieldcraft. Shawn Northwest Montana "Steve Brown" <steve_at_brown-web.net> - -I always carry my 357 mag on backpacking trips just in case of an unfortunate encounter with unruly humans or pugnacious large animals. I'll never be caught off guard like that again. I have yet to kayak camp in bear country, but when I do you can bet I'll bring the appropriate size firearm for whatever sized bears happen to reside in that area. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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